Mop wasn't a very good expansion...

[Rinex]

My only issue with this expansion is the INSANE ammounts of item level increases from each raid difficulty. Molten Core was ilvl 66, Sunwell was 154 (164 from KJ). Giving us a total of 98 ilvl from the earliest raid in vanilla to the last raid in TBC.

Early WotLK to End WotLK 200(Naxx 10-man) - 271 (Ruby Sanctum) 71 ilevels Total
Early Cata to end Cata 359 (BoT) - 416 (DS) 57 ilevels Total
Early MoP to end MoP 476 (LFR MSV) - 588 (SoO full hc WF 2x upgrade) 112 ilevels total

SoO alone has 528 from LFR to 588 to fully upgraded heroic WF. 60 ilvls from ONE raid!

And please for the love of god. Remove the god damn Warforged thing you got going. It doesn't make the raid more exciting to do. It's a stupid thing that inflates stats and item levels even more than this game should have. I can deal with item upgrades so i have something to spend my valor on but Warforged is just random and annoying.


Challenge modes and Proving grounds brings a great philosophy. The items matter, item levels doesn't. (to some extent)

[CalamityHeart]

Maybe I just don't look too deeply into things, but I really liked MoP. It held my interest a lot more than Cata, I found the lore interesting, the gameplay a bit more involving, outside of dungeons.

My only glaring dislike about MoP was how lazily monks were just thrown in, lorewise. "The X race learned Y from their Z friends." just seems like a very low bar for me, when that's the whole story across the board for all monk races besides Pandaren. It's boring and depthless. And I worry that monks will go the way of the Death Knight and become totally forgotten and irrelevant an expansion later. Maybe if they expand monk lore a little to encompass more races other than Pandaren (an allegiance of Dwarven Brewmasters, sect of Draenei monks and mistweavers that act as a spiritual guide to wisdom for the people of the Alliance, etc) and introduce some notable monk characters that aren't Pandaren, I'll feel better, but as of now, monks are my least favorite class, lorewise. Lower than Goblin Shaman, which is saying something.

[Arkuri]

Still better than... <Whispers.> the Cataclysm...

For Optional content at end-game, I felt it was better than Wraths. But in-depth content, progressive content, or even content that was -required- to do other things that felt more like a hidden 'Attunement', in a way, I enjoyed Wrath more in that aspect.

Personally, I'd rather have content that I need to do in order to progress to do something else that I actually want to do Over:

Here, you CAN do this! But it really doesn't give you anything at all, maybe a few hundred gold? You have a 0.1% chance to get a world-drop Epic though that is worth more to Disenchant than it is to Sell it!

[Puuhis]

End game of MoP was probably the best WoW has ever seen. There were also an enormous amount of QoL changes and I really enjoyed Isle of thunder & timeless isle. Pandas also weren't a problem and I really like the Chinese theme.

[Gimlix]

MoP was amazing in terms of gameplay and content they gave us, but the theme is still the thing i dislike.
The things they gave us at MoP but then WoD theme = best expansion for me.

[Bigbazz]

How many of these threads do you need to make, why is it always you that makes these threads? Do you need to tell people you don't like it on a weekly basis? Surely you have something better to do, lost count how many "Jaylock" made threads I see like this.

[madmanx]

Here is how it works.

What ever xpac that was 2 xpacks ago or a similar time frame will be reevaluated while wearing rose colored glasses. Even the much maligned Wotlk was raised to the skies eventually. The much hated BC that introduced welfare epics into the game is now far away in time to be legendary.

When enough time has passed an xpac reaches legend status. Beta wow for example was "amazing" for some odd reason (it was awful and barely playable). Vanilla was incredible (it was a grindy snore fest). BC was a raiders dream (The raiding was very much like raiding is today but slightly worse).

Cata is up next....just wait and see.

I can't wait to pop my head in the first "I wish WoD was more like Cata" thread and say HA!

