Every Man for himself in WoD

[Yoshimiko]

So, I was looking into starting back into arena in Warlords of Draenor and was curious if the brokenly-OP Every man for himself is remaining how it currently is in the expansion? Will there be buffs to the trinket to compensate or buffs to other racials to be on par?

[Locruid]

Don't understand. There were trinkets before EMFH that does the VERY same thing

Now if you're referring to the fact Humans can equip 2 different trinkets and still have a "Remove CC" button then that's not EMFH fault and has nothing to do with the Racial,

Personally I'd give Humans something else and give EVERYONE a EMFH ability for free and just do away with the crap of using up one trinket for that.

[Terahertz]

EMFG isn't OP, all the other alliance racials besides nelf are just complete dogshit compared to EMFH.

[ZeroA]

So far it's staying , by blizzard logic it isn't op

[Yoshimiko]

Don't understand. There were trinkets before EMFH that does the VERY same thing

Now if you're referring to the fact Humans can equip 2 different trinkets and still have a "Remove CC" button then that's not EMFH fault and has nothing to do with the Racial,

Personally I'd give Humans something else and give EVERYONE a EMFH ability for free and just do away with the crap of using up one trinket for that.

EMFH Is a third trinket. Here's the difference in stats between an Insignia of Dominance vs Medallion of Cruelty:
Dominance gains: 1906 PVP Power, and a proc that gains 6725 Int for 20 seconds, losing 1905 crit rating.

1905 crit rating for 1906 Pvp power AND a 6725 int proc, as a racial. You don't think that's powerful?

[Terahertz]

EMFH Is a third trinket. Here's the difference in stats between an Insignia of Dominance vs Medallion of Cruelty:
Dominance gains: 1906 PVP Power, and a proc that gains 6725 Int for 20 seconds, losing 1905 crit rating.

1905 crit rating for 1906 Pvp power AND a 6725 int proc, as a racial. You don't think that's powerful?

You just proved you don't even know about current PvP. Every non-human uses proc trinket + PvP trinket and they usually roll with engineering.

Break down:
Human = 2x PvP DPS trinkets + baseline CC breaker = 3800~ PvP power + on use trinket and roughly 6700 int proc
Non-human let's say night elf = 1x PvP DPS trinket (always proc trinket) + PvP trinket + shadowmeld = 1900 PvP power + 1900 crit + synapse springs + proc trinket + shadowmeld

Racials like shadowmeld can work as a 2nd PvP trinket.

Racials like orc ragefury or whatever it's called provide 6k+ attack power and 15% reduced stun duration.

Racials like undead provide a second fear break and a passive that can proc for 6-8k and heal you for the amount (may be reduced by battle fatige)

Again, if anything the other alliance racials are dog shit because EMFH compared to horde racials is equally good/slightly better depending on class.

[Yoshimiko]

You just proved you don't even know about current PvP. Every non-human uses proc trinket + PvP trinket and they usually roll with engineering.

Break down:
Human = 2x PvP DPS trinkets + baseline CC breaker = 3800~ PvP power + on use trinket and roughly 6700 int proc
Non-human let's say night elf = 1x PvP DPS trinket (always proc trinket) + PvP trinket + shadowmeld = 1900 PvP power + 1900 crit + synapse springs + proc trinket + shadowmeld

Racials like shadowmeld can work as a 2nd PvP trinket.

Racials like orc ragefury or whatever it's called provide 6k+ attack power and 15% reduced stun duration.

Racials like undead provide a second fear break and a passive that can proc for 6-8k and heal you for the amount (may be reduced by battle fatige)

Again, if anything the other alliance racials are dog shit because EMFH compared to horde racials is equally good/slightly better depending on class.

Orc's are getting nerfed. Bloodfury is already only 4.4k Attack power, nowhere near 6k. 2200 spell power. Also, they're being reduced to 10% reduced stun duration.

Undead's racial has already been nerfed, and is going to be nerfed again. It currently shares CD with trinket, and in the expansion it'll be on a 3 minute CD. Touch of the Grave heals for ~950-1000. I don't even think this can be compared.

IMO These are what I'd considered balance. They don't directly add (significant) levels of power and are varied. Rocket Jump, Shadowmeld, Blood Fury, Arcane Torrent, Stoneform, etc. They all add some flavor to the race. Every man for himself adds another trinket.

[PrairieChicken]

Yes I am very surprised they are still doing nothing about it. But alpha is alpha

[Rabian]

With faction balance the way it is in PvP, the last thing we need is for the human racial to be nerfed. I mean unless horde enjoy 20 min bg ques...

[Deleted]

I dont think you horde guys really want most of the humans re-rolling horde because EMFh is gone, you already have bg que times of 30 mins do you want 45 ? Now that one instant 90 upgrade is available rerolling takes 1 min and costs 0 so figure it out , instant flod to horde.

