DPS Balance - Are Locks too OP?

[mistahwilshire]

Locks have been overpowered this entire expansion..

[Deleted]

Sad though how they completely raped Demonology and made it useless compared to Destro/Affli

[Durantye]

Even if affliction is horrendous on single target we have two other specs. I think we'll manage. There don't tend to be many purely single target fights, especially important ones. Plus the definition of horrendous is somewhat different compared to what it used to be.

I'm not saying warlocks will be bad next tier, I'm saying that losing snap shotting should be a big enough nerf to affliction that not much else should be necessary.

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Locks have been overpowered this entire expansion..

Locks have been STRONG this entire tier with splotches of overpowered, this tier though we are broken as fuck in pve it isn't even funny. Demo in ToT has nothing on Affliction in SoO, though yes demo was OP it was also difficult to play.

[lunaru]

locks are one of the classes that scale very well with their stats and therefore are one of the top classes period
They bring alot to the table with the single target and aoe.

I played a dk for the longest time and ranged was one of those classes that brought the fun back

[MetroStratics]

Not at all, I'm really confused why this is said so often. Heroic warforged Black Blood is LUDICROUS, no doubt, but otherwise warlocks are pretty stable. Our rogues, Hunters, Mages, Enhancement Shaman, and even Bombkins all do the same or more single target on most fights.

Warlocks are fine, and even on AOE fights like Seigecrafter, there are plenty of classes such as Mage, Elemental Shaman, Frost DK, Enhancement etc that all do as much aoe or better.

[Archimand]

Please... do you really think that 150k difference is being OP? It's just your people underperforming as hell.



They are just bad, deal with it. Locks are a little bit stronger than others, but there are always classess who are better than the others, whether it's an arcane mage, a feral druid, combat rogue, enha shaman or a warlock.

If your people can not pull at least 360-3650k in 570+ gear, they're just bad. Not talking about UH dks or shadow priests, since these specs are just bad in general :P I was doing ~420k single target DPS(100% single target with nothing to pad the meters, such as malkorok slimes) with my rogue who was 578 and I'm by no means a rogue guru, I've played him only for about 4-5 months, so I had still quite a lot to learn when it was about min-maxing.

As Kamuimac said, the rest of your raid is heavily underperforming while your warlock knows how to play really well.

i cant pull 3650k single target dps in 580 gear


Warlock is strong atm and to ppl that say its unchanged next expension have no clue what they talk about.


snapshot is gone so it means warlock get huge nerf

[NickCageFanatic]

Blizzard has acknowledged that Warlocks are the outlier this expansion. This is the golden age of Warlocks, never again will they be this god like in damage for an entire expansion.

Your raid member is a good player on top of playing the most OP damage dealer in the game by a lot...such is the outcome you have someone who seems like they are on a totally different level of skill when in fact they are not.

[Crisius]

Another 8 itemlevels is going to make warlock even more fun. Dat mastery.

That being said, warlocks aren't the sole dominators on every single fight, and if that's how it is in your raids then the other players are either playing subpar classes, speccs or the warlock is simply better than them. Sure, the potential to be the highest DPS on a lot of fights through whoring on adds on Nazgrim or shadowburning unnecessarily, but that doesn't mean the damage they do on damage meters reflects their actual contribution to downing a boss. Also I'd like to see a warlock similarly geared to my enhancement shaman beat it on Juggernaut.

[klogaroth]

I'm not saying warlocks will be bad next tier, I'm saying that losing snap shotting should be a big enough nerf to affliction that not much else should be necessary.

If anything it'll be such a nerf that I think specs that relied heavily upon snapshotting will required buffs.

[Clrg]

I have 3 toons over 570 one of which is a mage and they definitely cover all the bases, Affliction will be just like shadowpriest next FROM LOSING SNAP SHOTTING. If anything affliction will be very near the bottom without snap shotting next tier just like s priest they will perform horrendous single target. Destro performs AOE atm (which is supposed to be demo's job) because of EVERYTHING I FUCKING MENTIONED.

Blizzard understands how snap shotting affects classes? Do I NEED to link how affliction is at 1.3m dps on protectors atm and 2nd place is like 600k??? Obviously they aren't entirely aware of how it works or that wouldn't have happened.

The only warlock spec that will need changes in WoD is Destro and it likely will just require an ICD to the ember regen from shadowburn and making it no longer affected by havoc.

You have no idea what you are talking about if you dont think they arent going to buff the dots or the filler.

[Deleted]

Surprised there are no more threads about it, seeing as in WoD locks are remaining relatively unchanged we are told.

Mechanicwise: No.

Numberwise: Yes.

[Raiju]

Another 8 itemlevels is going to make warlock even more fun. Dat mastery.

That being said, warlocks aren't the sole dominators on every single fight, and if that's how it is in your raids then the other players are either playing subpar classes, speccs or the warlock is simply better than them. Sure, the potential to be the highest DPS on a lot of fights through whoring on adds on Nazgrim or shadowburning unnecessarily, but that doesn't mean the damage they do on damage meters reflects their actual contribution to downing a boss. Also I'd like to see a warlock similarly geared to my enhancement shaman beat it on Juggernaut.

