Celestalon's take on Hunter mobility

[Rackfu]

There was a graph not long ago which showed which classes were boosted the most to level 90.
Warlock was on the top wonder why...

Maybe because prior to the free 90 deal, Warlocks were one of the least represented classes at level 90 with only Rogue, Shaman, and Monks (which are a brand new class) behind them.

It's possible that combined with them being the Flavor of the Month, most people don't have a Warlock at 90.

[Illana]

I think we do

We can handle slimes on immerseus better than most casters

We can stun bonecrushers immediately as they charge with binding shot, and kill totems near instantly after they spawn

We can completely avoid large damange aoe like high% calamity with garrote+debuff+sear, shock pulse, sha's swelling if you have debuff, etc

We can perma slow assassins / spinny guys on nazgrim

We can soak orbs in malk p2 longer than other classes with 2x detter

We can swap to sparks more easily than casters on spoils

dps without any issue on thok

do belts arguably better than any other class

cc parasites and avoid aim on paragons

soak malice the best

I would call that unique and or arguably much better than a lot of other ranged dps utility

slimes on immerseus? Please. Destro lock, boomkins, ele shaman are so much better.

bonecrushers, again many classes handle them better. Shadowfury, typhoon, thunderstorm, charge, grip, stuns. Binding shit has such a long cd compared to some of those, what if they fracture twice? Totems? Lol, fel flame, ice lance, moonfire, earth shock, all better since those don't have a resource cost.

so can other classes. Rogue, monk, paladin, spriest, dk all handle that particular situation you gave better.

im pretty sure every class in the game can permanently slow something except spriest, boomkins and ele and a lot of them don't require a global to do so.

Orb soaking can be done with a rogue with burst and cloak, pals with bubble and speed of light, dispersion. It's not the sole of job of hunters even though we theoretically are best for the job.

i don't understand why people still think casters have more penalty than hunters from target switching. Tbh most casters have less to worry about when target switching compared to hunters.

dps on thok. Yet none of the top parses are hunters, why is that?

belts are done fine by most melee, locks, boomkins, ele shamans. Only thing hunters can do better is disengaging onto the belt which locks can port on as well.

cc parasites? Is that even necessary? Aim I'll give you that one.

[anjan011]

slimes on immerseus? Please. Destro lock, boomkins, ele shaman are so much better.

bonecrushers, again many classes handle them better. Shadowfury, typhoon, thunderstorm, charge, grip, stuns. Binding shit has such a long cd compared to some of those, what if they fracture twice? Totems? Lol, fel flame, ice lance, moonfire, earth shock, all better since those don't have a resource cost.

so can other classes. Rogue, monk, paladin, spriest, dk all handle that particular situation you gave better.

im pretty sure every class in the game can permanently slow something except spriest, boomkins and ele and a lot of them don't require a global to do so.

Orb soaking can be done with a rogue with burst and cloak, pals with bubble and speed of light, dispersion. It's not the sole of job of hunters even though we theoretically are best for the job.

i don't understand why people still think casters have more penalty than hunters from target switching. Tbh most casters have less to worry about when target switching compared to hunters.

dps on thok. Yet none of the top parses are hunters, why is that?

belts are done fine by most melee, locks, boomkins, ele shamans. Only thing hunters can do better is disengaging onto the belt which locks can port on as well.

cc parasites? Is that even necessary? Aim I'll give you that one.

On Immersius slime how are destro/shamans any better than hunters? these slimes have low enough health that they melt anyway. with beast cleave and cloak, they go away pretty quick, much quicker than destro lock/shamans. because they have to cast. We hunters got in insta. Quick kill and move on.

Sure some of the other DPS classes can have perma slow. but with trade off. like for DK, u need to get chilblain, thats a waste of talent slot. only for the purpose of slowing down.this certainly isn't better than just wasting a global.

Target switching hurts casters greatly. Its common sense. while target switching we can insta switch and start opening with insta casts like Arcane shot. By the time casters resume to new target, we will have 2 AS fired already.

Regarding Thok, raidbot says, for 10H SV hunters r on top, on 25H Affliction warlocks r on top, SV r on 3rd, closely following Destro.

Yes CC on parasites is very much necessery, unless u overgear it greatly and kill them in 5 secs. each parasite is like a ticking dot to its target, so one disabled is one less dot.

[Deleted]

I love how our Warrior Forum is probably the most calm atm o.O Seeing how you Guys get upset about that shit.. sorry, I know it's bad, but "It's Alpha". Other Classes lose and gain shit. Change is change, either like it or not. Up until now we know a lot. But Warriors atm still don't know if the fucking Crit dependancy gets cut. Or if we get crit off of Str or something like that. Every Class atm doesn't know a whole lot of what's going on. Until Beta there really isn't anything to discuss in such a big way like you do right here, right now.^^ They'll sure as hell balance it out.