[Felarion]

In my opinion MoP was not bad. I think they bring alot of cool new thing to the game. Scenarios,pet battles,brawlers etc. Raids were also nice. I dont ppv much so i dont know very much about it. My only problem with that expac were pandas and asian theme.

[MetroStratics]

[*]The illusion of a ton of things to do, when in reality it was still a "sit in town and que up expansion"[/LIST]

If they did some things differently, like not focus an entire expansion on pandas, and actually created legitimate reasons for the heroes of Azeroth to go into the raids and defeat the enemies, my interest would have been captured much more than it was.

I know you are just making threads like this to elicit responses, but its important for everyone else here who is actually serious about this argument to realize two key points about this.

They are quoted above from the original post.
Anyone who says these things hasn't actually played the expansion.

There were a ton of things to do, and queuing for them was simply not possible.
Features like Challenge Modes, Proving Grounds, Flex Raiding, Achievement hunting, Pet Battles, Timeless Isle, brawlers guild and connected realms were MASSIVE improvements and additions I expect to see get even better in WOD. None of them can be done simply standing in town AFK and the only queuing you do is at the most a means of entering, not a means of forming the group or any indication of simplicity.

The second statement is even more damning.
I am surprised how many people frequent this website but don't actually pay attention to the news it publishes.
This information was published with the onset of MoP launch, as well as again at 5.2 and 5.4.
I'll reiterate the gist of the expansion, as to help anyone who still believes this.

As stated in the starting cutscene, the Horde and Alliance travel to Pandaria to find and compete for more resources. This is a natural reason and makes a lot of sense, coming of the Cataclysm which destroyed a lot of what each faction held.
Once there, the first patch is meant to help us assimilate. It operates as if we arrive before those in command, and because of this, we explore and learn all about the Pandaren. It should be noted that they are not simply "pandas," just as murlocs are not "Fish." It is an oversimplification, and usually a tell-tale sign that the person has a bias that is unfounded in reason.
I personally absolutely loved the asian theme, and 5.0 was my favorite patch for it. They did such a great job conveying the mysticism the land presented, but recognize some people are not predisposed to this type of fantasy. I feel it was too beautiful to not fall in love with, but will relent and agree its more personal preference.

In 5.1 we learn that our leaders finally make Landfall, and with this the war begins. Both scramble for their own interests and make changes to the landscape as we go.

In 5.2 we get a bit of a diversion as Garrosh continues is work, and sends some members to examine the Isle of the Thunder King. This happens because Garrosh learns about the Sarrok's creation and realizes that Lei Shen, the mastermind behind it, has access to extreme power.
It is as this point that Garrosh (the main character of the storyline...) decides he will have power by whatever means necessary. In the 5.1 story, he experiments with Sha Energy, but it doesn't seem to yield the results he is looking for. It can be considered a plot diversion for the sake of elongation, but regardless, its a narrative so what can we expect?
With the first look at Sha energy not yielding results, he then turns to Lei Shen's power and hopes to control it as a back up plan. We go to support the campaign there, but quickly realize its out of control and must stop him before he returns to true power. Likely some time between now and then, Garrosh finds what he is looking for, and we Horde and Alliance agree to withdraw. This happens via cutscene.

In 5.3, we realize Garrosh has uncovered the Heart of Ysaarj (sp) and is preparing for war with it as his ultimate weapon. We reconvene with major characters, take over outlying lands, and begin our attack.

In 5.4, the assault begins. We realize, with the Heart, he has entered the forbidden waters underneath the lake in Vale and has confronted his own pride and came out successful! Taranzhu tells us, that if he is strong enough to over come the Sha, he must have the power to control them, and fears for the worst. This all happens as voice acted scenes in between bosses.
Knowing we must stop him, we travel to Orgrimmar's gates and begin the attack.
Eventually, we stop him, and reflect. We know that everything in Pandaria was sacred, and while it may have been strange for a few, it was all layed out as a very intricate story where we accidentally help a madman become even more corrupt.

None of this is in books, wikis, or extrapolated upon. It all happens in the game, and was described in outline via Corey Stockton when Jesse Cox interviewed him the week before MoP came out, as well as on many blue posts through out the expansion.

