[Retribution] WoD Alpha/Beta Info & Discussion

[Fhi]

Beta is upon us! There will be lots of information trickling in through in the next few weeks, and we'll try to compile them nicely here. Good or bad, paladins are one of the classes to receive the least amount of changes this time around. Please use this thread to ask, discuss and theorycraft changes to us in the beta.

For the full, current official beta notes (updated June 18th): HERE
Previous Warlords of Draenor Retribution Megathread: HERE


Official Notes

We made a few additional changes to Paladins. We revised the functionality of Hammer of the Righteous a bit, such that its performance is about the same, but its tooltip is much clearer. We also made Stay of Execution much more attractive to use as an emergency button. We also revised how Eternal Flame interacts with Holy Power, and allowed it to once again trigger Illuminated Healing. One big change for Retribution that isn't mentioned here is the removal of Inquisition (see Ability Pruning), which will have a notable effect on their rotation.

• Eternal Flame’s periodic healing effect has been changed. Its duration now scales with Holy Power, instead of its healing. Its effect at 3 Holy Power remains unchanged.
• Hammer of the Righteous now deals 50% Physical weapon damage (up from 15%) to the primary target, but the primary target is no longer hit with the Holy damage.
• Illuminated Healing can once again be triggered by Eternal Flame.
• Seals no longer cost any mana.
• Stay of Execution (the Holy version of Execution Sentence) now deals its healing in a large burst at first, and then decreasing over time (reversed from before).
• Supplication now also increases Flash of Light’s healing by 50%.

Secondary Stat Attunements

A new concept that we’re introducing is each specialization having an attunement to a particular secondary stat. These take the form of a passive ability that grants a 5% increase to the amount of a specific secondary stat gained. This provides a good starting point for where to focus your secondary stats. Usually, it will be your highest throughput stat (not counting Spirit for Healers, and Bonus Armor for Tanks, which is an optimal secondary stat in most cases). There are exceptions, and raw throughput may not even be the biggest concern in some situations. Treat this as a guideline, not a rule, about which secondary stat to favor.

Paladin
Holy: Critical Strike
Protection: Haste
Retribution: Mastery

Ability Pruning

We attempt to prune abilities with the intent to reduce the amount of keybind/macro bloat and merging abilities that served a similar purpose but are otherwise redundant together.

Paladin

• Avenging Wrath is no longer available to Protection Paladins.
• Daybreak now heals all allies within 10 yards for 15% of Holy Shock's healing (instead of 75%, split between each ally).
• Divine Favor has been removed.
• Divine Light has been renamed Holy Light.
• Divine Plea has been removed. Mana costs for Paladins have been adjusted accordingly.
• Guardian of Ancient Kings is now only available to Protection Paladins.
• Hand of Salvation has been removed.
• Holy Light has been removed.
• Inquisition has been removed.
• Judgments of the Bold has been removed.
  
  • Judgment is now naturally free for Holy Paladins, and naturally generates 1 Holy Power for Retribution Paladins.
• Seal of Righteousness is no longer available to Holy Paladins.
• Seal of Truth is no longer available to Holy Paladins.
• The Art of War has been removed.
• Exorcism's cooldown now naturally has a chance to be reset on auto attacks.
• Tower of Radiance has been removed.
  
  • Beacon of Light now naturally generates 1 Holy Power when healing the target of Beacon of Light with Flash of Light or Divine Light.

Instant Cast Heals

Over time, healers have gained a bigger and bigger arsenal of heals that they can cast while on the move, which removes the inherent cost that movement is intended to have for them, while also limiting players’ ability to counter healing in PvP. This left Silences and crowd control (which we’re trying to curb) as the only ways to actually limit an enemy player's healing output. We're still preserving the option to instantly heal, but are reducing the number of instant-cast healing abilities overall. Raid and dungeon encounter damage during high-movement phases will be adjusted accordingly. Here are some examples:

Paladin

• Eternal Flame now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast) for Holy Paladins.
• Guarded by the Light (Protection) now also makes Word of Glory and Eternal Flame instant cast.
• Light of Dawn now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
• Sword of Light (Retribution) now also makes Word of Glory and Eternal Flame instant cast.
• Word of Glory now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).

Crowd Control and Diminishing Returns

Another big takeaway from Mists of Pandaria is that there was simply too much crowd control (CC) in the game. To solve that, we knew that we needed an across-the-board disarmament. Here's a summary of the player-cast CC changes:

• Removed Silence effects from Interrupts. Silences still exist, but are never attached to an Interrupt.
• Removed all Disarms.
• Reduced the number of Diminishing Returns (DR) categories.
  
