Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Serenais]

I don't PvP since the TBC days, but back in the day, I could fear someone and during that time I could mount up, because combat dropped extremely quickly.
Did that change?

I do not play on a PvP realm, but I believe it takes some 5+ seconds for the combat to drop off. Combined with the cast time to get mounted (alright, druids might have an unfair advantage here, but that's class speciffic problem), that's WAY more than enough time to intiate combat again.
Also, CCs can be broken via trinkets/abilities. If the PvPer is CCed enough that they run out of abilities to break CC, they are dead meat anyway and their target flying away should be the least of their worries.

Fat chance. These individuals don't have the mental capacity to do so. They just get a boner because they imagine their victim raging in frustration and helplessness. There is only one solution to this asshole behavior:

Transfer to a PvE realm. Which is what I did. BEST CHOICE OF MY ENTIRE FRIGGIN WOW CARRER!

PS: As you can see: I hate ganker kiddies too!

I never played on a PvP realm myself, and I doubt I ever will, especially after a lowbie ganker basically made my brother quit the game after he just started (you can see that I have it kind of personal with the gankers). I really do not see ganking as a valid way to play the game; it's just something allowed by ingame ruleset. Laws of physics allow theft too; doesn't make theft alright, though.

[Kazgrel]

Maybe boring isn't the right word, which is why I've been putting it in ""s Wether you wanna call it boring or frustrating or whatever, my point is that they need a contrast to fun and convenience, or it loses it's meaning. The problem seems to be that people can't agree on where that balance should be, but in the end it's Blizzard's job and all we can do is voice our opinions and see wether they agree or not!

Convenience yes, but fun no. Players won't stick around if they aren't finding things fun. On the convenient note, while it would be very convenient to log in and have a full set of bis gear from the current raid tier sitting in the mail, that would eliminate a major carrot-on-a-stick mechanism to keep someone subscribed.

[urasim]

You can't support using a ground mount or taking fast flight paths because it might take another 1-2min in some situations? Yeah you'll be ok. Think your over exaggerating a little, lets dip back to reality and a sane train of thought. And i wouldn't count on Blizzard listening to fanatical posts like this with no constructive feedback to boot.

1-2 minutes? Are you joking? Going from point A, to point B, to point C, etc, adds a lot of time to your account. Time spent traveling all adds up. There isn't any danger in the world, so riding on either mount is safe. I can get away from every PvP and PvE encounter easily with a ground mount. The only difference between the mounts is time saved and immersion. If your only argument is immersion, than it fails.

Flying breaks the game moving forward on future WoW endeavors. Why try to throw 5 band-aids on it when the best solution is it's removal. Flying isn't a need, it's a want..And we've had them for awhile now and the thought of losing it gives you withdrawals...Pretty sure you'll live.

It doesn't break anything. All I hear from you people is "it breaks something" without listing a single thing that it actually breaks.

A lot of changes being made in WoD is most defiantly a step forwards in design. A lot of going back to the foundations what made this game a success to begin with.

The ONLY change that is being made to push the game forward is updating models and bringing them into the modern era. Everything else has been in the game already, but with new art to make it seem new.

[Granyala]

I never played on a PvP realm myself, and I doubt I ever will, especially after a lowbie ganker basically made my brother quit the game after he just started

Aw man, that sucks!

I played on a PvP Realm for 4 years as a priest. I know the frustration well, esp as "non FOTM" class.
Personally I find it extremely idiotic by Blizzard that everything on a PvP realm is fair game.
Stuff like lowbie ganking, NPC camping etc, just shouldn't be possible, even on PvP realms.

[-Superman-]

Aw man, that sucks!

I played on a PvP Realm for 4 years as a priest. I know the frustration well, esp as "non FOTM" class.
Personally I find it extremely idiotic by Blizzard that everything on a PvP realm is fair game.
Stuff like lowbie ganking, NPC camping etc, just shouldn't be possible, even on PvP realms.

Back in the day, there were Dis-honorable kills that actually TOOK Honor Points from you, but the gankers cried out and Blizz caved in

[Rankin]

Problem is: 99% of the anti flyers come from PvP realms, and they do have a valid point. Flying gives their targets an easy way of escape, since it's virtually impossible to track a flying person, because after seconds it's so far away that it won't be displayed anymore.

They might have a valid point, but their solution is to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Give all players access to the Engineering enchant for the parachute cloak. Make all attacks dismount flying mounts. PVP is solved and Engineers get to keep goblin gliders for themselves.