Hopefully now you realize that saying there was no point just proves you didn't pay attention to anything that has happened, whether in game, or on this website.
You may not have liked the point, but it was certainly was there, and was very well developed.

[Vermicious]

In your opinion, why was Mop a big let down of an expansion?
What made this the worst expansion yet for you, and what are you looking forward to in WoD?

Hmm nice leading question. I'm betting most will not agree with your opinion.

In MY opinion, it wasn't a let down, it was as good as any of the previous expansions, if not better.
It WASN'T the worst expansion, not by a long shot. WoD has much to look forward to.

[Deleted]

Wait...you're completely dismissing a whole expansion just because of small side-game? That's pretty immature.

Not exactly, it was just something I disagreed with the most. The other reasons were what the OP listed.

It isn't a "small side game" though. It's meant to attract completely different audience while those who prefer it the way it us get less and less. They should have made it into a separate game instead like Hearthstone and the WoW card game.

Of course it might be because I really hate Asian style games and cartoons though but either way it doesnt fit. Think about it.. mighty heroes collect small animals and make them fight each other and the animals have special powers for some reason? Absurd.. If they wanted to add animal fighting so bad, why didnt they just add illegal cock(atrice) fighting clubs or secret places where your pet has to kill a bunch or rats. Not PG-13 enough? Well don't add it at all then.

[Itisamuh]

MoP was vastly superior to Cataclysm in about every other aspect except no raid tier came close to T11 in quality.

Gilneas alone was better than all of Pandaria.

[mvaliz]

Not exactly, it was just something I disagreed with the most. The other reasons were what the OP listed.

It isn't a "small side game" though. It's meant to attract completely different audience while those who prefer it the way it us get less and less. They should have made it into a separate game instead like Hearthstone and the WoW card game.

You have clearly never played an MMORPG other than WoW, have you?

An MMORPG is meant to be an interactive world of VARYING palystyles that happen to come together to form a community - with their differences in playstyles complementing one another. Yes, Pet battles complement raiding - Raiders get pets to drop and sell them for kookoo gold prices to those who do not raid. This is also excluding those raiders who DO like pet battles and keep them.

To use your quote: "While those who prefer it the way it is" (I assume you meant "is") "Gets less and less" - no, that is YOUR style of gameplay. How do you think the players who enjoy sandbox/casual play liked it when YOUR game got the primary focus for years!? You only THINK that raiding and end-game progression is THE ONLY ASPECT to the game because it's what YOU like and what YOU focused on.

- - - Updated - - -

In my sole solitary opinion, Gilneas alone was better than all of Pandaria. Though I won't even attempt at giving a logical comparison as to why because I know I can barely begin to back up what I claimed.

Fixed that for you

[Bamzy]

Not counting design decisions that I know they won't ever change, so I won't bother - for me it was also the theme & atmosphere. It really wasn't a good idea. While I dislike even the WoD theme, it's nowhere near as bad.

Used to be a huge supporter of the new talent system, but I am not a fan of it any longer, at least for Warriors. If Blizzard insists on not having cookie cutter specs, they will have to remove the talents altogether. There are still cookie cutter builds, but now on an encounter by encounter basis, it's just a hassle... There are only a couple of classes where more than 1 tier is an actual choice.

Really dislike scenarios for max level. One expansion too late Blizz, should have been implemented for the new 1-60 content in Cata (sparingly of course...).

I haven't PVP'd seriously since early Cata, but my god did they break PVP in MoP... Whoever that new guy in charge is, needs his ass kicked out ASAP

They finally crossed the line with the cash shop. This makes me personally very upset, and I have already been slowly losing respect for Blizzard as a company since 2010.

World of Warcraft is no longer a labour of love, but a way to squeeze out every last drop of revenue from the people who likely won't be playing it much longer.

