Elemental Shaman Guide: 5.4 Edition

[Deleted]

The issue comes in with that Stormrayder in that you are sacrificing damage for stacks. For every single stack that is wasted you are losing DPS. CL is much more RNG for this than LB is. You can jump from 1 stack too 7 in a single cast of CL, but by the time all the Mastery procs have finished you are already casting the next CL, which will not get you any bonus at all, leaving you with just a flat DPS loss vs casting LB. The benefit only comes in if you are actually able to utilize every single one of those bonus stacks.

[Stormrayder]

hehe yeah i was totally aware of this issue although the cast times seem to scale the cl dmg up a tiny bit too and that coupled with the fulmination might make up for it. simple example i just hit a mob for the sake of comparison, 1 cl cast on 1 target for 120k, 1 lb cast did 160k. lb being 1.4 sec cast and cl being 1sec means in the time it takes me to hit 10 lbs i can hit 14 cls. 10x160 =1600 while 120X14= 1680 these numbers are the widest apart i have gotten just to illustrate the point. not saying its a ground breaking difference but there is a difference none the less coupled with decent shock managment doesnt seem too bad.
ive read conversations like this plenty of times over the years just like the multi dot shamans discussions too are long debated, still though this cl convo reminds me of the msv dogs fight, one of the easier ways to rank on that fight was to cl the 2 dogs and earthshock while keeping ur normal rotation, to the point you would even take tulleric currents cuz u would go oom doing it, yet is still yielded higher dps.

[Deleted]

hehe yeah i was totally aware of this issue although the cast times seem to scale the cl dmg up a tiny bit too and that coupled with the fulmination might make up for it. simple example i just hit a mob for the sake of comparison, 1 cl cast on 1 target for 120k, 1 lb cast did 160k. lb being 1.4 sec cast and cl being 1sec means in the time it takes me to hit 10 lbs i can hit 14 cls. 10x160 =1600 while 120X14= 1680 these numbers are the widest apart i have gotten just to illustrate the point. not saying its a ground breaking difference but there is a difference none the less coupled with decent shock managment doesnt seem too bad.
ive read conversations like this plenty of times over the years just like the multi dot shamans discussions too are long debated, still though this cl convo reminds me of the msv dogs fight, one of the easier ways to rank on that fight was to cl the 2 dogs and earthshock while keeping ur normal rotation, to the point you would even take tulleric currents cuz u would go oom doing it, yet is still yielded higher dps.

You need to cleave to rank on Klaxxi too. However, none of the cleave damage means anything. If your guild is passed progression on Klaxxi then feel free to abuse CL on the fight, but for single target it might not be the best choice.

[Anzen]

Having recently picked up a ele shaman alt, this actually intrigues me a bit. My CL is at 1.07 cast, 42315 dmg (or 39546 dmg for 1 second). My Lightningbolt is at 1.43 sec, 73180 dmg (or 51174 dmg for 1 sec). So about 22-23% stronger.
Obviously, CL on 3 targets generate lightning shield charges at tripple the rate. So I take it from what you say, that tripple-rate generation is not worth the 23% damage difference in using CL over Lightning bolt?
(this is with the glyph, so I guess the actual difference would be about 20% without it).

There is more behind this than just this though (and I'll use your numbers for this since I'm too lazy to get my own!).

1. Meta Gem: The legendary meta gem has incredibly high up-time for Elemental (talking ~50%!). Lightning Bolt would gain far more benefit from this than Chain Lightning would. Whist CL would quickly be GCD capped, Lightning Bolt would go down to a ~1.1s cast time. This would make the DPS of CL 42,315 and the DPS of LB 66,527 - about a 37% damage difference. Of course because this is only the case 50% of the time, we can meet half way and assume it's a 30% DPS loss from what we know already.

2. Unleash Elements: The most superior single target talent in our level 90 tier is hands-down Unleash Elements. Sadly this spell is limited to only buffing Lava Burst and Lightning Bolt damage; by using Chain Lightning instead of Lightning Bolt, we lose the 30% damage buff from UE .

