Why is exclusivity now such a bad thing in MMO's.

[tumppu]

So what kinds of things would be nice to have excluded from us casual scum? Raiders already get better gear, unique titles, achievements, pets, mounts etc. What else? Your nametag glowing purple and a loud fricking emote that says "BOW TO MY MIGHT CASUALS, FOR I AM HARDCORE" when you don a full current tier heroic set?

You get plenty of exclusive stuff. What you seem to want is for less people to have it, that is, you want to be a ... nah, won't say it.

I was simply positively happy to get timeless gear, so I could more easily solo some old content and even some pandaria 5-mans. Obviously this was a terrible affront for all the hard working raid people, but I think you can get over it.

[Deleted]

Same reason why people will rather watch new blockbuster movie than Casablanca from 1960-ies. Esp younger people who play games.
Also, everyone already seen old tiers, why going back, its just that, old.

But its not old to you if you haven't done it and thats the crux of my position if you haven't experienced the raid then how can it be old to you? Someone who hasnt seen casablanca before might enjoy it just as much or even more so than the latest blockbuster movie but they'll never have the chance to experience it because the new tiers out and theres no point going back and theres no one to go back with because you're boosted straight to the last tier, why does everyone need to be in the last tier of content instead of playing through all the content at their own pace?

[Maniac2]

I've explained already why human nature makes this statement incorrect. Easily attained rewards don't feel like rewards at all, and quickly become expectations.

A game without goals that are either challenging or time consuming to acquire is one that is extremely easy to walk away from. This is counter-intuitive to the genre.

Whats wrong with having easy walk away from game? Do we all need to be addicts to the game?

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This attitude of now now now now can only need lead to people getting bored and quitting the game whats the point of the game when you've completed it in a matter of hours? Make another character do it all again in a couple of hours?

Full LFR gearing doesnt take hours, it takes months, depends on RNG. With few characters at the same time.

You want Blizzard to launch new raid tier? Same do I.
You dont want to spend a year in SoO, you want new tier? Same do I.
So, how I am now now now, and you are not? Whats the difference between us?

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But its not old to you if you haven't done it and thats the crux of my position if you haven't experienced the raid then how can it be old to you??

I experienced all raids that ever existed in WoW. Now what?

[cabyio]

The lowest common denominator demands.

Most things in life are fucked because of this.

[Deleted]

This is my view on it.

Some people, people that I would call "real gamers" view games as a challenge, as a mountain to climb. And those people will put in the time and the effort to be able to be at the top. When I play a game, especially a multiplayer game I want to be the best I can possibly be, and if I know that I don't have the time to accomplish that, well I just don't bother with the game to begin with because I won't have fun knowing that the most I can accomplish is being mediocre.

Other people, that I could call "casual gamers" or "phone gamers" view games as simple entertainment, as a movie or a TV show. These people don't want to put any effort into the game, they don't care about how bad they might be, and they don't want to be told that they are bad. But they still want to have it all.

The problem is that some of the changes Blizzard made to the game attracted these "phone gamers", they stopped playing Angry Birds and Farmville and joined World of Warcraft.
These same changes drove away many of the "real gamers", making the "phone gamers" the majority after a while (my guess would be with Cata). Blizzard is not stupid, they realized this but they had little choice if they didn't want to lose even more subcribers, they had to make the "casual/phone gamers" happy.

This is all speculation on my part but I think that Blizzard has made a huge amount of money with Hearthstone and RoS, so they have decided to finally take a big risk and revert the changes to make the game more appealing to "real gamers" again.

I like to think that the Devs really care about the game, and would like it to be the epic journey that it once was.

[melzas]

I don't like LFR. I hate how mind numbing it is, how toxic people who go there are and how long queues for dps are, and I'd rather not raid at all than do it. But it's mind blowing for me that someone who doesn't use it wants it gone. Why you even care what other people (you don't even know) are doing there and want it taken away from someone who is actually having fun there??? I couldn't give two dimes about it if I'm not using it, let everyone have their fun I say.

My only problem with it is that it is currently only real character progression path for my alts (pretty much Timeless Isl > LFR is how you progress your character atm) and that they put unique looking gear recolors there, so as a tramsog fan I sometimes have to go there before they remove LFR tier next expansion. Both of these issues are adressed in WoD so I have no complains about it anymore.

