Just a couple of questions.

[Orantine]

Hi guys

Maybe this questions sounds stupid but I'm not sure about this. I don't know when I need to refresh my DoTs. (Of course balance druid).

I mean, I know the basic part, keep dots uptime, refresh the eclipsed dot, etc.

But for example.

I need to refresh dots on metagem procs?
should I to refresh dots when I enter on eclipse or when I'm leaving the eclipse?
In specifics fights like fallen protectors I need to keep both dots or just the eclipsed dot?
I need to refresh dots on procs of trinkets for extra damage or just on haste procs?

Btw sorry for my english and for waste your time.

If you can't reply me an elaborate answer, I'll be happy with yes or no to my questions.

Thanks for your time, and for read this.

[Juvencus]

Moonkin dots are not like other classes. We do not refresh by acting upon the procs but more like they are prerequisites as to when to refresh.

For example:
You do not refresh dots because meta gem proced but you make sure when you are going to refresh that the meta gem is preferably active.
You do not refresh dots because you hit a new eclipse but you make sure when it's time to refresh you are in an eclipse.
Haste procs are more important than intel procs but that does not make intel procs useless, just slightly lesser. Unless any proc is going to expire before it's the proper time to refresh then you act accordingly and decide on the spot if refreshing is necessary or not.

Not sure if I'm expressing myself correctly here...

Also make sure you are not wasting proc time with excessive refreshing as our fillers/nukes are really strong and benefit greatly from haste/intel procs as well.

[Deleted]

Moonkin dots are not like other classes. We do not refresh by acting upon the procs but more like they are prerequisites as to when to refresh.

For example:
You do not refresh dots because meta gem proced but you make sure when you are going to refresh that the meta gem is preferably active.
You do not refresh dots because you hit a new eclipse but you make sure when it's time to refresh you are in an eclipse.
Haste procs are more important than intel procs but that does not make intel procs useless, just slightly lesser. Unless any proc is going to expire before it's the proper time to refresh then you act accordingly and decide on the spot if refreshing is necessary or not.

Not sure if I'm expressing myself correctly here...

Also make sure you are not wasting proc time with excessive refreshing as our fillers/nukes are really strong and benefit greatly from haste/intel procs as well.

http://www.twitch.tv/fountainx/c/3785040

This video did alot for me to explain how to do it. But Juvencus sums it up really nicely aswell.

[Dreyen]

I've heard the "haste is better than int" proc a lot, but i always thought it was false... I know theres a base damage, but in siege, trinket procs are equivalent to 50% of your spellpower, which is nearly a 50% damage increase... before removing base damage from moonfire ofc. +50% dmg sounds better than +30% haste personally, especially since it's some crit as well. I understand that haste might be more starsurge procs thou.

[timmytompadderham]

I've heard the "haste is better than int" proc a lot, but i always thought it was false... I know theres a base damage, but in siege, trinket procs are equivalent to 50% of your spellpower, which is nearly a 50% damage increase... before removing base damage from moonfire ofc. +50% dmg sounds better than +30% haste personally, especially since it's some crit as well. I understand that haste might be more starsurge procs thou.

And your dots aren't a big enough portion of your damage to justify clipping very early with that int proc. It's a bigger gain to use nukes during that time and get a higher NG uptime and more nukes out overall. Snapshotting the meta gem and NG makes the dot tick longer and faster, meaning less globals spent refreshing and more procs.

You aren't clipping too early for that meta proc either, it's just more important.

The video linked above is the best explanation or example of single-target dotting behavior I've seen today. Most top-tier players do it similar to that, just haven't made a video explaining it until that. It's too bad the community doesn't have more videos like that for beginning players.

Edit: just read juv's post that's probably the best simple explanation you can give someone is try to get the DoTs refreshed as late as possible, preferably with the meta gem. +1
Another thing is the meta gem does more for your CDs too, and you don't have to wait for the ICD trinket if you can get another 3minute out, but you should at least get the meta, especially for multidotting.

[Dreyen]

Wasn't saying i was refrehsing when int procs happened, just that int procs werent that bad, i understand haste is better, but metagem is 30% haste vs a 50% damage buff from int procs, its not that far off id say.

That said, i definitely learned something in this thread today.. felt like everyone kept their secrets to themselves and would never explain how to do properly, at least its pretty close to what i did but with some differences.

[Juvencus]

Wasn't saying i was refrehsing when int procs happened, just that int procs werent that bad, i understand haste is better, but metagem is 30% haste vs a 50% damage buff from int procs, its not that far off id say.