3. Mastery: Realistically, you'll only be cleaving two targets at any time (Ka'roz sprinting around the room most of the fight/bosses needing to be tanked apart) and as I have detailed below, this would mean we have 1/3rd less chance to proc our mastery than spamming Lightning Bolt; an obvious DPS loss.

4. Earth Shock: Along with many people, I have been lured into this false pretense that Earth Shock is stronger than it really is. The whole "building up stacks from your spells to deliver a powerful single blow" idea makes it seem like Earth Shock should hit really hard. In reality, you'll find it does a fraction more than Lightning Bolt.

There are many more reasons I'm sure (such as over-capping LS stacks and breaking parasite CC), these were just off the top of my head, although I think it's pretty clear already it's a bad idea.

Chain Lightning generates charges at 1/3 the rate per target that Lightning Bolt does.

I think you're confusing how our Mastery works with Fulmination. Mastery procs for Chain Lightning are calculated at (X/3)*Y; where X is our Mastery chance and Y is the targets chain Lightning will hit.

[chairmanmao]

Unleashed Fury is 30% Lightning Bolt damage.

[Anzen]

Unleashed Fury is 30% Lightning Bolt damage.

Thanks, edited the typo.

[Deleted]

I think you're confusing how our Mastery works with Fulmination. Mastery procs for Chain Lightning are calculated at (X/3)*Y; where X is our Mastery chance and Y is the targets chain Lightning will hit.

Yeah, I was mistaken. Every jump of Chain Lightning has a 60% chance to proc Rolling Thunder (and thus gain a stack), however my secondary point still stands. Unless you are able to utilise every single one of those extra stacks (which you wont be able too if you only cast CL and never LB) then you are going to end up doing less damage on the Primary Target than you would by just spamming LB, because once you are at max stacks, you are not gaining anything but losing both Mastery procs on that target and base damage between the two spells.

It might be worth weaving in a chain lighting into the rotation if ES was about to come back up and you had terrible luck with LB so had like 3 or less stacks, but if you are already at 5+ stacks, most of the stacks you get from a CL cast will go to waste. In any other situation, you would still be better off spamming LB, because that cleave damage doesn't mean anything.

[Deleted]

The shaman guides on MMO-champion are like the worst ones on the whole internet. When will we get moderators who actually play this class competevily, who can actually answer serious questions and write useful guides and also keeping them up to date. As its now, class forum mods are useless deco and/or too casual for the targeted audience.

[Anzen]

The shaman guides on MMO-champion are like the worst ones on the whole internet. When will we get moderators who actually play this class competevily, who can actually answer serious questions and write useful guides and also keeping them up to date. As its now, class forum mods are useless deco and/or too casual for the targeted audience.

I don't know, being able to talk through things with fellow Shaman players in this thread I think is pretty strong! #nominatemyselfforshamanmod.

Can't say I've ever read the guide though, will go have a look!

[Deleted]

I don't know, being able to talk through things with fellow Shaman players in this thread I think is pretty strong! #nominatemyselfforshamanmod.

Can't say I've ever read the guide though, will go have a look!

Just chosed to post in this thread, but I mean all specs guides here and also the quality of mod posts is below acceptable. Heroic/mythic raiding should be a requirement of being a class mod, everything else is useless and below an acceptable standard.

[Anzen]

Just chosed to post in this thread, but I mean all specs guides here and also the quality of mod posts is below acceptable. Heroic/mythic raiding should be a requirement of being a class mod, everything else is useless and below an acceptable standard.

After reading, they do seem pretty outdated. I think the gearing section said to gem pure intellect still.

Updates pleaseee

[Deleted]

Just chosed to post in this thread, but I mean all specs guides here and also the quality of mod posts is below acceptable. Heroic/mythic raiding should be a requirement of being a class mod, everything else is useless and below an acceptable standard.

I completely disagree. When I was a mod, I was doing server-first level raiding, yet that didn't benefit my ability to theorycraft really at all. Being good at theorycrafting and knowing how to play the class does not translate to also needing to commit so heavily to the game. Its useful for giving advice on encounters to have actually done them, but the guides posted in this forum, and most of the class forums, don't give a breakdown boss by boss of what to do as your class, they simply give a general guideline of the best practices.

After reading, they do seem pretty outdated. I think the gearing section said to gem pure intellect still.

