Remove LFR completely?

[Itisamuh]

Because we are not forced to do them.. if pet battles would give us better gear - we would complain.
pet battles, pvp, challenge modes do not affect raiding!
Don't force raiders to farm lfr on top of normal, heroic..
We hate it, killing Garrosh 4 times a week! But we can't just ignore it as well!
We would do ANYTHING(even race change for some) to get best possible results!

Blizzard could separate tier bonuses(organised raiding from lfr), they shouldn't work together!
Same with trinkets - make them less attractive for organised raiding!
That way we would not feel forced to go lfr - and you even could keep tier sets - everybody happy!
Otherwise - just remove sets and op trinkets from lfr.. no other way!

Remember legendary chain?
First time in wow history legendary was nothing more than upgrade!
Because everyone was burned out already.. lfr on top of raiding is too much.. we invest 12+ hours a week(without lfr).

I can't even tell if this post is serious, but I'll treat it as if it is. You aren't forced to do it, by anyone but yourselves. It's not a legitimate reason to remove something just because some players are obsessive compulsive, and don't think they can function without min/maxing.

[eErike]

In Wotlk and Cataclysm I cleared every content avaible and played in one of my servers best guilds, ranking top 100 on WoL and played maybe 20 hours every week.

Now I go to uni, study 8:00 to 20:00 almost everyday, hang with friends and my girlfriend most of the time that is left but I ocationally enjoy clearing LFR to experience the new content that comes out. So why would someone like you, most likely slack through your life beeing either unemployed, studying nothing or living at home and have the time to play normal/heroics, who doesnt' even need to set foot in LFR decide what I am suposed to be able to experience or see?

Selfish people wanting to brag and have their humongous e-penises swingin about everywhere on these forums, do your stuff, get your gear and enjoy the time you spend playing with people you enjoy instead of beeing so focused on beeing special.

[Thimagryn]

Well there is at least one more, those who do it because all other alternatives to raiding pail in comparison and would swap to something else. There is a reason why some pro-LFRers shit on alternatives to LFR. They want LFR to remain the top and despite claims of being pro-alternatives of character progression are only doing such when it benefits them and wrathful when it doesnt.

Which are people in Group A, the ones who do LFR for fun.

Whatever their reasoning or opinions are, they aren't affecting anyone else's experience, unlike Group B who are more likely the type to get easily frustrated when things don't go according to plan and take it out on the raid. It's a bit of a broad generalization, but it's true. People who go in looking for rewards aren't playing for the same reasons as those who simply want to play LFR for the sake of LFR, and an elitist mindset is more likely to kick in.

[eErike]

Because we are not forced to do them.. if pet battles would give us better gear - we would complain.
pet battles, pvp, challenge modes do not affect raiding!
Don't force raiders to farm lfr on top of normal, heroic..
We hate it, killing Garrosh 4 times a week! But we can't just ignore it as well!
We would do ANYTHING(even race change for some) to get best possible results!

It is funny when someone claims to be a hardcore raider and complaining about having to do LFR in the same paragraph.
If you are hardcore you don't have anything to do in LFR, at all, just nothing.
If you actually need stuff in LFR you are not hardcore, stop trying to act like it and get over yourself.

[Shink]

Remove what made the LFR so "appealing" to the masses that made them lazy and entitled (i.e gear & increase the difficulty back to "normal" range)


the idea behind it was to give people a way to find groups without relying on guilds (because of time constraints) to allow more people to play the game & see content, not become lazy entitled bastards that want a mindless way to get gear

[Stonecloak]

Remove what made the LFR so "appealing" to the masses that made them lazy and entitled (i.e gear & increase the difficulty back to "normal" range)


the idea behind it was to give people a way to find groups without relying on guilds (because of time constraints) to allow more people to play the game & see content, not become lazy entitled bastards that want a mindless way to get gear

This is very clear to me as well. Yet, I don't think it's entirely comprehended by everyone.

[Deleted]

I voted no. reasoning being that LFR attracts unwanted players like a fire attracts moths.
LFR is important for my personal enjoyment as i prefer to play with skilled players who read up on boss tactics, properly enchant their gear and know their class without being having to socialize or join a guild, LFR acts like a trap for bad players which is important as its less chance they get into the same raid group as me and waste my time causing unneeded wipes.

This is actually not about elitism or anything like that, i simply want to play with players who are on a skill level as high as myself.
I dont want to face bronze players in sc2, neither do i want to group with LFR players in WoW for same reason.

[Amerissis]

LFR is NOT an endgame

It might not be for you, but it is for many people. How hard can it be to realise different people are actually DIFFERENT? For me, it's endgame.

- it's not even raiding. It is seeing content - nothing more!