  • All Roots now share the same DR category.
    
    • Exception: Roots on 'Charge' types of abilities have no DR category, but have a very short duration instead.
  • All Stuns now share the same DR category.
  • All Incapacitate ("Mesmerize") effects now share the same DR category, and have been merged with the Horror DR category.
• Removed the ability to make cast-time CC spells instant with a cooldown.
• Removed many CC spells entirely, and increased the cooldowns and restrictions on others.
  
  • Pet-cast CC is more limited and often removed.
  • Cyclone can now be dispelled by Immunities and Mass Dispel.
  • PvP trinkets now grant immunity to reapplication of an effect from the same spell cast, when they break abilities with persistent effects like Solar Beam.
  • Long fears are now shorter in PvP, to account for the target also needing to run back afterward.

Additionally, we've significantly reduced the number of throughput-increasing cooldowns and procs, in order to further reduce burst damage. Please keep in mind when reading the specifics of the patch notes that some classes may have lost abilities, or had the power of select abilities reduced. These changes were made in the context of the above goals. Other classes have a reduced crowd-control ability overall. We believe that this entire package of changes will make PvP a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

Paladin

• Blinding Light has been removed.
• Repentance's cast time has been increased to 1.7 seconds.
• Turn Evil's cast time has been increased to 1.7 seconds and now has a 6-second duration in PvP (down from 8 seconds).

New Talent Tree

















New Glyphs

	Glyph of Ardent Defender
	Glyph of Divine Wrath
	Glyph of Hand of Freedom
	Glyph of Judgment
	Glyph of the Consecrator
	Glyph of the Liberator

Datamined changes since the most recent official notes (updated June 18th) - All Specs

Keep in mind that these changes are not final, and a great deal could change before the expansion ships!


Beta Build 18505

• Reckoning Taunts the target to attack you, and increases threat that you generate against the target by 200% for 3 sec. 3.5% of Base Mana. 30 yd range. Instant. 8 sec cooldown.

Protection

• Grand Crusader When you dodge or parry avoid a melee attack you have a 30% chance of refreshing the cooldown on your next Avenger's Shield and causing it to generate 1 Holy Power. Paladin - Protection Spec.

Alpha Build 18471

• Item - Paladin T17 Holy 4P Bonus (New) Heal has a 10% chance to imbue you with Light's Grace. Light's Grace increases your spirit by 10% for 10 sec.
• Item - Paladin T17 Protection 4P Bonus (New) When you block an attack, you have a chance to gain the Defender of the Light effect. Defender of the Light increases your shield block value by 50% for 8 sec. (Approximately procrppm procs per minute)

Holy & Retribution

• Supplication For 8 sec after you kill an enemy that yields experience or honor, your next Flash of Light will be increased by 100% and has 50% increased critical strike chance.Paladin - Holy & Retribution Spec.

Holy, Protection, Retribution

• Flash of Light Heals a friendly target for [ 185.3% of Spell Power ;]. Paladin - Holy, Protection, Retribution Spec;]. 23% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.

Alpha Build 18443

• Item - Paladin T17 Holy 2P Bonus Increases the healing of Word of Glory and Light of Dawn by 10%. When you cast Word of Glory, you gain Light's Favor, which lets you cast a free Light of Dawn at 25% effectiveness. When you cast Light of Dawn, you gain Lawful Words, which lets you cast a free Word of Glory at 25% effectiveness.
• Item - Paladin T17 Retribution 2P Bonus Increases the damage of Crusader Strike by 10%. Judgment has a 101% chance to immediately deal 10% of the total damage of your Censure effect to the target.
• Item - Paladin T17 Retribution 4P Bonus Using Templar's Verdict or Divine Storm empowers has a 30% chance to empower you with Crusader's Fury. Crusader's Fury increases all damage dealt by 5% for 5 sec. allows the use of Hammer of Wrath regardless of your target's current health.

