[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Fredzilla]

There's a reason why people come to mmo-champ instead of elitistjerks for ret information... not saying they're wrong but no addon is required to play ret, makes it easier? sure at times. But if you're experienced enough/calm enough during combat to see your rotation go along there's absolutely no reason at all to have clc ret.
Easier =/= mandatory

Only addons I consider mandatory for raiding is Weak Auras, some form of bossmod for timers and maybe bar addon (bartender) so you can tidy things up, make keybindings easily and most importantly customize frames. (hide in combat, hide when not hovering over etc)

I'd be fine raiding with Weak Auras and DBM/other bossmod and bartender alone. The things you can do with weak auras is borderline cheating the game.

You dirty cheater =P

[nightfalls]

There's a reason why people come to mmo-champ instead of elitistjerks for ret information... not saying they're wrong but no addon is required to play ret, makes it easier?

CLCRet is far, far from mandatory, anyone who says so is stupid. Maybe some see Anaxie as a prick, but he's 100% right in that regard.

Personally I'd put WeakAuras and timers (encounter mods) as mandatory, maybe not the latter that much on all fights, but it's good for some. That and standard bar mods, whichever is used (not even really that if you use OmniCC).

[Bonkura]

Are there even still top rets out there relying on CLC?

The only reason we "need" addons is because how awful the standard UI is. You can definitely perform just as well without it, but you'll lose a lot of focus on what you actually should be doing (paying attention to what's going on around you, not what buttons you should click to improve your numbers). So if they try fix classes to not rely on addons that's actually hilarious when they first of all should focus on fixing their crap UI.

[Zabannith]

CLCInfo is much more than just a rotation helper , you can literally track any proc any spell effect buff/debuff on you or any target in the game with it , as long as you know how to make it work it's a very very useful tool , hell I use it to track energy an combo points on my rogue , energy and chi on my monk , GoAK stacks and duration left on GoAK/Wings ,trinket duration current HP , you can track your life, your mana the ICD on trinkets , time left til synapse spring /nitro boosts you can even make it put a big icon on your screen when your standing in bad shit on the ground as long as you know the spell ID of that ground effect , it's a very very powerful tool and part of the reason why I never bothered to learn how to use weak auras because clcinfo can do more or less the same thing.

TL;DR if you only see CLCInfo as a rotation helper your missing out on so much more that the addon can do, and if you don't like the rotation helper part , you can turn that shit off an use it tracking things .

[Fredzilla]

Are there even still top rets out there relying on CLC?

The only reason we "need" addons is because how awful the standard UI is. You can definitely perform just as well without it, but you'll lose a lot of focus on what you actually should be doing (paying attention to what's going on around you, not what buttons you should click to improve your numbers). So if they try fix classes to not rely on addons that's actually hilarious when they first of all should focus on fixing their crap UI.

It's not quite as bad as you make it seem. I manage just fine with the standard UI.

[Zabannith]

Although i've had clcinfo on my screen for so long now I sorta feel naked if it's not there , I don't need it and 95% of the time don't follow it, but my UI just dosen't seem right if it's not on my screen... sorta like if you wear a watch or a belt every day .. you sorta feel naked if it's not there , you can do your daily routine without them... but things just feel off

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Not joking, Weak Auras should be removed... it breaks the freaking game XD
Example, you can write codes to tell you when to refresh dots of any kind based on how strong your old dots are and how strong your new ones would become.
You can write mods to tell you how many parasites are up at any time on Paragons to tell how many you need morphed people to eat, you can even make weak aura mods to tell how many parasites each individual morphed person has eaten so you can yell at them if they don't do their job.
Weak Auras is by far (imo) the best addon for wow, if you don't have it -> get it. If you don't know how to use it -> get auras from others that know.

Back on topic.
So far the only things we've seen is that our aoe is going to be controlled more by GCDs / Seals, Seals still on GCD (for good reason), talents have good intention but might end up being too complicated for most which makes Final Verdict the obvious pick for them even if it's extremely boring and adds nothing. Not to mention that they're removing 6 (or is it 7 now?) abilities from us and not giving us any new unless we take Seraphim as a talent.
Might be just complaints but not without reason, ret in MoP (with 4set T16) is by far the most fun/entertaining playstyle/rotation I've had in my ret time. The changes suggested (without testing them hands on) just looks terrible and clunky, what's even more ridiculous is that they're doing all these changes when they claimed that they were happy with how ret worked..?

- - - Updated - - -

Are there even still top rets out there relying on CLC?

Not that I consider myself "top" but I still use CLCret because I do a lot of raidcalling and watch raidframes etc. I don't follow CLCret blindly though (neither should anyone), it's just a helper to give you information, not what to do.