But to add something to the discussion: What Utility do you even need? You are a Range-Class that has the Benefits of a Melee Class AND a Pet. You honestly don't even need any more utility than that. That's just outright delusional. But I guess it's a normal Forum thing. Every Class wants to have the "Utility" of being the sole King of DPS.^^

[Deleted]

I love how our Warrior Forum is probably the most calm atm o.O Seeing how you Guys get upset about that shit.. sorry, I know it's bad, but "It's Alpha". Other Classes lose and gain shit. Change is change, either like it or not. Up until now we know a lot. But Warriors atm still don't know if the fucking Crit dependancy gets cut. Or if we get crit off of Str or something like that. Every Class atm doesn't know a whole lot of what's going on. Until Beta there really isn't anything to discuss in such a big way like you do right here, right now.^^ They'll sure as hell balance it out.

But to add something to the discussion: What Utility do you even need? You are a Range-Class that has the Benefits of a Melee Class AND a Pet. You honestly don't even need any more utility than that. That's just outright delusional. But I guess it's a normal Forum thing. Every Class wants to have the "Utility" of being the sole King of DPS.^^

lol pet such utilities

When people talk of utility, they speak of raid utility. Banners/Defensive CD's/Gateways/Roars etc. Not sure why that has to be pointed out but alright. You talk of a pet like it's actually an advantage. Buffs don't matter in 25 man, they won't either in 20 man. The only utility a pet can bring is AoE sunder(which is going in WoD), and again, that's not really the kind of utility people are talking about. That's like saying warriors bring utility 'cos devastate. A pet is a burden the majority of the time. Yes we get the benefit of a melee class while being ranged. Explain how that is utility towards the raid. You can use a pair of two-handed swords. Guess that's utility too.

[clevin]

I love how our Warrior Forum is probably the most calm atm o.O Seeing how you Guys get upset about that shit.. sorry, I know it's bad, but "It's Alpha".

Well, fuck, let's close down the forums then. I mean if we can't talk about anything until it's live we don't need the forum, right?

Other Classes lose and gain shit. Change is change, either like it or not. Up until now we know a lot. But Warriors atm still don't know if the fucking Crit dependancy gets cut. Or if we get crit off of Str or something like that. Every Class atm doesn't know a whole lot of what's going on. Until Beta there really isn't anything to discuss in such a big way like you do right here, right now.^^ They'll sure as hell balance it out.

But to add something to the discussion: What Utility do you even need? You are a Range-Class that has the Benefits of a Melee Class AND a Pet. You honestly don't even need any more utility than that. That's just outright delusional. But I guess it's a normal Forum thing. Every Class wants to have the "Utility" of being the sole King of DPS.^^

I dont care about classes I don't play. I couldnt care less what happens to warriors, for example, since I don't have one. So I'm not sure why you're here. It's obvious from your ignorant comments on utility and DPS that you don't play a hunter, so... /shoo.

[Renisis86]

Our DPS is fine. You need to look at how this expansion has been designed. With the rise of Hybrid classes doing close to even damage, pure DPS classes have less to bring at times. Like any class hunters will have fights where we do exceptionally well (Malkorok, Thok, Norushen). No class should be awesome at every fight. Different clases shine on different fights. My only concern is If hunters are considered to have the worst button bloat, I hope blizzard doesn't pull a "blizzard" and over compensate and make hunters the easiest DPS rotation/priority in the game. Trust me....we don't want TBC hunters anymore.

[clevin]

Our DPS is fine. You need to look at how this expansion has been designed. With the rise of Hybrid classes doing close to even damage, pure DPS classes have less to bring at times. Like any class hunters will have fights where we do exceptionally well (Malkorok, Thok, Norushen). No class should be awesome at every fight. Different clases shine on different fights. My only concern is If hunters are considered to have the worst button bloat, I hope blizzard doesn't pull a "blizzard" and over compensate and make hunters the easiest DPS rotation/priority in the game. Trust me....we don't want TBC hunters anymore.

Our DPS is middle of the pack. Our utility is poor. Compared to a lock we lose in both realms. Compared to many hybrids we bring less/no utility and the same DPS. Would you rather have TRanq or... um... let's see....

Personally, I'd have been fine if our DPS was just closer to a lock's even without utility. We'llsee what WoD brings...but so far it had better be DPS because utility isn't in these first patch notes.

[Renisis86]

Locks have always had some great utility. Its part of their Kit. Mages don't have anything we can't bring to the table...(well I guess except for the tables), Rogues have smoke bomb, but Suffer in any fight that requires alot of target swapping (melee can be a bummer). Besides WOD will see many raid cool-downs go away. So don't worry to much about raid cool-downs. Many Hunters loose damage because they don't take full advantage of 100% dps up time. Hunters have poor utility in 25man yes, but are very valuable in a 10. Another thing to look at is Hunters are able to soak up gear like mad men. Who else uses agi mail (one other spec)? So thats another reason to bring, and play hunters. If this isn't good enough rerolling is free. I for one have been leveling a Mage to play for fun. Possibly to reroll to.

