'Exploit' in boss fights allowed? (Blackfuse-Hunter-Post)

[Deja Thoris]

"Pattern Recognition – After using the transport pipes to reach the conveyor belt, the assembly line recognizes a player's biological signature and will reject further attempts to use them for 1 min."

This description is clear! It states that the ASSEMBLY LINE will recognize a player, not the PIPE! So stepping on the LINE while having the debuff should return the player immediately to the lower platform. Using Disengage to prevent this is just a bug.
And Blizzard is capable of fixing that, see the blood bug @ Klaxxi heroic with Skeer and BoP.

I bolded the part you seem incapable of understanding. I love peoples selective reading ^_^

[Deleted]

Hehe quite funny, I dont really see how people think this is an exploit other than clever use of class-mechanics.

[Dasani]

Having a hunter on belts 100% of the time is a huge advantage. Having people rotate means a big DPS loss from time spent running to and from the belts unless you tank the boss right beside the pipe which most don't do as they like to tank it where the bombs spawn instead which is the opposite side of the room. Whereas having two people assigned to the belt full time means losing their dps the entire time, however you make up for it with everyone else basically just tunneling the boss the whole time. You don't have to worry about whose turn it is next or worrying about some people sucking at belts, etc. It's also more dangerous to run back and forth across the platform as you can put shit in bad places like the saw blades, and also having to worry about getting to the pipe during empowered laser, etc. The fight is just much, much easier with two dedicated peeps on pipes.

Honestly I don't really believe in "expoits" as far as boss mechanics go at all. If you are capable of doing something, you should be allowed to do it. If the designers lacked the foresight of having an invisible wall there to prevent people from disengaging up or using rocket boots to jump across, that is their own fault. Using your abilities to give you an advantage in a fight is what doing a fight should be all about. The only things I consider real exploits are the weird, overpowered nonsense like when hunters get ridiculous, temporary buffs on their pets thats do obscene damage and dismiss them so they keep those buffs until needed or if an ability is bugged and makes you immune to all damage or something like that. Something horribly broken.

Hunters can't make the belts a non-factor, all they do is make it so they can do each belt instead of sharing the responsibility. The belt mechanic still exists. I say it falls well inside the "allowed" side of the line. If they could do something to make it so no one ever had to do belts at all, then it would be a problem.

[Noima]

I see this kind of thing where hunters can do every belt as good use of game mechanics, they can make the fight a lot easier, but usually have a bit of trade-off like you lose their DPS totally, but overall are not game breaking, and you can complete the fight without using it.

However about 4 weeks ago, you could use a hunter/pull/FD combo on siege, while the rest of the group was fighting spoils/thok and constantly reset all 3+ min CDs, and Bloodlust. So obviously having those up 100% of the fight clearly is game breaking and totally trivialises every aspect of the fight. Those sorts of things I don't agree with, and am quite happy that Blizz did go and fix it.

[trystero]

I bolded the part you seem incapable of understanding. I love peoples selective reading ^_^

After reading that, I have to agree with you - the language states that using the pipe is a condition of acquiring the debuff. Therefore, don't use the pipe, don't acquire the debuff. It's really no different from solo soaking Blood Rage.

[Tharkkun]

- Ra'den was just a bad boss design with little to no testing. If he had been on the PTR he would have never reached live with that design. Though they did the same with Norushen (first heroic version was the same as on PTR which was already reported as bad design as doing the dps challenge was just useless)
- Dark Shamans: splitting the bosses is no use clever use of mechanics. Splitting bosses has already been done thousands of time. Having to use three tanks in 10men was just bad boss design (but nothing new, see Halfus)
- Spoils: Why play the boss with a terrible tactic if it's easy enough doing normal?
- Garrosh: just bad boss design if the best tactic is to ignore a whole phase. just like Norushen 1st heroic version. They could have easily prevented that by pushing his energy to max if he isn't engaged during an intermission. So just Blizz fault



"Pattern Recognition – After using the transport pipes to reach the conveyor belt, the assembly line recognizes a player's biological signature and will reject further attempts to use them for 1 min."

This description is clear! It states that the ASSEMBLY LINE will recognize a player, not the PIPE! So stepping on the LINE while having the debuff should return the player immediately to the lower platform. Using Disengage to prevent this is just a bug.
And Blizzard is capable of fixing that, see the blood bug @ Klaxxi heroic with Skeer and BoP.

All those examples are clever use of game mechanics. They weren't intended but we as players created scenarios that the developers didn't foresee. If Blizzard determines it completely cheese the fights then they will hotfix it. It's their game so they use their own discretion. Believe me, if you have any latency at all, the disengage trick isn't reliable. I have 19ms.

[Hallu]

Believe me, if you have any latency at all, the disengage trick isn't reliable. I have 19ms.

Strange, our hunter's have been doing it for at least 12 weeks without any problems.

[Tharkkun]

Strange, our hunter's have been doing it for at least 12 weeks without any problems.

They are just better at me than it then.

[Kraineth]

It is the same reason Stamp Roar still clears the malkorok debuff, the same reason warlocks are still imbalanced, the same reason they never fixed Ra-den.