Oh, it's raiding. Unorganised, simplified raiding, but raiding nonetheless. It's still with 25 people, multiple big bosses, boss abilities that can kill you (don't tell me no one ever died in any LFR you did...).

I can kill every boss while afking/following - that is NOT raiding!

Of course you can, because enough other people are pulling your weight. Just as you can in normal and heroic raids. Did you never notice high end guild sell heroic raid runs? They carry you through, you don't even have to do anything, does that mean heroic raiding is NOT raiding? Come back to this when everyone can AFK/follow and bosses go down...

On top of it - lfr takes MORE time than using "openraid" for flex runs.

It's not only a matter of time, it's matter of convenience. I can enter queue and do something else and I can leave halfway the raid and no one will care. You can't do that in Flex.

Openraid takes a LOT less time for each wing. You may even find some new friends that way!

And you can't find new friends in LFR? You do realize there are real people in there, too, right? Not just NPCs.

Don't call LFR "endgame" - it does not stand close to organised raiding(which is real pve endgame)!
organised raiding > seeing content.. it does require different(different!) rewards!

1. Endgame is whatever you do at max level. For many people, that is LFR, thus it's endgame. In your world, normal raids aren't endgame either, because you have heroic raids after that.
2. No one thinks LFR is organised raiding. It's still endgame.
3. LFR does give different rewards (a lot less powerful ones then normal raiding) and come WoD it won't even give set bonuses and trinkets any more.

Just because you are too lazy, does not mean there is noting else!

What the hell does wanting to do LFR have to do with lazy? You really lack empathy if you can't imagine why someone would do LFR.

You sound dumb!

No, actually... you do.

There ARE tools for people who have limited time! Such tool will be INGAME WoD!
So no more poor excuses to do lfr! at least - NOT time! Lfr takes a LOT more(because of queue).

Those tools are nice for people who want to run Flex, but not for people who want to run LFR. LFR is still easier, less time consuming, more forgiving, easier to quit halfway a raid, no idiotic requirements in gear (iLvL 580 for content that drops 560), etc. How do you think I will fare in Flex when I have to leave or take breaks during a raid all the time? I'll get kicked and not invited again, that's what will happen! No such problem in LFR. I also like to kick back and relax from a hard days work and not bother with people shouting about tactics and swearing at you for doing something wrong. I see no place for Flex in that either.

There is a LOT more than LFR.. you just have to put some effort in game!

It's a game. I play for FUN. I put enough effort in my work, I play a game to relax. And no, I don't expect the same gear as normals or anything, but I don't understand why you would want to remove LFR.

[eErike]

Remove what made the LFR so "appealing" to the masses that made them lazy and entitled (i.e gear & increase the difficulty back to "normal" range)


the idea behind it was to give people a way to find groups without relying on guilds (because of time constraints) to allow more people to play the game & see content, not become lazy entitled bastards that want a mindless way to get gear

The gear you get is conciderably worse than in normal/flex. The tactics could indeed get more like normal (eg a bit harder) but you would still need to let the bosses drop gear. How would you be able to do the current tier in gear that you got from 5man HCs and timeless isle if you on top of that increase the difficulty and concider that you have to do it with 25 others with no communication and almost no coordination?

[Deleted]

No LFR if anything needs to be easier, i remember tanking Nazgrim in LFR and well, i was not amused...

[Otimus]

LFR is NOT an endgame - it's not even raiding. It is seeing content - nothing more!
I can kill every boss while afking/following - that is NOT raiding!

On top of it - lfr takes MORE time than using "openraid" for flex runs.
Blizzard will implement such tool(openraid) in WoD! If you have limited time - use it!
Problem solved!

Right now lfr waiting takes 30-60min(dps) + time you spend clearing each wing. Hour on average.
Openraid takes a LOT less time for each wing. You may even find some new friends that way!
---

Don't call LFR "endgame" - it does not stand close to organised raiding(which is real pve endgame)!
organised raiding > seeing content.. it does require different(different!) rewards!

Just because you are too lazy, does not mean there is noting else!
You sound dumb! There ARE tools for people who have limited time!
Such tool will be INGAME WoD!
So no more poor excuses to do lfr! at least - NOT time! Lfr takes a LOT more(because of queue).
---

P.S.
I don't think it should removed as well, lfr is nice tool to see content - i use it and i will keep using it(for alts), but NOT on my main like i used to! Tier sets and OP trinkets had to go.
Those items should be motivation to step up.. to organised raiding. Not free epics for seeing content!

I don't understand, how people can be so limited! Lazy.. all those poor excuses!
There is a LOT more than LFR.. you just have to put some effort in game!

He meant it was the end game in that that is all the players do at the "end" of their game. Stop trying to attach emotion to things. It's the absolute truth that for most people who reach level cap, LFR is their endgame, and likely will still be in WoD until the community magically becomes nicer and is willing to accept people who aren't already doing, or have already done the content the people want to do, or it becomes feasible to do content unguilded, with strangers, without a queue, for the first time. All of that is probably never going to happen.