[Baphomette]

Break down:
Human = 2x PvP DPS trinkets + baseline CC breaker = 3800~ PvP power + on use trinket and roughly 6700 int proc
Non-human let's say night elf = 1x PvP DPS trinket (always proc trinket) + PvP trinket + shadowmeld = 1900 PvP power + 1900 crit + synapse springs + proc trinket + shadowmeld

I don't understand this breakdown at all. Why are you adding engineering to one but not the other? Just compare trinkets:

Human = 5012 PVP Power + 6725 primary stat proc + 4765 primary stat on use
Nonhuman = 3106 PVP Power + 1905 crit + (6725 primary proc OR 4765 primary on use)

Human gains 1906 PVP Power, loses 1905 crit (or spirit or stamina). Unless you're a warrior these are pretty similar in value although I suspect the PVP Power is a little more valuable for every other class. What really makes EMFH OP is the additional burst, which starts off stronger than any other racial and scales into the stratosphere in later seasons as trinket ilvl budgets go up.

Orc Blood Fury: 4.5k AP, 2.25k SP on 2min CD
Dreadful Badge: 2021 Str/Agi/Int on 1min CD (ie, already massively better)
Malevolent Badge: 2553 Str/Agi/Int on 1min CD
Tyrannical Badge: 2881 Str/Agi/Int on 1min CD
Grievous Badge: 3670 Str/Agi/Int on 1min CD
Prideful Badge: 4765 Str/Agi/Int on 1min CD (2-2.5x as powerful on half the cooldown)

THIS is why EMFH is still OP.

[Deleted]

Currently the pvp power on the DPS trinkets alone is something like 5% additional damage vs players. That isn't counting the proc/on use primary stats also on them.

In WoD human spirit will also be buffed to boost 2 stats of their choice!

No race will come close

[Aceveda]

Don't understand. There were trinkets before EMFH that does the VERY same thing

Now if you're referring to the fact Humans can equip 2 different trinkets and still have a "Remove CC" button then that's not EMFH fault and has nothing to do with the Racial,

Personally I'd give Humans something else and give EVERYONE a EMFH ability for free and just do away with the crap of using up one trinket for that.

No, there still won't be any choice in trinkets, and we don't need more dmg from trinkets than there already is. Giving up a slot for CC break is good, and holinka have stated it's not going baseline for everyone. EMFH needs to change to something else, but so far it's untouched.

[melzas]

EMFH is essentially extra trinket, yes. While comparing human vs other races you need to compare trinket value you could use to other racials. Seeing that they buff all races but not human, racials will be more on par with each other. It's hard to judge, and it will be different for every class.

Let's take rogue. Would you rather have extra trinket (some pvp power and and use stat) or extra Cloak of shadows (with stoneform dispelling ALL debuffs, even bleeds) every 2 min and 2% stronger crits. I wouldn't be so sure that extra trinket for some additional burst will always be better. Gnome with 30 sec on root removal and bigger energy pool (which allows better burst) would also be a decent.

I think WoD race choice for pvp won't be as obvious as it is now, those examples I listed will make everyone at least think twice before mindlessy picking human for every class and every scenario.

[DeicideUH]

It all depends on the trinkets, really. If they make Insignia trinket have passive stats as good as other PvP Trinkets, then you are just trading a proc or CD for the CC-break ability.

But yeah, I'd like to see everyone get EMFH as a universal skill and give humans something else. Far more balanced, and we can forget the Insignias.

Also a few notes about WoD PvP:

- PvP Trinkets will have standard stats. No more PvP Power, so the passive benefits of Insignias and other PvP Trinkets will be roughly equal, so humans will probably not be doing 5% more damage against other players all the time.

- There's less CC and less burst, so maybe the value of the trinket and EMFH may be lower as a result.

[Fenixdown]

Orc's are getting nerfed. Bloodfury is already only 4.4k Attack power, nowhere near 6k. 2200 spell power. Also, they're being reduced to 10% reduced stun duration.

Undead's racial has already been nerfed, and is going to be nerfed again. It currently shares CD with trinket, and in the expansion it'll be on a 3 minute CD. Touch of the Grave heals for ~950-1000. I don't even think this can be compared.

IMO These are what I'd considered balance. They don't directly add (significant) levels of power and are varied. Rocket Jump, Shadowmeld, Blood Fury, Arcane Torrent, Stoneform, etc. They all add some flavor to the race. Every man for himself adds another trinket.

They're also removing PvP power. So your argument is still invalid, either way. It's still not overpowered, you're just bad at arena.

[ophion1990]

Give the CC removal trinket increased PvP power, problem solved? :| Humans would still get double dps trinkets but orcs for example have a AP/SP increase aswell. Just buff that rather then making EMFH useless (like the 3 min CD at the start of MoP or Cata, can't remember). EMFH would still be strong, but not outright better then everything else.

They're also removing PvP power. So your argument is still invalid, either way. It's still not overpowered, you're just bad at arena.

That was just completly uncalled for... :|

[Deleted]

As soon as they nerf EMFH im race-changing to dwarf or nelf. THe only reason im human is because of
the damage advantage in pvp. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Artunias]

If it was truly overpowered why are 85% of all the top ranked players horde?

/thread

[ophion1990]

If it was truly overpowered why are 85% of all the top ranked players horde?

/thread

http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/3v3/

Are you even trying?