Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
13
14
... LastLast
  1. #221
    I disagree about TP working like trap launcher, in certain cases you want some totems (e.g. Spirit Link/Capacitor) to make a tick or two before projecting them to another place. If it stays a talent removing/reducing the cooldown would be nice though.
    Last edited by Eliot123; 2014-06-06 at 04:28 PM.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    I think the big issue with the way Totemic Projection works is you drop the totem and then you move it. It should work like trap launcher
    I don't think they need trap launcher treatment because it is rather rare that i need to teleport my totem right away to another position after i dropped it.

    I mean since TP is not on the GCD how much time do you actually lose? I do not think there are many totems around that need to be timed that exactly to be effective or fulfill their purpose.

  3. #223
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot123 View Post
    I disagree about TP working like trap launcher, in certain cases you want some totems (e.g. Spirit Link/Capacitor) to make a tick or two before projecting them to another place. If it stays a talent removing/reducing the cooldown would be nice though.
    Fair enough. Didn't really occur to me the fact the current way it works effectively allows the totem to work in two different places, which is actually a nice benefit. You've changed my mind, I like the way it works because of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I don't think they need trap launcher treatment because it is rather rare that i need to teleport my totem right away to another position after i dropped it.

    I mean since TP is not on the GCD how much time do you actually lose? I do not think there are many totems around that need to be timed that exactly to be effective or fulfill their purpose.
    It isn't that long, but you will always lose the first tick, however the point before reminded me that actually that is sometimes a benefit not always a loss. Maybe after they make it a baseline ability (Blizz plz) they could add a Major Glyph to make it work like Trap Launcher, that would be cool (so situations where you need to use SlT on the melee group but fairly useless on spread out Ranged players wouldn't lose the extra tick for example, or if you only want to move 1 totem - Earthbind say - but not every other one you have placed).
    Last edited by mmoc63fa3da953; 2014-06-06 at 04:40 PM.

  4. #224
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,258
    Just tweeted Celestalon asking why Elementals are still totem-bound... I mean, I understand the 1-minute restrictions between themselves, but keeping them as totems baffles me and interferes with the current totem mechanics, it's quite annoying. By this point, you'd think they'd be proper cooldowns. Especially with the introduction of the Storm Elemental... it'll impede on a lot of our totemic mechanics, in addition to it being a talent so they're going to have to do something to make it compete.

  5. #225
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    Just tweeted Celestalon asking why Elementals are still totem-bound... I mean, I understand the 1-minute restrictions between themselves, but keeping them as totems baffles me and interferes with the current totem mechanics, it's quite annoying. By this point, you'd think they'd be proper cooldowns. Especially with the introduction of the Storm Elemental... it'll impede on a lot of our totemic mechanics, in addition to it being a talent so they're going to have to do something to make it compete.
    From a lore perspective, its the totems that bind them too us and make them fight for us (depending on the affiliation of the Shaman it is either enforced slavery Warlock style, or it is more of an offering that the Elementals answer willingly). From a game play standpoint I can see them removing totems from Elementals though, especially as they already follow us around anyway.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Razhiel View Post
    I would wait until Beta comes out before making statements like that. We still haven't seen all of the changes.
    Lol it's only alpha - no changes. Lol it's only beta - no changes. Lol game just released wait for patch - no changes. Patch arrives - no changes. See where this thinking gets you?

  7. #227
    Deleted
    Only 2 things I'd like to be reintroduced for shaman.

    Totems that actually mean something, they're an iconic part of the class, but at the minute, they feel more like a burden than a "oooh these totems are really cool" kinda thing.

    The option to play 2h, I know, I know, so many people gonna say "not possible due to blah blah blah blah blah" but I enjoyed playing 2h enhancement in vanilla, it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to have something similar to how frost plays, main limitation is loot now sadly.

  8. #228
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    From a lore perspective, its the totems that bind them too us and make them fight for us (depending on the affiliation of the Shaman it is either enforced slavery Warlock style, or it is more of an offering that the Elementals answer willingly). From a game play standpoint I can see them removing totems from Elementals though, especially as they already follow us around anyway.
    Yeah, I understand the lore, but if that were really an excuse they used to justify them not being cooldowns by themselves, then I'd have to go on a rampage and list every ability that impacts lore just as much but was changed to fit game-play needs. As they keep saying themselves, game-play is their main focus and I don't know any reason as to why they wouldn't be allowed to be single cooldowns as they're receiving some big reductions in Warlords, and the utility we'd get from Primal Elementalist would be justified because we're taking talents, in addition to Storm Elemental, which is also a talent. I also don't enjoy the fact that Primal Elementalist and Storm Elemental are both talents that double-dip with each other...

