Please blanket nerf and do not implement item upgrades.

[Edc]

Pretty sure if you do LFR, Flex, and Normal/Heroic you can get capped. Although I do agree. In WoD apparently they are going to make valor capping less vital (not sure how unless they are going to make valor worthless for raiding.)

Yeah, you can get capped that way, LFR is hardly what you call raiding however and Flex is clearly not made for a heroic raider, the latter being somewhat acceptable to complete for valor

[AeneasBK]

TBH I'm just surprised people still care about Seige of Orgrimmar.

[psiko74]

This item upgrade stuff isn't needed. SoO heroic is simple.

[Trubo]

I take it you have never been into any serious raiding and you play a class which can use the same gear for all three specs (lock,mage,rogue,hunter)

And in that case you've lost your argument.

And you're grossly overvaluing the ability for ONE player to do multiple roles versus MULTIPLE players to do multiple roles. Serious guilds have the people to swap people as needed without robbing gear for a main player so that another player can gear up a spec that is less likely to be used.

If you're that gung-ho about doing all that is possible with one player then said player is going to have multiple classes that can be swapped as needed.

[Deleted]

I take it you have never been into any serious raiding and you play a class which can use the same gear for all three specs (lock,mage,rogue,hunter)

And in that case you've lost your argument.

I am currently progressing Garrosh on 25man and I play a druid.

It doesnt matter I can cover 3 roles in 4 specs, few guilds has hybridclasses constantly switch specs around like you imply.

[schwarzkopf]

I have so many timeless coins that VP now mean nothing to me, I've been capped at 3000 for a few months - it is good to have something to spend them.

[Deleted]

Responses here are hilarious.

People get multiple sets of gear through things that would otherwise be disenchanted. On the same note they are also able to play those specs, all 2-4 of them if they want too. Ranks are a huge part of the end game which cater to this "minority" you speak of, which frankly is expanding, more than clueless flakes seem to realise even before item level upgrades etc.

If someone cant clear the raid in all the best gear provided before the boss they are doing, then they cant. Sorry go do LFR so you can see what happens after and maybe get better at your class or the encounters.

[Bullettime]

Watcher stated on Twitter that it's about an 8% nerf spread out over a period instead of up front.

I don't know why they don't just nerf Siege by 5% at the patch then another 5% after a month or w/e. It's ends up giving the same nerf over the same amount of time but part of the effect immediately, impacts alts and offspecs, eliminates some of the grind that this change will cause, and has no bearing on anyone outside of the raid like world PvP.

edit: The Valor cap needs to be increased at the bare minimum here if they want this to be the nerf. But two separate 5% nerfs could cause the same severity of nerf over the same time without the negative implications.

[Krazzorx]

Watcher stated on Twitter that it's about an 8% nerf spread out over a period instead of up front.

I don't know why they don't just nerf Siege by 5% at the patch then another 5% after a month or w/e. It's ends up giving the same nerf over the same amount of time but part of the effect immediately, impacts alts and offspecs, eliminates some of the grind that this change will cause, and has no bearing on anyone outside of the raid like world PvP.

edit: The Valor cap needs to be increased at the bare minimum here if they want this to be the nerf. But two separate 5% nerfs could cause the same severity of nerf over the same time without the negative implications.

Perception is reality. I know most of the people in my guild HATE the idea of blanket nerfs. For some reason they don't mind VP upgrades though. If the majority perceive one better than the other, Blizz is gonna do it.

[Deleted]

edit: The Valor cap needs to be increased at the bare minimum here if they want this to be the nerf. But two separate 5% nerfs could cause the same severity of nerf over the same time without the negative implications.

From a business PoV, the valor upgrades make a lot more sense, because they keep people busy longer than plain SoO nerfs.

[AeneasBK]

I am currently progressing Garrosh on 25man and I play a druid.

It doesnt matter I can cover 3 roles in 4 specs, few guilds has hybridclasses constantly switch specs around like you imply.

When did you start progressing in SoO? March? How can your 25 man guild not had enough loot to gear all 4 of your specs 2 times over? When you made your earlier posts I had assumed you were in some loot-starved 10 man guild. Now I just don't even...

[Hyve]

A ~12% increase through Valor Upgrades is the best option, people don't feel like the content itself has been made easier, rather we've grown more powerful. At ~12%, that's more then enough to help those guilds who are struggling, and it makes farming a lot easier.