[Zabannith]

, what's even more ridiculous is that they're doing all these changes when they claimed that they were happy with how ret worked..?

To be fair they never said in what context they were happy with how ret worked... they never did state if they meant MoP ret or alpha ret....

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

CLCInfo is much more than just a rotation helper

Right, it's a addon that filters the information you want it to give to you. You can do what it says (which you shouldn't 24/7) or use the information it gives you.

[nightfalls]

Right, it's a addon that filters the information you want it to give to you. You can do what it says (which you shouldn't 24/7) or use the information it gives you.

And the addon itself is not mandatory (@ previous poster).

But to be fair, to build on that post touting WeakAuras, you can build CLCRet itself in WA.

[Maegor]

And the addon itself is not mandatory (@ previous poster).

But to be fair, to build on that post touting WeakAuras, you can build CLCRet itself in WA.

Just like Theck's prot string.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

To be fair they never said in what context they were happy with how ret worked... they never did state if they meant MoP ret or alpha ret....

Still doesn't change the fact that Ret in MoP (and earlier irrc) is by far the most popular class/spec combination and with these changes I can see a lot less people playing ret, I've invested far too much time in ret to reroll (I think) but the current changes/direction made on alpha patches is pushing the spec backwards...

[Bonkura]

It's not quite as bad as you make it seem. I manage just fine with the standard UI.

If you play Ret you can do fine without. There's not really that much to track. I guess you can track your Censure decently with the standard UI so it only leaves Inquisition. CD's and temporary buffs doesn't affect gameplay much. I only use my addons to see cooldowns and buffs/debuffs easier, but yeah I'd do fine without them because I sure did before I started using them. Addons mainly just make my eyes hurt a bit less after a long raid.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

The holy power indicator given by the standard UI is useless, doesn't give you proper information of procs (4set atm being the big one). Inquisition being the other one atm, but like you said. Addons make your eyes hurt less, it makes things easier and if things are easier you can do more tasks or do your current tasks better. Ask any DPS raid leader if they do more or less damage if they don't have to raid lead, there's a limit of how much information you can process at any time. Streamlining the information or more importantly filtering it to show you what you want/need is why we use them, same as football players (soccer for you US kids). They don't need shoes to play football, but it helps them a lot so why not use it?

[Zabannith]

Still doesn't change the fact that Ret in MoP (and earlier irrc) is by far the most popular class/spec combination and with these changes I can see a lot less people playing ret, I've invested far too much time in ret to reroll (I think) but the current changes/direction made on alpha patches is pushing the spec backwards...

I agree 100% my ret has been my main since sunwell patch when i started playing , i think i've got like 300 days of play time on just that 1 toon , it's too much time invested to change mains , regardless of how ret turns out i will continue to play ret.
But in context to what they said , maybe they don't think the current mop ret is where they want it maybe (in their eyes) this new ret from alpha is what they've been talking about all along... we're only getting part of the whole plan for ret atm ... and we really can't make any truly informed choices until we play test it ourselves and see what blizz's new vision is for ret ... who knows at this point? nobody does... it may end up being a really really good spec that is very very desirable for raids.... at this point we just don't have the info we need , sure the way things are looking if they were added to current mop ret would be horrible , i'm not denying that ... however.. we don't know the rest of the changes yet and they work togeather very well.. we will just have to wait until beta and see.

[Maegor]

It still doesn't hurt to let them know that we are worried about that this change will make a smooth rotation clunky. You have to voice your concerns to them as they release information, because if you wait until beta, your concerns could be lost in the concerns of 10 other classes.

I'd be interested in knowing how many questions Celestalon gets on twitter a day. You think he answers 5-10% of the legit ones? That'd be my guess. They almost have to roll this stuff out slowly and piecemeal so they can get feedback from people. So feel free to wait until beta before you say anything to them, just don't be surprised if you get drowned out by other issues.

[nightfalls]

Still doesn't change the fact that Ret in MoP (and earlier irrc) is by far the most popular class/spec combination and with these changes I can see a lot less people playing ret, I've invested far too much time in ret to reroll (I think) but the current changes/direction made on alpha patches is pushing the spec backwards...

It's simply because it's one of the most popular classes and it only has one DPS spec (most popular role), so naturally it would be the most popular class/spec combination. That doesn't say much about "over-representation" though.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't use CLC or whatever. I do use addons but nothing related to rotation.

[Fredzilla]

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...73431616585728

A thing just happened.

[Rheckameohs]

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...73431616585728

A thing just happened.

Thank God. I can see that they're trying to give SoR some kind of appeal (at least that's what I think the idea behind the change was), but making paladins stance dance isn't the way to do it. SoR really needs to be looked at though, and changed beyond a simple damage buff or tying HotR to it.