General - All Specs

• Beacon of Light The target becomes a Beacon of Light to all party and raid members within 0 to 60 yards. Only one target can be the Beacon of Light at a time. Beacon of Light Your spells Your heals on other party or raid members will also heal the Beacon for a percentage of Light target for up to 50% of the amount healed. Your Holy Radiance, Light of Dawn, Light's Hammer, and Holy Prism will heal for 15% of the amount healed. All other heals will heal for 50% of the amount healed. 60 yd range. Instant. Flash of Light and Holy Light on the Beacon of Light target will also generate 1 Holy Power. 60 yd range. Instant.
• Crusader Strike An instant strike that causes 100% weapon damage plus 0. Requires Melee Weapon. 15% of Base Mana. Melee range. Instant. 4.5 sec cooldown.
• Flash of Light A quick, expensive heal that heals a friendly target for [ 185.3% of Spell Power ]. 23% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.
• Hammer of the Righteous An instant strike that causes 100% weapon damage plus 0. Requires Melee Weapon. Unlimited range. Instant.
• Hand of Sacrifice (Holy, Protection) Places a Hand on a party or raid member, transferring 30% damage taken to the Paladin. Lasts 12 sec or until the Paladin has transferred 100% of their maximum health. Places a Hand on a party or raid member, transferring 30% damage taken to the Paladin for 12 sec or until the Paladin has transferred 100% of their maximum health.
• Hand of Sacrifice (Retribution) Places a Hand on a party or raid member, transferring 30% damage taken to the Paladin and removing all harmful Magic effects from the target. Lasts 12 sec or until the Paladin has transferred 100% of their maximum health. Places a Hand on a party or raid member, transferring 30% damage taken to the Paladin and removing all harmful Magic effects from the target for 12 sec or until the Paladin has transferred 100% of their maximum health.
• Judgment (Holy) A magic attack that unleashes the energy of a Seal to cause [ 1 + 50.21% of Spell Power + 60.3% of AP ] Holy damage. Causes [ 1 + 50.21% of Spell Power + 60.3% of AP ] Holy damage. Requires an active Seal to cast.
• Judgment (Protection) A magic attack that unleashes the energy of a Seal to cause [ 1 + 50.21% of Spell Power + 60.3% of AP ] Holy damage and generates one charge of Holy Power. Causes [ 1 + 50.21% of Spell Power + 60.3% of AP ] Holy damage and generates 1 Holy Power. Requires an active Seal to cast.
• Judgment (Retribution) A magic attack that unleashes the energy of a Seal to cause Causes [ 1 + 50.21% of Spell Power + 60.3% of AP ] Holy damage, generate one charge of Holy Power, and apply the Physical Vulnerability debuff to a target. damageand generates 1 Holy Power. Physical Vulnerability Weakens the constitution of an enemy target, increasing their physical damage taken by 5% for 30 sec. Requires an active Seal to cast.

Talents

• Beacon of Faith Mark a second target as a Beacon, mimicking the effects of Beacon of Light. Beacon of Light The target becomes a Beacon of Light to all party and raid members within 0 to 60 yards. Only one target can be the Beacon of Light at a time. Beacon of Light Your spells Your heals on other party or raid members will also heal the Beacon for a percentage of Light target for up to 50% of the amount healed. Your Holy Radiance, Light of Dawn, Light's Hammer, and Holy Prism will heal for 15% of the amount healed. All other heals will heal for 50% of the amount healed Flash of Light and Holy Light on the Beacon of Light target will also generate 1 Holy Power. Paladin - LvL 0 Talent. 60 yd range. Instant. 3 sec cooldown.
• Empowered Seals Your Seals also cause your Judgment to empower you with an additional beneficial effect which persists through changing Seals: Judgment of Justice Increases your movement speed by 20% for 20 sec. Judgment of Insight Heals you for 5% 3% of your maximum health every 2 sec for 20 sec. Judgment of Righteousness Increases your attack speed by 30% for 20 sec. Judgment of Truth Increases your attack power by 15% for 20 sec. Paladin - LvL 0 Talent.
• Hand of Purity Places a Hand on the friendly target, reducing damage taken by 10% and damage from harmful periodic damage over time effects by an additional 80% (less for some creature attacks) for 6 sec. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time. Paladin - LvL 60 Talent. 7% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. Instant. 30 sec cooldown.