[Mjau]

But thats just it. Getting from "A" to "B" at max level doesn't need to be a challenge. It's doesn't need to be boring or frustrating or limited.

The challenge needs to come when you get to "B" and some creative encounter design is needed at that point. Getting there doesn't have or even need to be a headache to any extent especially at max level.

Well that's exactly where a lot of people don't agree! You want to get there and do what you set out to do, which I understand. For me though it's not about getting there fast that makes the game fun. I love it when it's way more chaotic. I want to get distracted on my way, I want to be ganked/gank someone and get a fight going. I don't want to gank and harass a single palyer for hours and call that world pvp, that's no fun for either side. I want people around that will flock to whoever is ganked and help them and not just fly above it all.

Now I understand that this isn't the way everyone wants it, but it's the way I like it and I would love it if the game was more too my playstyle. Yes it is selfish But it's going to be selfish any way you look at it. I don't know how they can make both groups happy. They already have pvp and pve realms, but maybe the difference between the two isn't enough?

[Rankin]

Back in the day, there were Dis-honorable kills that actually TOOK Honor Points from you, but the gankers cried out and Blizz caved in

Those dishonorable kills only came from killing certain NPCs. The mushroom vendor in Tarren Mill was more terrifying than all of the Horde players combined.

[urasim]

Back in the day, there were Dis-honorable kills that actually TOOK Honor Points from you, but the gankers cried out and Blizz caved in

You never got a dishonorable kill from killing low level players. They were thinking about doing that, but they canceled that and added it to a select few key NPCs. I was a week away from High Warlord, and someone tagged a dishonorable kill NPC, dragged it to my location, and killed it causing everyone in the group to take a hit. That act alone caused me two weeks worth of catchup that I just couldn't do as I was already playing 14+ hours a day...

[Joey Ray III]

if we are talking about PvPers complaining that a target they killed several times by now has escaped because they do not like being ganked, I apologise, but if a player considers making someone else's gameplay not fun an enjoyable way to spend time, they should stop and try a bit of self-reflecting (apologise, but I REALLY dispise gankers).

nobody complains about not being able to kill someone for a 10th time because they managed to finally escape. even on ground mounts is not really that difficult anyway. thing is, with flying around there's hardly anyone to attack in the first place.

ganking is integral to pvp realms, many people rolled pvp specifically for that little thrill it adds. if you're not willing to cope with that what on earth are you doing on pvp realm?

[Granyala]

Well that's exactly where a lot of people don't agree! You want to get there and do what you set out to do, which I understand. For me though it's not about getting there fast that makes the game fun. I love it when it's way more chaotic. I want to get distracted on my way, I want to be ganked/gank someone and get a fight going. I don't want to gank and harass a single palyer for hours and call that world pvp, that's no fun for either side. I want people around that will flock to whoever is ganked and help them and not just fly above it all.

Now I understand that this isn't the way everyone wants it, but it's the way I like it and I would love it if the game was more too my playstyle. Yes it is selfish But it's going to be selfish any way you look at it. I don't know how they can make both groups happy. They already have pvp and pve realms, but maybe the difference between the two isn't enough?

Understandable.

BUT:
why the hell do I, that plays on a P V E server, need to let go of my flying mount?
On a PvE server, there are no distractions. Sure the occasional Mob that wants to annoy you, but poses no challenge or entertainment value at all.

[urasim]

nobody complains about not being able to kill someone for a 10th time because they managed to finally escape. even on ground mounts is not really that difficult anyway. thing is, with flying around there's hardly anyone to attack in the first place.

ganking is integral to pvp realms, many people rolled pvp specifically for that little thrill it adds. if you're not willing to cope with that what on earth are you doing on pvp realm?

Expecting a somewhat fair fight. I don't consider killing a low level character PvP. There isn't any thrill to be had on either side. If you like killing weaker things then you have a serious mental problem. Like all those sick people killing defenseless animals.

If you are the same level as me I don't care, and I welcome the challenge. Hell, I'd even let you attack me while I was killing random mobs in the world. Makes for more fun.

[Serenais]

nobody complains about not being able to kill someone for a 10th time because they managed to finally escape. even on ground mounts is not really that difficult anyway. thing is, with flying around there's hardly anyone to attack in the first place.

ganking is integral to pvp realms, many people rolled pvp specifically for that little thrill it adds. if you're not willing to cope with that what on earth are you doing on pvp realm?