That said, i definitely learned something in this thread today.. felt like everyone kept their secrets to themselves and would never explain how to do properly, at least its pretty close to what i did but with some differences.

I'm not sure it's because people have super secret methods of doing stuff like DoTs and SSprocs. I think it's because Moonkin gameplay is so intricate at the high level that no one wants to bother explaining every single thought process that happens in our brains for every single action in a fast paced fight.

It's like learning how to ride a bicycle. It involves balance, foot coordination, hand-eye coordination, distance and speed processing. But unless you get yourself on the bike itself and get your ass bruised in the process you will never learn and it's something you can't learn just by reading instructions.

It's all about experience and I know it's frustrating for new people and people who try to improve themselves (and ourselves ofc) but the best you can do is learn the basics, experiment and of course share with the community.

[Dreyen]

It's just the sharing that felt lacking... it's definitely explainable, though hard to put in words, but you can read this nowhere in any existing guide. I personally just tracked my trinkets, went with what i knew, and applied my own logic.

Honestly though, i find it pretty funny that after all those boomkin mechanics, blizzard still thinks that boomkin is easy to master.

[Deleted]

Wow, that video and juvencus' posts are really helpful. Trying to learn balance atm, so I'm not only ever playing resto.

Another question i feel wasn't really answered, what do we do about multidotting on say, protectors? Do we apply full dots to one extra target for extra starsurge procs? Only the eclipsed dot or is this outdated?

[Orantine]

Wow, that video and juvencus' posts are really helpful. Trying to learn balance atm, so I'm not only ever playing resto.

Another question i feel wasn't really answered, what do we do about multidotting on say, protectors? Do we apply full dots to one extra target for extra starsurge procs? Only the eclipsed dot or is this outdated?

+1 I'm indebted to all of you!

I was reading and looking for more information about multidotting. I'm not 100% sure about this but I've tried to keep both DoTs in Sun, He and Rook and I've get awesome results, however, I've seen some videos where druids just using the eclipsed DoT and they get nice numbers too. So I think that many factors influence to take the decision including the length of fight, raid comp, strategy, etc.

I think that next week I'll try to keep just the eclipsed DoT and cast more wrath and starfire, just for testing :3

[timmytompadderham]

+1 I'm indebted to all of you!

I was reading and looking for more information about multidotting. I'm not 100% sure about this but I've tried to keep both DoTs in Sun, He and Rook and I've get awesome results, however, I've seen some videos where druids just using the eclipsed DoT and they get nice numbers too. So I think that many factors influence to take the decision including the length of fight, raid comp, strategy, etc.

I think that next week I'll try to keep just the eclipsed DoT and cast more wrath and starfire, just for testing :3

For multitarget you want to keep up the eclipse dot on everything and at the very least one uneclipsed dot. I maintain all 3, but one uneclipsed DoT is mandatory at least, as sunfire DR's the proc rate of shooting stars with other sunfires, but does not share the DR rate with moonfire. So at the very least you need one uneclipse dot out for SS procs.

A basic priority system for multidotting for balance druid is Starfall > Eclipse DoT > Shooting Stars procs > uneclipsed DoT, where you use eclipse dot everything and use SS procs as they come and if there's a gap in SS procs you uneclipse dot everything until you get more procs or if you've doubled dotted everything or nature's grace is falling off, you wrath or starfire into a new eclipse asap.

[xtramuscle]

For multitarget you want to keep up the eclipse dot on everything and at the very least one uneclipsed dot. I maintain all 3, but one uneclipsed DoT is mandatory at least, as sunfire DR's the proc rate of shooting stars with other sunfires, but does not share the DR rate with moonfire. So at the very least you need one uneclipse dot out for SS procs.

A basic priority system for multidotting for balance druid is Starfall > Eclipse DoT > Shooting Stars procs > uneclipsed DoT, where you use eclipse dot everything and use SS procs as they come and if there's a gap in SS procs you uneclipse dot everything until you get more procs or if you've doubled dotted everything or nature's grace is falling off, you wrath or starfire into a new eclipse asap.

Yup this is pretty much right; I don't always eclipsed dot everything, some times keeping your NG up can be a bigger dps increase, along with more starfalls. But in my gear it doesn't really matter if I'm honest. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...93&e=842#Vexxe protectors log from couple of weeks ago; with 80% of so NG uptime. On single target I've had as high as 96% or so @ Iron juggy.