Assuming you're killing it in any decent amount of time warlocks should absolutely smash the enhance shaman (and anyone else really) into the ground. Enhance is strong single target but it isn't beating affli on short fights.

@Durantye a lot more changes are happening than losing snapshotting - every expansion we go through changes in stats, in their scaling %'s at max level, and in WoD everything is going to scale without a base. This means by default everything HAS to be rebalanced, and the snapshotting will mean absolutely nothing as it was already gone before the balancing even took place. (unless you believe they keep it in till the last balance changes for funsies?)

The reason warlocks got away with things in SoO is blizzard were busy with teh new stats. The amplify trinket originally gave over DOUBLE what it does on live, and they spent most of their time tweaking this on beta (and other new trinkets) because people were hitting 4m chaos bolts and the like.

By the time the patch was live they couldn't nerf warlocks since as they already said (and is posted in this thread but you seem to keep ignoring) - it would be nerfing guilds. Bringing warlocks in line would be too severe a change for peoples progress that they physically can't without wrecking the tier sideways. It's not that they didn't notice, it's that they didn't have time to notice. Last tier Demo was all the rage and before that affliction - both of these got brought into line respectively but the problem is now both affli and destro are top fights (affli being grossly OP on a handful and destro just being too strong all around), with no time to observe this on beta.

But hey, it's the people kidding themselves into thinking destro isn't really OP just because affli stands out more on a couple fights that are in for a shock when they actually have to play comparable to their non-warlock guildies to retain their spot in WoD. Especially with healthstones no longer being unique and gateway being nerfed.

[Deleted]

That's the price you pay for being competitive. If you can't pay it, DON'T PLAY IT. I dumped that lifestyle in WoW years ago, and could never be happier. And FYI, that shit is between YOU.. and YOUR GUILD. Not everyone else. Do you not see whining about how 'OP'ed' a class is as silly now?

Good grief I feel like this isn't a warlock thread but a guild therapy thread.

[IMG]http://www.evanravitz.com/doctor/lucy.jpg[ /IMG]

I am simply explaining how a certain class being OP can affect the other people in a guild/Raid

[Aboubacar]

Yes, that is why warlocks are OP. They dominate nearly every fight since they don't have disadvantages dps-wise really (other than thok, I guess. The only ones not affected there are hunters though)

kinda, they have no weakness on Thok either tbh, it's generally a just caster skill-test rather than a straight-up weakness The caster/melee balance is evened out to an extent by the kite phase anyway.

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Mechanicwise: No.

Numberwise: Yes.

Beg to differ. Full embers 24/7 on anything w/ more than one target is broken mechanics. 2 embers for a shadowburn is a broken mechanic. Spammable shadowburn is a broken mechanic. could go on, but yea, they have some broken OP mechanics, it's bigger issue than numbers. Mechanics are why destro is broken, snapshotting is why aff is broken.

[Raiju]

kinda, they have no weakness on Thok either tbh, it's generally a just caster skill-test rather than a straight-up weakness The caster/melee balance is evened out to an extent by the kite phase anyway.

I get that it's possible, but not chain casting is a non-ignorable dps loss anyway for the break you have between every roar - and the comparison is more to hunters than to melee. I get that they still compete with hunters on thok regardless, but that's just more the imbalance than them not being disadvantaged.

[Deleted]

destro just being too strong all around

That's just not true.

[Kulzan]

The problem with warlock is that they benefit too good from stats compared to other classes. so the more gear they get. the stronger they become. mastery gives them more damage. crit gives them more crit damage. I think warlock is the only class that get more crit damage from critical strike rating. not only critchance. I know crit is the worst stat for destro warlock atm. but its still not a weak stat. and with more haste they are getting embers faster.

[Deleted]

That's just not true.

Proraider score doesn't work how you think it works.

[Aboubacar]

That's just not true.

lmfao, it is on any fight with more than one target. Embers are the most broken resource in the game we don't need to check logs to even know that. It's common sense. 2+ targets, swim in embers and do amazing relevant single target damage with cbolt.

Aff is because of bboy and snapshotting, the spec would be in it's place w/o either of those 2 things. Its resource is in an ok spot (could use more passive shards tho). demo is fine, and extremely competitive in the hands of skilled players as well.

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The problem with warlock is that they benefit too good from stats compared to other classes. so the more gear they get. the stronger they become. mastery gives them more damage. crit gives them more crit damage. I think warlock is the only class that get more crit damage from critical strike rating. not only critchance. I know crit is the worst stat for destro warlock atm. but its still not a weak stat. and with more haste they are getting embers faster.

and this. ALL their stats are amazing typically, when you look at other classes there's usually a totally trash stat and 1 really good one, lock is totally different stat balance.

[Varlak]

I don't get why people complain about "OP'd" PvE dps. Things die faster. Everyone gets loot. If your guild is making you compete, that's a problem with your guild. It's not like THEIR dps is harming YOU in any way, in fact I would wager you benefit from it.

Cuz most raider do for the challenge, To prove they can do it. Now if 1 class can always do betther then them based on his class choiuce rather then personal skill/dedication. The challenge is somewhat screwed.

But sure if you goal is just to kill thgat boss to get the gears, then I guess you could care less and maybe even just be a FotM so you can get loots faster and easier.