It is way too late in the tier to take those advantages away, because many guilds have already killed those bosses with those bugs/imbalances. Blizzard rarely forces a fight to be "harder" once the content has launched. The only time in recent history that they did this was Norushen Heroic, where guilds just zerged down the boss and largely ignored mechanics.

Believe me, if you have any latency at all, the disengage trick isn't reliable. I have 19ms.

I'm not sure how you think latency has any effect on standing still and simply hitting disengage

[pallyopness]

I think it's weird that they fixed rogues being able to do it and left other classes alone (hunter, boomkin, monk, warlock).

As for the tactic, it does make that portion of the fight a whole lot easier, but I don't think it makes the fight any less interesting, just less annoying.

I have never heard of a warlock soloing belts? How is this accomplished by warlocks?

[Hypasonic]

Even though this is possible, its not exactly faceroll initially. When you are the sole hunter on the belt, you have to make sure you use your abilities exactly right, you have to make sure you use deterrence at the right time, use your health stone at the right time, its not all plain sailing. I was doing it in our alt run a few weeks back, didn't take long to get used to it but there are certain things you must do to ensure you don't mess it all up.

Obviously, some people will think "well yeah, that's what heroic modes are about" which is true, but this is just a bit different in that regard.

With regard to blizz's reply regarding this though, I'm a bit surprised really. They didn't intend it to be this way, but they are happy with it.....how many other "clever use of game mechanics" and such, have they NOT been happy with and subsequently banned people for? Seems a bit strange to say the least...

[Nnug]

I have never heard of a warlock soloing belts? How is this accomplished by warlocks?

Before fight use glyphed eye of kilrogg to put your portal on the belt and voila

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I consider it fair game if Blizzard hasn't fixed the issue within a month of it becoming public knowledge. I have not been in a position for this to affect my raid's progression rate for many years now.

[Anzen]

OK, since it's fine by Blizz - how exactly is this done ?

How to solo the belt can be seen in the first few seconds of the video below:



That said, Blizzard have already stated they don't like buffing fights (as in making them harder for certain groups). It's also their reasoning behind why they won't nerf Warlocks; they don't want guilds unable to kill bosses they'd already been able to kill.

Though obviously there is a thin line; extreme cases of exploiting (where bosses are trivialized beyond reason) do get hotfixed.

I tried this last night on my hunter, managed to land on the belt 2/6 times :'( harder than it looks. If you don't angle yourself properly, you won't gain enough height disengaging and will hit the side of the belt and fall to your death.

[Tharkkun]

It is the same reason Stamp Roar still clears the malkorok debuff, the same reason warlocks are still imbalanced, the same reason they never fixed Ra-den.

It is way too late in the tier to take those advantages away, because many guilds have already killed those bosses with those bugs/imbalances. Blizzard rarely forces a fight to be "harder" once the content has launched. The only time in recent history that they did this was Norushen Heroic, where guilds just zerged down the boss and largely ignored mechanics.


I'm not sure how you think latency has any effect on standing still and simply hitting disengage

Oh I'm sorry you jump off the belt? Try staying on the belt and disengaging as the leash hits maintaining your position on the belt the whole fight. I must be the only person doing it the hard way.

[Hypasonic]

How to solo the belt can be seen in the first few seconds of the video below:



That said, Blizzard have already stated they don't like buffing fights (as in making them harder for certain groups). It's also their reasoning behind why they won't nerf Warlocks; they don't want guilds unable to kill bosses they'd already been able to kill.

Though obviously there is a thin line; extreme cases of exploiting (where bosses are trivialized beyond reason) do get hotfixed.

I tried this last night on my hunter, managed to land on the belt 2/6 times :'( harder than it looks. If you don't angle yourself properly, you won't gain enough height disengaging and will hit the side of the belt and fall to your death.

Did you have the disengage glyph? There's really nothing to it if you have that. Oh, and you need to jump prior to disengaging :P Maybe you already did that, but thought I'd mention it incase.

[Libertarian]

Once people have defeated the fight using strategies such as those it would give them an unfair advantage to then nerf it for people coming behind them. That's why they don't change it.

sac dagger says otherwise

[Deleted]

Simple reason why :

A lot of guilds use it, a lot of guilds with the hunter strat going away, would probably struggle to kill it and it would be progression for the belt group again. I know they have nerfed the rogues and such before that, but at that point hunters weren't really going on that much compared to after the nerf. In the end they couldn't do much about it besides making an invisible wall, but that would make more problems for blizzard and could break the belt as a whole.

[Sonrisa]

The whole disengage/wild charge trick, is MUCH easier to do if you go into the pipe again (with the debuff) get puked out and then use the skill with considerable hight you gain from getting ejected. Need to be careful not to use too son because you will hit an invisible wall though.

[Deleted]

Once people have defeated the fight using strategies such as those it would give them an unfair advantage to then nerf it for people coming behind them. That's why they don't change it.

100% not true. They nerfed rogues being able to do every one. and that was the strat for the top 20~ kills.

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Best example of Blizz ignoring something is Firelands Rag triforce strat that they didn't change but said it was a bug.