Holy

• Avenging Wrath Imbues you with wrathful light, increasing healing done by 100%, haste by 20%, critical chance by 20%, and damage done by 20%. Lasts and haste, critical strike chance, and damage by 20% for 20 sec. Paladin - Holy Spec. Instant. 3 min cooldown.
• Beacon of Light The target becomes a Beacon of Light to all party and raid members within 0 to 60 yards. Only one target can be the Beacon of Light at a time. Beacon of Light Your spells Your heals on other party or raid members will also heal the Beacon for a percentage of Light target for up to 50% of the amount healed. Your Holy Radiance, Light of Dawn, Light's Hammer, and Holy Prism will heal for 15% of the amount healed. All other heals will heal for 50% of the amount healed Flash of Light and Holy Light on the Beacon of Light target will also generate 1 Holy Power. Paladin - Holy Spec. 60 yd range. Instant. 3 sec cooldown.
• Daybreak After casting Holy Radiance, your next Holy Shock will also heal other allies Casting Holy Radiance causes your next Holy Shock to also heal each ally within 10 yards of the target for an amount equal to 75% 15% of the original healing done, divided evenly among all targets. Stacks up to 2 times. Paladin - Holy Spec. Can accumulate up to 2 charges. Paladin - Holy Spec.
• Holy Light A large heal that heals a friendly target for [ 185.3% of Spell Power ;]. Good for periods of heavy damage. Paladin - Holy Spec. 11.5% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2.5 sec cast.
• Holy Radiance Imbues a friendly target with radiant energy, healing that target for [ 151.32% of Spell Power ] and all allies within 10 yards for 50% of that amount. Grants a charge of half that amount. Grants 1 Holy Power. Healing effectiveness diminishes for each player target beyond 6. Paladin - Holy Spec. 44% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 2.5 sec cast.
• Holy Shock Blasts the target with Holy energy, causing Deals [ 102% of Spell Power ] Holy damage to an enemy, or [ 122.16% of Spell Power ] healing to an ally, and granting a charge of grants 1 Holy Power. Holy Shock has 2.0 times double the normal critical strike chance. Paladin - Holy Spec. 7.1% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. Instant. 6 sec cooldown.
• Infusion of Light Increases your haste by 10%. Additionally, your Holy Shock critical effects Your Holy Shock criticals reduce the cast time of your next Holy Light, Divine Light, or Holy Radiance by 1.50 sec. Paladin - Holy Spec. Also increases your haste by 10%. Paladin - Holy Spec.
• Light of Dawn Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to emanate unleash a wave of healing energy, healing up to 6 of the most 6 injured targets in your party or raid within 30 yards for [ 1 + 24.5% of Spell Power ] per charge of Holy Power up to [ 3 + 73.5% of Spell Power . Paladin - Holy Spec. 1 Holy Power. 1.5 sec cast.
• Light's Beacon The target becomes a Beacon of Light to all party and raid members within 0 to 60 yards. Only one target can be the Beacon of Light at a time. Beacon of Light Your spells Your heals on other party or raid members will also heal the Beacon for a percentage of Light target for up to 50% of the amount healed. Your Holy Radiance, Light of Dawn, Light's Hammer, and Holy Prism will heal for 15% of the amount healed. All other heals will heal for 50% of the amount healed Flash of Light and Holy Light on the Beacon of Light target will also generate 1 Holy Power. Paladin - Holy Spec. 60 yd range.

Protection

• Avenger's Shield Hurls your shield at an enemy target, dealing [ 2 + 237.6% of AP ] Holy damage, silencing and interrupting spellcasting interrupting and silencing the target for 3 sec, and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects 3 total targets 2 additional nearby enemies. Requires Shields. Paladin - Protection Spec. 7% of Base Mana. 30 yd range. Instant. 15 sec cooldown.
• Grand Crusader When you dodge or parry a melee attack you have a 30% chance of refreshing the cooldown on your next Avenger's Shield and causing it to generate a charge of Holy Power if used within 6 sec. Paladin - Protection Spec. 1 Holy Power. Paladin - Protection Spec.

Protection & Retribution

• Seal of Righteousness Fills you with Holy Light, causing melee attacks to deal 5% weapon damage to all targets within 8 yards. Instant. Paladin - Protection & Retribution Spec. Instant.
• Seal of Truth Paladin - Protection & Retribution Spec.

Protection, Retribution, Retribution

• Hammer of the Righteous Hammer the current target for 35% weapon damage, causing a wave of light that hits all other targets within 8 yards for 20% Holy weapon damage. Grants a charge of 1 Holy Power. Requires Melee Weapon. Paladin - Protection, Retribution, Retribution Spec. 3% of Base Mana. Melee range. Instant. 4.5 sec cooldown.