I personally do not play on a PvP realm; if you meant it in general, then, well. I do not consider being randomly killed by a member of an opposing faction ganking (as long as it happens between players on roughly similar levels; a lvl100 murdering out a starting zone is definitelly beyond "randomly being killed by a member of a member of an oposing faction" and has no other purpose than to frustrate other players). That indeed does come with a PvP realm. I have a problem with people on purpose corpse camping people with no end. Moreso, as was stated several times (at least in previous threads, I do not recall reading it in this one), there are "PvPers" who do not want flying in the game because it might allow their target to escape the potential logging off out of frustration.
That is what I consider ganking and what I think really does not belong to an MMO, and I did mention it for that speciffic reason.

[Mjau]

Understandable.

BUT:
why the hell do I, that plays on a P V E server, need to let go of my flying mount?
On a PvE server, there are no distractions. Sure the occasional Mob that wants to annoy you, but poses no challenge or entertainment value at all.

Well I personally wouldn't mind if they had "no flying" and "flying" realms, however I guess there might be some clever reasons to why such a split would be a bad idea. Maybe it would be harder to design content with both ideas in mind? I don't know. I think maybe it would be good to make a bigger difference between pve and pvp servers, then you would get a more concentrated pvp playerbase on the pvp servers and same with the pve ones. I guess it would be bad for the people who like a bit of both but not all the time, or people who wants to play with friends.

If it were up to me though, you could definately keep your flying mount on a pve server!

[Mormolyce]

None of this shit is necessary. The current proposed solution is just fine and makes the most sense. Flying remains exactly as it is but we don't get our Draenor flying license until the first patch. Simple.

Understandable.

BUT:
why the hell do I, that plays on a P V E server, need to let go of my flying mount?
On a PvE server, there are no distractions. Sure the occasional Mob that wants to annoy you, but poses no challenge or entertainment value at all.

350 pages and I'm still saying the same thing.

There will be no flying in WoD for one patch for PVE reasons. NOT PVP.

[-Superman-]

Since NONE of my suggestion appeal to your sense of balance, as a Blizz employee who was tasked with balancing flight, not removing it, how would YOU balance it to put it on par with ground mounts WITHOUT nerfing it into the ground and making it completely unusable?

Still waiting for Giscoicus to respond to my request and show me how flying can be balanced without being nerfed through the basement or removed entirely. I thought my idea was pretty good, but he disagrees. Hopefully he will have something to share with us soon.

[Joey Ray III]

Expecting a somewhat fair fight. I don't consider killing a low level character PvP. There isn't any thrill to be had on either side. If you like killing weaker things then you have a serious mental problem.

If you are the same level as me I don't care, and I welcome the challenge. Hell, I'd even let you attack me while I was killing random mobs in the world. Makes for more fun.

if you want a 'fair' fight then bg or arena might be better bets. world pvp is not supposed to be fair, it never has been.

and i never once said nothing about killing lowbies, don't make shit up. if i do gank i gank max leveler players only. and yes there is thrill in that, both when ganking and when getting ganked.

Like all those sick people killing defenseless animals.

i'm not even gonna touch this.

[-Superman-]

There will be no flying in WoD for one patch for PVE reasons. NOT PVP.

Yet it is PvPers who flame the pro-fliers telling them it is a good thing and should be removed for good. Maybe, the PvE crowd would be less defensive if the PvP crowd would stop egging them on.

[Granyala]

Expecting a somewhat fair fight. I don't consider killing a low level character PvP.

In a game as equipment dependent as WoW, where differences of insane magnitude exist, even between 90s, FAIRNESS is pretty much nonexistent.
Whomever has the bigger stat stick wins. It's as simple as that.

I guess there might be some clever reasons to why such a split would be a bad idea.

PvP servers would be dead (and I mean completely dead) like that: *snips with fingers*.
Players are WAAAY too attached to convenience. And personally I think that flying is too big a thing to be made optional.

Also: Forcing players on the ground is an excellent timesink. Blizzard likes timesinks, because more timesinks = less content needed/time interval = less $$$ investment for nearly the same return of profits.

Yes: I sometimes think that lowly of them.

There will be no flying in WoD for one patch for PVE reasons.

They want more. They're just cautios and want to see how it turns out.
I hope it causes an outrage, so we can back to "no flying during leveling", which I always quite liked.

[Serenais]

None of this shit is necessary. The current proposed solution is just fine and makes the most sense. Flying remains exactly as it is but we don't get our Draenor flying license until the first patch. Simple.

This thread should probably be renamed, since it is nowadays more about flying/no-flying discussion than about "no flying until 6.1 or not". (that being said, Blizzard could simply address the quote by Mr. Afrasiabi, just for clarity's sake; it wouldn't hurt anyone, now, would it)