[anjan011]

Our DPS is middle of the pack. Our utility is poor. Compared to a lock we lose in both realms. Compared to many hybrids we bring less/no utility and the same DPS. Would you rather have TRanq or... um... let's see....

Personally, I'd have been fine if our DPS was just closer to a lock's even without utility. We'llsee what WoD brings...but so far it had better be DPS because utility isn't in these first patch notes.

Dont compare hunters with locks. Even blizzard admitted locks r OP and they need to be toned down a bit. Other than locks, check other classes, hunters r not far away from them. Warlocks r too op to be compared with any class really. We don't have utility so what? Its not solely the utility factor that determines the outcome of a fight. Sure having multiple traq is great. but in all fights almost 2 tranq is ever needed. if u need to chain traq too often, that mean either heals r not stepping up or raid is fucking up. As mentioned by others, not all fight favors all classes.

I see this "we have no utility, we middle of the pack" almost every expac. so what? I consider our mobility is our greatest utility. I personally wont sacrifice my mobility for traq or any raid CD. There r other classes for it. no raid team goes all hunters, neither they go all locks. but a mix and match of all.

[Raicky]

Another thing to look at is Hunters are able to soak up gear like mad men. Who else uses agi mail (one other spec)? So thats another reason to bring, and play hunters.

Getting a class just to soak gear is not very encouraging, just sayin. (which is exactly what is happening now tbh)

[Hallu]

I love how the 'ability to kite' argument always comes up.

Can someone tell me 1 encounter in the last 3 expansions where you would have a Hunter kite something?

[Illana]

I love how the 'ability to kite' argument always comes up.

Can someone tell me 1 encounter in the last 3 expansions where you would have a Hunter kite something?

gluth zombies

[Traveler Voltin]

archers have always been more mobile than mages. i have no idea why people keep comparing the 2.

[Goondicker]

Having played a hunter for a long time, here is my opinion:

With the current state of hunters (focus resource), hunters should be able to cast on the move. Back during WotLK era and earlier (mana resource), SS was just a filler and I had no quarrels with having to stop to cast it.

[Deleted]

I love how the 'ability to kite' argument always comes up.

Can someone tell me 1 encounter in the last 3 expansions where you would have a Hunter kite something?

Well I kitted HC magmaw larvs and HC council flower spawns back in cata, at it was the worst experience of my life.

[Hayro1]

Im confused, do hunters not consider the ability to bring pretty much any buff/debuff and some CDs to a raid via pets, utility?

Ahahahaha. That's all that needs to be said. You need 7 people to cover all buffs/debuffs, that's not including a Hunter obviously.

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The grunts on the tower? Glyphed explosive trap is more than enough combined with binding shot.

wut. And you know...you can just....blow them up. They go down so fast.

[Illana]

Ahahahaha. That's all that needs to be said. You need 7 people to cover all buffs/debuffs, that's not including a Hunter obviously.

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wut. And you know...you can just....blow them up. They go down so fast.

i solo them in 10man

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We should all meet up sometime, eat some pizza and stuff. Don't have any real friends only virtual ones like you guys

[eschatological]

I raided as a bear in ICC. Granted, swipe spam was OP, but I never felt the need for threat redirects except in cases where all the ranged hard-switched to something before it even reached me, and they only did that when they were making a mistake and not following the priority of what I was tanking (Dreamwalker comes to mind). And WotLK, while certainly not TBC, had much more threat issues than today.

Like I said earlier, MD on a 30s CD is more than enough to MD almost ANYTHING in SoO. I MD every wave of Galakras, I MD the bats on H-Thok, I can MD most of the wave in Garrosh p1 if my tanks needed it (they don't), I could MD all the bats on H-Tortos.

All this does is free them up to do an encounter design with *constantly spawning* adds, sort of like Spoils but out of the player's control. I certainly can't MD everything on Spoils right now but it's irrelevant because the tank has to be next to box anyways to open it.

[Tehterokkar]

I guess many people never raided as tanks here. The ability to pick up adds for your tank is amazing. MD as it is now can barely help out with this but many raid fights have adds spawning all over the place forcing the tank to run around picking them up and breaking his concentration between retaining aggro on the kited mobs, picking the new ones and using active mitigation while making it harder to position such adds so they can be neatly AoE'd. Can you imagine how Nefarian would be with this ability? Moreover it will allow completely new strategies revolving around kiting such trash with much greater ease since the kiter will no longer have to maintain aggro and can thus focus on snares and positioning. 1hr MD is OP as fuck and mythic raiding will have to be designed around it; heck any heroic encounter with adds spawning all over (and this is not at all a rare occurance) will love having a hunter.

Misdirection only helps if the target of MD is going the wrong way in the first place(like Bat spawns on Tortos 25HC, where you had a kiter tank). The threat MD provides is utterly helpless since it doesn't get any multipliers and if you are BM, you're even more helpless.