There was definitely some good stuff about MoP though:

Raiding itself was excellent (purely mechanics wise, not the lore).
PVE Balance is the closest one we've had so far, at least as far as the DPS goes.
Challenge Modes are the best thing they've introduced since BC. Hopefully they will be a valid gearing choice pre-raid for the first week next expansion.
Pet Battles aren't nearly as retarded as I thought they would be - still kind of dumb though, but it can be fun at times
Flex is on it's way to push LFR out in the expansion after WoD.
We saw them kind of start realizing that so much queueing from the UI destroyed the immersion, but they are having a tough time moving away from that or something?

[Deleted]

Gilneas alone was better than all of Pandaria.

This although Cata wasn't all that good. At launch it was decent but felt a bit dull and grindy. I mean I could put effort into raiding and doing instances but not when I know Im gonna get the gear for free anyway if i just wait a few months. I think Wrath before the end of the Ulduar patch was about as close as you can get to the "golden age" of WoW.

[Baneberry]

I agree that the Ilv system is annoying as hell.
Meh.

Dont forget before visible ilvl (and there was always ilvl, just not exposed to the players) there was GearScore... and if you wanted to pug you had to use it

[Arkuri]

Dont forget before visible ilvl (and there was always ilvl, just not exposed to the players) there was GearScore... and if you wanted to pug you had to use it

I'm glad the GearScore addon is no longer around. That thing was so stupid, and way to abused and integrated into everything that really only hurt more players than it tried to help.

[CheeseSandwich]

I'm glad the GearScore addon is no longer around. That thing was so stupid, and way to abused and integrated into everything that really only hurt more players than it tried to help.

Totally agree. Ilvl does it now so much more efficiently.

[Deleted]

You have clearly never played an MMORPG other than WoW, have you?

An MMORPG is meant to be an interactive world of VARYING palystyles that happen to come together to form a community - with their differences in playstyles complementing one another. Yes, Pet battles complement raiding - Raiders get pets to drop and sell them for kookoo gold prices to those who do not raid. This is also excluding those raiders who DO like pet battles and keep them.

To use your quote: "While those who prefer it the way it is" (I assume you meant "is") "Gets less and less" - no, that is YOUR style of gameplay. How do you think the players who enjoy sandbox/casual play liked it when YOUR game got the primary focus for years!? You only THINK that raiding and end-game progression is THE ONLY ASPECT to the game because it's what YOU like and what YOU focused on.

Playing Runescape as Im writing this actually.. that game is older than WoW and they don't do that casual stuff or cater to that community. So you dont have pet battles there, and the best gear cost billions.. which is like a year of grinding for an average player (and no they don't sell gold). Im not bringing this up thinking it's a perfect MMO, just that you don't have to resort in that kind of tactics if you want to have a lot of players and want to be popular.

The problem is that WoW changed their target audience, it used to be perfect, now its "terribul" (*whine*). I don't go to Final Fantasy forums or whatever those popular Asian MMOs are called and complain about wings and pet battles there.

[Queen of Hamsters]

People really need to put "In my opinion" behind subjective statements like "it sucked" or "this was better", that teaches people to think about a very simple fact...that what THEY feel about something doesn't equal undeniable fact.

To ME, MoP has been the best expansion so far. Amazing raids, great environments, fast patch releases with each bringing lots of new stuff to do. I didn't even mind the dailies since it felt like progression and I took interest in the stories! I loved how we went from mainland pandaria to Isle of Thunder to The Barrens and then back to Pandaria with another island...sure, I don't enjoy TI that much, but it HAS given me progression and fun moments.

Has the final tier been out "too long"? Well yes and no. From a business standpoint I guess it has, but to ME it hasn't since I still have tons to do. At this time in Cataclysm I was struggling to find stuff to do that I hadn't already finished outside of raids.

The only thing that older expansions have over MoP to me is ICC. It was my first real raiding experience and although I have seen new and more complex, awesome mechanics since then, the story of Arthas and the fall of the Lich King and all that jazz will always be one of my favourite stories in the Warcraft universe.

If they can make WoD as good as MoP or better in terms of gameplay quality and story, it may trump MoP to me one day.