Retribution

• Divine Storm An area attack that consumes 3 charges of Holy Power to cause Deals 50% weapon damage as Holy damage to all enemies within 8 yards. Requires Melee Weapon. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 3 Holy Power. Instant.
• Exorcism Forcefully attempt to expel the evil from the target with a blast of Holy Light. Causes Blasts the target with Holy Light, causing [ 1 + 117.1% of AP ] Holy damage and generates a charge of generating 1 Holy Power. Your autoattacks have a 20% chance of resetting the cooldown of your Exorcism. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 4% of Base Mana. 30 yd range. Instant. 15 sec cooldown.
• Mastery: Hand of Light Your Crusader Strike, Hammer of the Righteous, Hammer of Wrath, Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm Divine Storm, and their multistrikes deal 14.8% additional damage as Holy damage. Paladin - Retribution Spec.
• Sanctity Aura (New) You radiate holy energy, granting all nearby party and raid members 3% Versatility. Paladin - Retribution Spec.
• Sword of Light Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 30%. Your spell power is now equal to 100% of your attack power, and you no longer benefit from other sources of spell power. Grants 6% of your maximum mana every 2 sec. Increases the healing done by Word of Glory by 60% and Flash of Light by 100%, and Word of Glory is now instant. Paladin - Retribution Spec. Paladin - Retribution Spec.
• Templar's Verdict A powerful weapon strike that consumes 3 charges of Holy Power to deal deals 185% weapon damage. Requires Melee Weapon. Paladin - Retribution Spec. 3 Holy Power. Melee range. Instant.

Major Glyphs

• Glyph of Ardent Defender Ardent Defender no longer reduces damage takent taken, but if its duration expires without being consumed, its cooldown will be reset to 60 sec. Major Glyph.

Changelog:
2014-07-02: Added beta build 18505.
2014-06-30: Updated Glyph of the Consecrator tooltip description.
2014-06-28: Initial post.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Hai guyz...

[TheZ]

Not sure if this has been touched on yet or not, but does EmpS:Justice movement speed bonus stack with LAotL/PoJ? Or does the highest one overwrite the others? EmpS:Justice and LAotL might make for some interesting speed bursts if they do stack.

[anaxie]

Scared me fhi

[Gracin]

Scared me fhi

No joke, I was like crap what did Anaxie say this time. :P

Not sure if this has been touched on yet or not, but does EmpS:Justice movement speed bonus stack with LAotL/PoJ? Or does the highest one overwrite the others? EmpS:Justice and LAotL might make for some interesting speed bursts if they do stack.

Not 100% sure, but I think they are making any/all movement speeds stackable. I wanna say I read/heard it from Blizzcon, but they've changed plenty since then so no guarantees.

[celinamuna]

inc re-copy paste of last 5 pages from previous thread

[Fhi]

No joke, I was like crap what did Anaxie say this time. :P

Brb banning anaxie.

[Gracin]

Brb banning anaxie.

Like that would be out of the norm? I'm more surprised when I see anaxie is actually able to post.

OT: Have they made a damage pass on the beta so far? I did a ton of damage, basically two shotting every mob during the Portal event.

[Fhi]

Not sure if this has been touched on yet or not, but does EmpS:Justice movement speed bonus stack with LAotL/PoJ? Or does the highest one overwrite the others? EmpS:Justice and LAotL might make for some interesting speed bursts if they do stack.

I think it does stack with PoJ. Maybe not with Long Arm (both are temporary buffs). From the way they explained, Long Arm should take effect for 3s at 45% speed, then EmpS for the remaining 17s at 20% speed.

[Sett]

This is a nice and clean list. I didn't realize the glyph changes 'til now.

[Rogal Dorn]

Not sure if this has been touched on yet or not, but does EmpS:Justice movement speed bonus stack with LAotL/PoJ? Or does the highest one overwrite the others? EmpS:Justice and LAotL might make for some interesting speed bursts if they do stack.

Self movement speed bonus are stackable in wod I guess.
From patch notes:
Movement speed buffs that are self-only or is a passive effect are considered non-exclusive, and will now all stack together additively.
Movement speed buffs that are temporary or could be applied to other players are considered exclusive, their effects do not stack, and only the highest bonus gets applied (in addition to non-exclusive movement speed buffs).

[ruiizu]

Hoping Final Verdict gets a more...Final...animation.

[Deleted]

I really like that it seems they read our threads over here after seeing what they plan for our 4 piece bonus. I suggested early in our Alpha discussion thread to have a proc for Hammer of Wrath added in our rotation. At least they are trying it for our 4 piece Tier 17 bonus first and maybe it comes out to be liked by many to be finally introduced as a core mechanic. Who knows and only time will tell.