If you are raiding normal/heroic and want it gone, shame on you, because you want to feel exlusive by denying other people their fun, and that's bad.

[Lethey Alexandros]

Would you be so kind to link your char so we can see you done all brawler guild archivements? tia ^^

Becuse that has everything to do with raiding..

while I am at it, how about I link my holiday achivements, pvp achivements, and battle pet achivements too?

[Pandapuncher]

So you hate people like me just cause we think differently? I dont hate you for your mindset, in fact I respect it. Why cant you do the same for fellow player who like same game as you do?

Yes, Im casual , I play LFR only.
Yes, I used to be herioc raider for years.
Yes, I work 9-5.
Yes, I have kids and wife.
Yes, I have time to raid, BUT not for every raid and not at set times. I set my own times by using LFR.
No, Im not lazy, I just want to play when I want, not when I have to show up.
No, I dont care if you get heirloom from Garrosh or tier gear or if you get 200 mounts from heroic bosses only.
No, I dont care if your herioc gear flashes in rainbow collors, with a sign "killed heroic Garrosh".

BUT I do care if you want to remove LFR mode which I and others enjoy. You actually want me and others to leave the game, by having nothing to do to progress our toons. I bet you know what happens when game looses more than 50% of their playerbase.

Yes, its very selfish by you wanting to remove others fun so you can have yours.

You should quit because you are wasting your money.

I dont believe you were hardcore at all. Not a bit

flex is faster than LFR, quicker to form than LFR, more fun than LFR. unless you think mindlessly slapping your keyboard is fun, idk

[Deleted]

Full LFR gearing doesnt take hours, it takes months, depends on RNG. With few characters at the same time.

14 bosses in SoO you get 1 piece of loot or gold from every boss and while you can get very unlucky streaks of gold it is very very unlikely it'll take anyone longer than a month to gear a char.

You want Blizzard to launch new raid tier? Same do I.
You dont want to spend a year in SoO, you want new tier? Same do I.
So, how I am now now now, and you are not? Whats the difference between us?

Because you want to have the same content and story line and gear(aesthetically) but you want it to be able to be cleared the day its released without effort.

The conversations pretty pointless neither of us will influence blizzards gameplay decisions, for me all I see when people make these kinds of arguments for lfr is that people just see what other people have and instead of being content with what they're doing (I was happy clearing content at my own pace in tbc with so much left a head of me to do.) they want what the other person has why? because its not fair that he has that and I dont. Why cant people just be happy clearing content at their own pace? why do we have to have 50 different difficulties why cant we just have different raids of different difficulty that over time get scaled down to be more accessible to people?

[Maniac2]

This is my view on it.

Some people, people that I would call "real gamers" view games as a challenge, as a mountain to climb. And those people will put in the time and the effort to be able to be at the top. When I play a game, especially a multiplayer game I want to be the best I can possibly be, and if I know that I don't have the time to accomplish that, well I just don't bother with the game to begin with because I won't have fun knowing that the most I can accomplish is being mediocre.

Other people, that I could call "casual gamers" or "phone gamers" view games as simple entertainment, as a movie or a TV show. These people don't want to put any effort into the game, they don't care about how bad they might be, and they don't want to be told that they are bad. But they still want to have it all.

The problem is that some of the changes Blizzard made to the game attracted these "phone gamers", they stopped playing Angry Birds and Farmville and joined World of Warcraft.
These same changes drove away many of the "real gamers", making the "phone gamers" the majority after a while (my guess would be with Cata). Blizzard is not stupid, they realized this but they had little choice if they didn't want to lose even more subcribers, they had to make the "casual/phone gamers" happy.

This is all speculation on my part but I think that Blizzard has made a huge amount of money with Hearthstone and RoS, so they have decided to finally take a big risk and revert the changes to make the game more appealing to "real gamers" again.

I like to think that the Devs really care about the game, and would like it to be the epic journey that it once was.

Think you just generalized too much here.
My old tbc/wotlk did quite well at those time, doing all hard modes at the time. Today not a single member play organized raids, we all do LFR only, although all of us have abilities to play on mythic levels.
Even if I play LFR only, I still have all my gear min-maxed, flasked up, fed up and play at maximum on any LFR fight.

It maybe is a small sample, but there are skilled people playing LFR levels only.