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    Totems are the most counterable thing - I disagree. Hunter traps have a bigger flaw in that they actually require your enemy to activate them. If the Hunter misplays/the target outplays they can literally take 1 step to the left and counter the entire ability. A well played hunter will not allow this to happen, either with well placed abilities or with the use of external CC to ensure that the trap gets its full effectiveness. That is almost the exact same situation a totem has. Sure, totems like Earthbind and SlT do not really have this option because you have to drop them in your enemies face, but drop them in the right place and you can still protect them. Drop Earthbind behind a wall or drop it so that it is right at the end of the Warrior baring down on you and force him to take several steps away from you to kill it (in which case it has served it's job anyway).
    Come WoD Totems will be the most "counterable" things, since traps will literally activate instantaneously. Hunters aoe slow can be placed with x radius baseline while Shaman can either risk going up to their opponent to drop their totem or talent for a lackluster pseudo-trap launcher that works based on elevation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubathingy View Post
    But anyway it's OK to be jelly of the tallest midget.

  10. #230
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    Yeah, I understand the lore, but if that were really an excuse they used to justify them not being cooldowns by themselves, then I'd have to go on a rampage and list every ability that impacts lore just as much but was changed to fit game-play needs. As they keep saying themselves, game-play is their main focus and I don't know any reason as to why they wouldn't be allowed to be single cooldowns as they're receiving some big reductions in Warlords, and the utility we'd get from Primal Elementalist would be justified because we're taking talents, in addition to Storm Elemental, which is also a talent. I also don't enjoy the fact that Primal Elementalist and Storm Elemental are both talents that double-dip with each other...
    I actually think the fact the talents work together is cool. As long as SET isn't useless without PE or visa-versa I think its cool. That could be easier said than done though, because for each talent to be balanced within their respective tiers they have to be balanced both with and without the other one. That definitely a wait and see for me. However, they have said before they don't mind if some totems make others less effective/even completely useless, so maybe they are okay with the opposite as well.

    That is the issue with throughput talent tiers though I suppose, its very difficult to make them unique enough that they all are useful in their own niche situations. I can't wait to see how SET is, I really hope its actually a niche spell and not just something we always take, because I really enjoy the intention of the talent tiers, being able to change your talents and adapt to the situation.
    Last edited by mmoc63fa3da953; 2014-06-06 at 05:45 PM.

  11. #231
    Somewhat off-topic but the whole ''iconic'' thing is starting to go through the window in WoW slowly. Pets are iconic for hunters/warlocks yet both (will) have talents to remove the pet.

  12. #232
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    I actually think the fact the talents work together is cool. As long as SET isn't useless without PE or visa-versa I think its cool. That could be easier said than done though, because for each talent to be balanced within their respective tiers they have to be balanced both with and without the other one. That definitely a wait and see for me. However, they have said before they don't mind if some totems make others less effective/even completely useless, so maybe they are okay with the opposite as well.

    That is the issue with throughput talent tiers though I suppose, its very difficult to make them unique enough that they all are useful in their own niche situations. I can't wait to see how SET is, I really hope its actually a niche spell and not just something we always take, because I really enjoy the intention of the talent tiers, being able to change your talents and adapt to the situation.
    And that's usually the problem with Shaman design. They try to balance one ability for all three completely different specs which is completely unreasonable with great examples such as Elemental Blast and Conductivity. The reason we see it working for Druid's, Priests or Paladins is because each spec almost gets an entirely different ability except for the few like the healing tiers, and mobility tiers.

  13. #233
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot123 View Post
    Somewhat off-topic but the whole ''iconic'' thing is starting to go through the window in WoW slowly. Pets are iconic for hunters/warlocks yet both (will) have talents to remove the pet.
    I haven't actually seem the change for Hunters to remove their pets? Could you link me to that, sounds very interesting and I'd like to know how it works with BM. I just looked up their WoD talent tree and I didn't see anything about that.

    Edit: Leaving that there because I'm an idiot. I just looked it up and the talent changes when not BM (I'm really not a fan of these talents that change based on what spec you are, but whatever). Its Marksmen and Survival only. When you have no pet active you do 30% more damage and provide one of the pet buffs passively. Interesting. However, I think this is a much smaller change for Hunters than it would be to remove Totems for Shaman, as so many of our abilities are tied to totems and would need large reworks to fix, especially as they still do have pets and still do have the Beast Master spec based around pets, it doesn't get this ability.
    Last edited by mmoc63fa3da953; 2014-06-06 at 06:06 PM.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    It isn't that long, but you will always lose the first tick, however the point before reminded me that actually that is sometimes a benefit not always a loss. Maybe after they make it a baseline ability (Blizz plz) they could add a Major Glyph to make it work like Trap Launcher, that would be cool (so situations where you need to use SlT on the melee group but fairly useless on spread out Ranged players wouldn't lose the extra tick for example, or if you only want to move 1 totem - Earthbind say - but not every other one you have placed).
    I could live with a major glyph on this part but changing just Tp just for SlT being slighty more better for such a situational moment would not be wise, i mean you always had to toggle this on / off for almost any other totem.