You may hate the whole idea of that, but that's the reality of things.

[Manhands]

"Raid Finder still has an important place within the new Warlords raid structure. Many players cannot or simply do not want to commit to a fixed group. And no matter how convenient we make organized raiding through Group Finder, it’ll never be something you can jump in and do for 45 minutes during your downtime on a busy day, the way you might do a Raid Finder wing."

Are you a person who likes to jump in for 45 min during downtime? No? Well there are people who are. Don't remove.

[emni]

Because we are not forced to do them.. if pet battles would give us better gear - we would complain.
pet battles, pvp, challenge modes do not affect raiding!
Don't force raiders to farm lfr on top of normal, heroic..
We hate it, killing Garrosh 4 times a week! But we can't just ignore it as well!
We would do ANYTHING(even race change for some) to get best possible results!

Blizzard could separate tier bonuses(organised raiding from lfr), they shouldn't work together!
Same with trinkets - make them less attractive for organised raiding!
That way we would not feel forced to go lfr - and you even could keep tier sets - everybody happy!
Otherwise - just remove sets and op trinkets from lfr.. no other way!

Remember legendary chain?
First time in wow history legendary was nothing more than upgrade!
Because everyone was burned out already.. lfr on top of raiding is too much.. we invest 12+ hours a week(without lfr).

No heroic raider in Siege is feeling forced into LFR. This is a ridiculous myth. What exactly can you get in LFR that isn't better from hc ToT which most hc raiders came from? (also 4 times? since when does hc and normal not share a lockout?)

All this macho talk seems to come from normal raiders. Which is awfully ironic because they have the guts to call LFR players baddies when they themselves aren't exactly killing anything hard.

[PrairieChicken]

No heroic raider in Siege is feeling forced into LFR. This is a ridiculous myth. What exactly can you get in LFR that isn't better from hc ToT which most hc raiders came from? (also 4 times? since when does hc and normal not share a lockout?)

All this macho talk seems to come from normal raiders. Which is awfully ironic because they have the guts to call LFR players baddies when they themselves aren't exactly killing anything hard.

So see simcraft values for trinkets before posting something like this. And can we get that "no true heroic raiders whine about lfr" myth out? Because large portion of them do feel forced to run it.

[emni]

So see simcraft values for trinkets before posting something like this.

I did. Maybe you should have a look yourself.

For a mage for example heroic thunderforged trinkets sim higher than all of the Siege LFR trinkets and even flex trinkets. EDIT: Actually, heroic ToT trinkets and even some normal thunderforged sim higher than LFR SoO trinkets.

In any case, even if the problem was solely trinkets, then the problem is obviously trinket design, not LFR design.

[Terridon]

With Blizz taking some radical steps in WoD such as removing flying from Draenor, for one patch minimum that is, I'm wondering whats your stance on this?

With this new flexible mode there should be no more excuses on inability to find raid members, and it's even easier than normal mode so that argument goes out of window aswell. I would support that move, just as I support no flying. I think LFR is just one step too far in removing the need to socialize alltogether in an mmo.

So, what's your stance on this?

Keep it.
Even with the changes, finding a flex group (or normal as it is in wod), takes way more effort than randomly signing up. People also care more, because you can still die. Specially in the beginning of the expansion.
I don't have problems socializing with a bunch of people in each lfr when i go there. Is more nice people than retards in each one, so i focus on finding those and making them talk.
Do i prefer HCs with my own group? Hell yeah, but i don't see a reason to take a highly popular option away from the players. I like that they don't give set bonuses, and probably not the best trinkets either, so you won't have reason to go there if you really hate it.

[nekobaka]

"Raid Finder still has an important place within the new Warlords raid structure. Many players cannot or simply do not want to commit to a fixed group. And no matter how convenient we make organized raiding through Group Finder, it’ll never be something you can jump in and do for 45 minutes during your downtime on a busy day, the way you might do a Raid Finder wing."

Are you a person who likes to jump in for 45 min during downtime? No? Well there are people who are. Don't remove.

45mins sign me up, oh 1 hour queue time, nope. Would be nice if LFR functioned like it is supposed to be, but MoP shows how much bullshit the time argument is with rarely a complaint about it yet players will keep saying it is fine and casual, bullshit it is no-lifer is what it is.

[aidenhall]

^What he said

[Vankrys]

REmove the LFR difficulty but keep the LFR grouping mechanic.
Send the group formed with LFR system into flex difficulty (and don't nerf it obviously).
Keep the tier set obviously

[Deleted]

Flex is a social darwinists paradise. Selection over all. People that dont fit to the exaggerated ilevel requirements are filtered.