[Pandapuncher]

..and that is the never ending problem. A guy tells you what he did, does and likes and somebody else tells him he is full of shit and knows better. Actually, I bet you are the kind of guy who would also claim he knows better than the game devs. ^^

Maybe I'm crazy, but how is standing in a spot, and doing your rotation... in the same spot. To complete the entire raid on the first day.

Any fun, at all?

Because that's what LFR is, it would be like, going and buying a game. Knowing you will beat it in 3 hours. LFR is the CoD compaign of MMOs

how you manage to do nothing but LFR for 6 months is beyond me. I would much rather do heroics.

Again. Stand in spot. spam fireball. win

Fun? about as fun as Angry bi-, oh wait, no angry birds is at least difficult


Not to mention the -FACT- that Flex runs, are quicker to form, and are done faster than LFR, which is why I suggest he was never a hardcore raider.

You could, in a reasonable amount of time, Kill normal mode garrosh playing a maximum of 5 hours a week.

IF, you do not even have 5 hours a week, frankly you are wasting your money.

[cabyio]

Think you just generalized too much here.
My old tbc/wotlk did quite well at those time, doing all hard modes at the time. Today not a single member play organized raids, we all do LFR only, although all of us have abilities to play on mythic levels.
Even if I play LFR only, I still have all my gear min-maxed, flasked up, fed up and play at maximum on any LFR fight.

It maybe is a small sample, but there are skilled people playing LFR levels only.

How does that not drive you insane? It would be like a pro/semi-pro tennis player playing with an 6th grade team, boring as shit. I just don't understand how someone with the skill to play higher levels can enjoy playing the at the lowest level. I would rather quit and play other games then be relegated to LFR.

[Lucetia]

TLDR: Why is it a bad thing for wanting recognition for your achievements/things you've done that used to be difficult/challenging/required a lot more effort.

I know there are a few pages and some might be same as mine, but I wanted to chime in with my opinion on the matter.

Exclusivity is something that I'm fine with to an extent. What I mean by this is the following. Locking mounts, items, titles, etc behind a "gate" where you must accomplish a task is perfectly fine with me. Putting in some kind of effort is perfectly fine to do on items. My issue with exclusivity is when you remove it because of a some reason that they believe is good (granted some others do, some don't).

I'm one of those people who believe if it's made available it should stay in and not be removed. Keep it behind the same gate as before or add in some requirements, but there really is no point in removing it. To me someone having something at release or 2 years later doesn't affect me in anyway. It gives me something to work for and once I get it then I can feel my own accomplishment and no one else having it can change that effect.

I just really see no point in removing stuff as it just irritates more people than it makes happy, imo. Why penalize a player who joins up 5 years later just because he was late to the game? Wouldn't you want to keep stuff in so that they can go back and get it thus possibly extending their subscription time?

Even pre-order items I don't see a point in exclusivity especially in single player games and such. Which most companies are now doing as a DLC later on (which is great for the player and the company as it's a little bit more profit). In MMO's I can *somewhat* see it on pre-orders as you can pay an extra $20 on some games to get items like in WoW, a pet and mount, but if you were to add it in the game and able to get then it'd be really hard to do. I'm ok with this option IF you keep an upgrade option available for as long as the game exists and the items are still obtainable. Something like Vanilla/TBC/Wrath/Cata that had Collector's Edition items I think should be obtainable somehow or an upgrade option available.

Exclusivity, imo, is just bad if you remove it. But if you gate it behind stuff so it's obtainable, but still exclusive enough for the people who put in effort then that is fine. If they want something to go away I say put it behind a gate like "Insane in the Membrane" :P

Think you just generalized too much here.
My old tbc/wotlk did quite well at those time, doing all hard modes at the time. Today not a single member play organized raids, we all do LFR only, although all of us have abilities to play on mythic levels.
Even if I play LFR only, I still have all my gear min-maxed, flasked up, fed up and play at maximum on any LFR fight.

It maybe is a small sample, but there are skilled people playing LFR levels only.