Updates pleaseee

Gemming Intellect isn't actually 'wrong'. You actually need a fairly high ilevel (540+) before you consistently can say that Intellect is not the best option, and even then you need to Sim it to work out whether Haste or Mastery is better (though again, basic guidelines can be used to say Mastery is better if you have meta gem). The guide clearly mentions this, and the "Intellect > Hit/Spirit to 15% cap > Haste >= Mastery > Crit" part is actually technically correct, Intellect IS better than everything else, on a 1 to 1 basis, its just that you get twice as much of every other stat than you do of Intellect from gems, which again the guide clearly states.

[Deleted]

Does SimC currently undervaluate Heroic Kardris' toxic totem?
I just replaced my normal mode garrosh trinket 2/4 for heroic kardris' 4/4 and according to SimC it's only a 10k dps upgrade on patchwerk. Can this be correct or is SimC not correctly simulating the dark shaman trinket?

[Deleted]

Does SimC currently undervaluate Heroic Kardris' toxic totem?
I just replaced my normal mode garrosh trinket 2/4 for heroic kardris' 4/4 and according to SimC it's only a 10k dps upgrade on patchwerk. Can this be correct or is SimC not correctly simulating the dark shaman trinket?

I'm fairly sure SC properly values Multistrike, as plenty of people have done trinket tier lists using DPS values gathered from Simcraft. Are you sure that is the only thing that changed? Maybe link your armory so others can verify?

[Deleted]

Does SimC currently undervaluate Heroic Kardris' toxic totem?
I just replaced my normal mode garrosh trinket 2/4 for heroic kardris' 4/4 and according to SimC it's only a 10k dps upgrade on patchwerk. Can this be correct or is SimC not correctly simulating the dark shaman trinket?

Let's look at the following chart as a basis for our analysis:

http://www.totemspot.com/simc/T16/Tr...ste-EchoUF.jpg

Though this chart is a little bit old, the information in it should not have changed dramatically.

Since the chart does not reflect the possibility to upgrade items, let's try to interpret it as best as possible.

So your former "black blood normal (2/4)" may be regarded as being the same as "black blood warforged" in the chart and your newly obtained "kardis toxic totem heroic (4/4)" could be approximated with "kardis toxic totem heroic warforged" in the chart, but would probably do a few k more dps.

So, the chart tells us that "black blood warforged" and "kardis toxic totem heroic warforged" are roughly 6k dps apart from each other.

Taking the higher item level of your actual kardis due to upgrading into account, the difference of 10k dps seems to be quite reasonable to me.

Also, I consider 10k dps to be a lot, dunno why you expected much more. It's not that you upgraded from a blue trinket to a heroic warforged one.

[EverNever]

Awesome guide thank you

[Deleted]

Hey guys, I just recently got the Immerseus trinket and as a result, I believe my gemming priorities have changed. Some guides tell me to go for int+mastery, some say I should also use pure yellow, some say to go for a balance. Robot tells me to do a mix, mostly int+mast with some yellow mastery and haste gems? Am I right to be going down this route? Also I know about the hit rating. I can't get it any lower as a draenei.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Razira/simple

Thanks.

[Deleted]

Is there any way of making a macro that uses Elemental Blast when I'm specced into it, and whenever i'm specced into unleashed fury to use unleash elements instead?
Mainly need this for when I do CMs, it's a pain having to rekeybind those every time.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure if it would work (haven't tested it) but I think in theory if you just made the following macro

/cast Elemental Blast
/cast Unleash Elements

it would work. Macros that contain spells with a GCD in them only cast the first GCD spell then end when you press them, if you are in a spec that doesn't have EB, I would assume it would skip than and cast UE. Not 100% sure, but I'm 90% sure that would work.

[Deleted]

I never thought such a simple macro would do it, it worked perfectly thanks a lot undefetter
Btw I've been wondering, I switched to troll last night, As a troll during the pull, what would be best to do?

scenario 1: Macro Berserking to Ascendance, proceed to spam lvb
scenario 2: Use berserking before flame shock to get extra ticks, unleash elements (specced into unleashed fury) and then ascendance, proceed to spam lvb.