I still hope that Seraphim gets discarded as soon as possible as it just is not attractive to use. I find it totally boring and generic to use unbelievable 5 (FIVE!!!, I mean seriously 5!) Holy Power to get a mediocre buff to our secondary stats for only 10 seconds where you can hardly build up enough resources to even dish out two Templar's Verdicts. Moreover one usually plans ahead to have 5 Holy Power ready for add spawns to dish out 1 Divine Storm, one Hammer of the Righteous and then the second Divine Storm for maximizing AE Burst DMG but Seraphim would also counterplay this and would be totally worthless in this scenario if adds have to die quickly. I really hope it gets replaced by something worthwhile soon to have a better alternative to Empowered Seals and its clusterfuck of many GCDs standing there and changing seals while doing no DMG at all every other second.

I do not understand the flame war for Final Verdict though. Blizzard nearly always delivers one passive version where you hardly have to do anything at all to gain the bonus and they repeatedly said so in the past that they want to provide players with different playstyle options. Final Verdict is likely going to be the best choice for single target fights but it does nothing at all for our AE-DMG whereas the other two options push every ability in our arsenal so currently I see only Empowered Seals as option for add heavy fights like galakras or spoils.

I really hope they bring back the mechanic of generating one Holy Power when Divine Storm hits 3/4 and more targets to push our AE capabilities because as it stands now in Beta we are totally abysmal whereas currently on live we are one of the best classes in the AE department.

[ujx]

Ret is shit aoe without t16 4pc?!?!?!

[Sett]

Hoping Final Verdict gets a more...Final...animation.

Me too. If it is the slam animation that is just lame. TV has a much more unique one.



Also hoping for Inq's 'glowy' hands buff to return if it hasn't already.

[Lyese]

Om nom, that's a juicy OP.

Everyone's getting beta invites, and I'm just sitting here. :/

I can't wait to see the actual numbers on MS interaction rather than argue imaginary ones. I expect it to be completely RNG, but some hard data would be useful.

[Deleted]

Ret is shit aoe without t16 4pc?!?!?!

Did you even read or play about Alpha/Beta changes to our spells? Compared to what we have on Live Servers and especially without T16 4 piece bonus Ret AE dmg is on the low side in Beta, yes.

[TheZ]

I still hope that Seraphim gets discarded as soon as possible as it just is not attractive to use. I find it totally boring and generic to use unbelievable 5 (FIVE!!!, I mean seriously 5!) Holy Power to get a mediocre buff to our secondary stats for only 10 seconds where you can hardly build up enough resources to even dish out two Templar's Verdicts. Moreover one usually plans ahead to have 5 Holy Power ready for add spawns to dish out 1 Divine Storm, one Hammer of the Righteous and then the second Divine Storm for maximizing AE Burst DMG but Seraphim would also counterplay this and would be totally worthless in this scenario if adds have to die quickly. I really hope it gets replaced by something worthwhile soon to have a better alternative to Empowered Seals and its clusterfuck of many GCDs standing there and changing seals while doing no DMG at all every other second.

I don't think Seraphim is that bad that it has to go. They could make it work kind of like Zealotry used to by having it require 5 holy power to activate, but not consume the holy power.

Some further changes I think that might help would be to make the Tier 6 talents generate holy power (holy prism 1 and the others 3). This would cause seraphim to synergize well with the t6 talents, by using seraphim->TV->ES->TV->etc. every minute. As well as make the T6 talents more integrated into the ret "rotation" of gaining and spending holy power, rather than just as another cd to press when it comes up. (This is unlikely since I've heard blizz wants to reduce cd stacking like this, but I can still dream!)

Another thing might be to use a charge system (kind of like conflagrate) for Seraphim rather than giving the t6 talents the ability to generate holy power, but still retaining the zealotry like activation. By messing around with the recharge time (change to 1 minute) and duration (change to 20 seconds) we could use it to power up strong procs from weapons/trinkets/bloodlust/etc for higher burst.

[Lyese]

I like the ideas, especially the Tier 6 HoPo ones, but I disagree about Seraphim's existence. 20s/1m uptime would make it a weaker AW, and it would just encourage cd/proc stacking.

[Rathimis]

Maybe Prot will use Seraphim? I know as both Ret and Holy I'm not gonna touch it, surely it will get redone.

I'd like to see EmpSeals grant a Holy Power when switching seals.