The fact that you choose to operate all four of your classes specialisations, or anyone for that matter who plays the equivalent of four classes, should not be the deciding factor. Many people I know choose to only play one, maybe two classes with any seriousness, while the others are just for fun.

[Bullettime]

From a business PoV, the valor upgrades make a lot more sense, because they keep people busy longer than plain SoO nerfs.

My point was, simply nerfing the content 5% then another 5% later over the same time would accomplish the same thing. People would still stick out the game to see their progress with the nerfs but it doesn't make alts feel even more miserable to play and would have no negative implication on things like world PvP. As it stands, the change, with the current Valor cap, makes things more unnecessarily grindy and makes alts more frustrating for the same net effect as two staggered nerfs.

A ~12% increase through Valor Upgrades is the best option, people don't feel like the content itself has been made easier, rather we've grown more powerful. At ~12%, that's more then enough to help those guilds who are struggling, and it makes farming a lot easier.

The fact that you choose to operate all four of your classes specialisations, or anyone for that matter who plays the equivalent of four classes, should not be the deciding factor. Many people I know choose to only play one, maybe two classes with any seriousness, while the others are just for fun.

It's 8% according to Watcher.

[Kiniun]

The game's turned into complete garbage. I honestly cannot understand why people still play. Oh well:/

[Trubo]

Omg lol, made me laugh. thank you for that one. Double dps spec thinking he knows what it's like to contribute to the raid with multiple specs. Your argument is lost already.

As a Druid I know what's it like to contribute with multiple specs. As a Resto main spec I generally healed through Thok with one tanking exception for Nazgrim cause we didn't need the number of healers we ran and my off spec is Guardian. After Thok I sat my Druid (who I no longer raid with and was 574/566 Resto/Guardian) to bring my Fury Warrior (~550 ilvl with gear I got on my own rather than taking from mains) as the raid utility a Fury Warrior brings > Feral/Balance Druid as we needed more people to cover the belt and had plenty of range/healers already. By the time we killed Siegecrafter my Warrior's ilvl was so much better than my Feral/Balance gear that there was no reason to go back to my Druid except for very very rare times when we simply lacked healers as I could still tank the Ironblades on Nazgrim as a Prot Warrior just as well as I could as a Guardian Druid.

So yeah, I personally see it silly to worry about maintaining that many gearsets on a single character when multiple characters and/or multiple people can do the same thing with less management.

When did you start progressing in SoO? March? How can your 25 man guild not had enough loot to gear all 4 of your specs 2 times over? When you made your earlier posts I had assumed you were in some loot-starved 10 man guild. Now I just don't even...

Similar case as the person you mentioned: As a fairly casual 25 man guild we've been hurt pretty badly by attendance issues + swimming in Agility/Int DPS so I never got a great chance to build stuff for a Feral/Balance spec as I never got a chance at specific pieces of loot.

[Deleted]

The game's turned into complete garbage. I honestly cannot understand why people still play. Oh well:/

The good thing is: You don't have to understand it. Different people enjoy different things. It's that simple.

[Aboubacar]

i definitely dont wanna play a new alt after this lol. Idk why no catch-up for alts like half-price upgrades or weekly cap removed...

Sure this is great for people's mains and their main specs, but getting my OS gear to a decent level is awful (and it's already 2/4 lol imagine if it was all 0/4 hahaha)

- - - Updated - - -

From a business PoV, the valor upgrades make a lot more sense, because they keep people busy longer than plain SoO nerfs.

it will probably keep some guilds from giving up after being stuck on x boss for months

[KaPe]

It's 8% according to Watcher.

It cannot possibly be 8% because item levels aren't linear, each ilvl is 1% increase over the previous one. Not to mention that class scaling isn't linear either and 8 more level can allow to reach some new haste breakpoints or maybe chain crit for more pyros or whatever.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

Yes, it is a timesink. So what? If you don't like it, don't do it. Gosh.

"This game is no fun for me to play and now I have to play it even more, thanks Blizz."

Seriously, some people need to take a break from the game, or choose a different game altogether.

[Deleted]

"This game is no fun for me to play and now I have to play it even more, thanks Blizz."

Seriously, some people need to take a break from the game, or choose a different game altogether.

This post was saying, this game was still fun for me to play despite a tier going on for 9 months. This game is no longer fun now that the 'farm' timesink of rank competing and playing offspec / alts is being destroyed.