I know the feeling myself, a friend of mine and my roomate can all play Normal/Heroic levels but can't because other people we know can't handle it (for whatever reason), can't find times that we can all meet. We've tried other guilds but the environment was just extremely unfriendly, hard to find a decent time for a guild to raid, or despite us doing really well in tryouts (least deaths, avoided damage, Top 5 on meters in 25 man, high healing, all the good things raiders should be doing) we get benched because we aren't buddies with the GM and stuff. Granted loot was another issue too, but we weren't expecting anything really. It's just irritating seeing an upgraded weapon go to a guy who is for example 512 (525 drop) and you are wearing 478's knowing it would help the guild more.

[Maniac2]

You should quit because you are wasting your money.

I dont believe you were hardcore at all. Not a bit

flex is faster than LFR, quicker to form than LFR, more fun than LFR. unless you think mindlessly slapping your keyboard is fun, idk

Since its my money, think its on me to judge is it wasted or not.
Do you believe me or not, doesnt matter to me, Im not convincing anyone here about how he should play a game.

Ans sure, flex is maybe faster, but whats the rush? Bosses wont go anywhere... Not that I need to gear super-fast to get in higher mode Im not going anyway...

[Therougetitan]

I think it's just not an issue in MMOs, but in gaming and life in general nowdays. People want things to be equal when they're not, and not work for things. No child left behind. Everyone feels entitled to something now.

[Deleted]

Think you just generalized too much here.
My old tbc/wotlk did quite well at those time, doing all hard modes at the time. Today not a single member play organized raids, we all do LFR only, although all of us have abilities to play on mythic levels.
Even if I play LFR only, I still have all my gear min-maxed, flasked up, fed up and play at maximum on any LFR fight.

It maybe is a small sample, but there are skilled people playing LFR levels only.

Sure I am not saying that it's all black and white, it was just to get my view across.

Anyhow, mind explaining what exactly do you get on a personal level from doing LFR only? I would NEVER and I mean NEVER EVER play WoW if all I did was to do LFR.

I play to become the best I can, I play to kill the hardest bosses in the game and get the most exclusive rewards, and there is none of that in LFR.

You being an oldshool raider should know what real raiding is, how can you find the LFR experience (and wow as a result) enjoyable? What is your final goal? Is it the lore that keeps you interested?
To me doing LFR only would be the biggest waste of my time, and I'd rather do anything else.

[Maniac2]

14 bosses in SoO you get 1 piece of loot or gold from every boss and while you can get very unlucky streaks of gold it is very very unlikely it'll take anyone longer than a month to gear a char.


Because you want to have the same content and story line and gear(aesthetically) but you want it to be able to be cleared the day its released without effort.

Maybe Im really unlucky, but so far, in 5 months on 3 characters, I dont have full 528 or higher ilvl in every slot.

Yes, I want same story line, since its RPG and story is important. Gear (aestetically) not really, since it is transmogged anyway. Dont want mounts, pets, titles, tier, heirloom. Not enough difference in rewards? Megalomania comes to my mind...

[Deleted]

I'm kind of torn.

Say you have 2 players.

Player A is good enough at the game to get the shiny things, but doesen't have the time.

Player B wants to get good enough at the game to get the shiny things, but doesen't have the time.

That isn't fair. But then you have a third player, player C.

Player C isn't good enough to get the shiny, has no intention of becoming good enough to get the cool tier gear, even though he has the time, but he still wants them.

That is fair. He obviously shouldn't have them. I think that if you're good enough you should get them, but if you're not, and you're not willing to put in the effort to become good enough to get it, you shouldn't have it.

[Aredyl]

This is how I look at it:
Almost everybody wants to be a special snowflake.
Blizzard let everybody be special snowflakes.
Now nobody is a special snowflake.
People complain that they're no longer special snowflakes.
So Blizzard allows some to be special snowflakes again.

And it just repeats... If they introduce exclusive items, then people complain. If they give those exclusive items to everybody, then people complain. There is no solution - simple as that. (And yes, I have quite a few achievements, items, mounts, etc that can no longer be obtained - and can care less about them).

[Maniac2]

How does that not drive you insane? It would be like a pro/semi-pro tennis player playing with an 6th grade team, boring as shit. I just don't understand how someone with the skill to play higher levels can enjoy playing the at the lowest level. I would rather quit and play other games then be relegated to LFR.

Maybe Im just too old now for that, dunno. Getting old sucks, you know. .
Motivation change, only motive now is to relax and have fun.
Back then it was competition as primary motive, not gear. Gear was just a tool.