  15. #235
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    I haven't actually seem the change for Hunters to remove their pets? Could you link me to that, sounds very interesting and I'd like to know how it works with BM. I just looked up their WoD talent tree and I didn't see anything about that.

    Edit: Leaving that there because I'm an idiot. I just looked it up and the talent changes when not BM (I'm really not a fan of these talents that change based on what spec you are, but whatever). Its Marksmen and Survival only. When you have no pet active you do 30% more damage and provide one of the pet buffs passively. Interesting. However, I think this is a much smaller change for Hunters than it would be to remove Totems for Shaman, as so many of our abilities are tied to totems and would need large reworks to fix, especially as they still do have pets and still do have the Beast Master spec based around pets, it doesn't get this ability.
    I'm lurking but to add to your post, that specific talent destroys alot of spells/other talents for non-BM hunters.

    Spirit Bond, Master's Call, Blink Strikes.... etc. There is a big hunter thread about it in their forums.

  16. #236
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I could live with a major glyph on this part but changing just Tp just for SlT being slighty more better for such a situational moment would not be wise, i mean you always had to toggle this on / off for almost any other totem.
    No thanks, we already rely on Totemic Projection and Capacitor Totem's glyph for that totem to be properly utilized, I don't want another mandatory glyph just for Totemic Projection to become what it should be in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurokk View Post
    I'm lurking but to add to your post, that specific talent destroys alot of spells/other talents for non-BM hunters.

    Spirit Bond, Master's Call, Blink Strikes.... etc. There is a big hunter thread about it in their forums.
    They could always alter it? Such as how whenever you use Fire and Brimstone, the abilities that utilize it end up changing. Maybe when you use that talent, Spirit Bond, Master's Call, Blink Strikes, etc. could change along with it?

  17. #237
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    They could always alter it? Such as how whenever you use Fire and Brimstone, the abilities that utilize it end up changing. Maybe when you use that talent, Spirit Bond, Master's Call, Blink Strikes, etc. could change along with it?
    So your suggesting changing several base skills and many other talents just because of one specific talent that makes a pet class give up their pet, but still maintain their buffs? F&B isn't even half that.

    That would also most likely make the talent mandatory because its a flat % damage buff in any situation where pet has less than 100% uptime.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    No thanks, we already rely on Totemic Projection and Capacitor Totem's glyph for that totem to be properly utilized, I don't want another mandatory glyph just for Totemic Projection to become what it should be in the first place.
    You call a Glyph "mandatory" for a single spec which is actually only useful during rather rare situation where you want to drop SlT in a place where you are not currently?

  19. #239
    Pit Lord Blithe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You call a Glyph "mandatory" for a single spec which is actually only useful during rather rare situation where you want to drop SlT in a place where you are not currently?
    If Totemic Projection actually worked like Trap Launcher, I wouldn't second guess you, but it doesn't so I wouldn't want a Glyph that turns it into that, otherwise it's just another shitty band-aid where we require both a talent and a glyph to make something useful i.e Capacitor Totem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurokk View Post
    So your suggesting changing several base skills and many other talents just because of one specific talent that makes a pet class give up their pet, but still maintain their buffs? F&B isn't even half that.

    That would also most likely make the talent mandatory because its a flat % damage buff in any situation where pet has less than 100% uptime.
    Warlocks, especially Demonology, don't have "pet-related" attacks, at least not on the scale of Beast Mastery, and that's why it doesn't require that. Beast Mastery has too many, and the talent makes sense for the class so I don't see why Blizzard wouldn't add this. You don't get to fight with a pet, so you lose its utility and its buffs, but you have increased damage, albeit balanced around that fact.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    If Totemic Projection actually worked like Trap Launcher, I wouldn't second guess you, but it doesn't so I wouldn't want a Glyph that turns it into that, otherwise it's just another shitty band-aid where we require both a talent and a glyph to make something useful i.e Capacitor Totem.
    Then enlighten me please how many totems seriously gain something from a trap launcher mechanic that makes it so mandatory.

    Because, as i said, since Tp is not on the GCD, you can drop a totem just fine and then teleport it, unless you you need it instantly right away, which is in my view rather rarely, hence i wouldn't consider a glyph like this mandatory.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2014-06-06 at 09:56 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •