Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

Thread summed up real nicely:

Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
Pro-flying: I like flying.

Did I get that right?

[Maneo]

Are you kidding me? There are several legitimate reasons for it being gone that have been mentioned several times over every one of these flying threads.
You can call it an attack but I'll call it being honest. I'm not gonna play the little game people play here and let you twist words.


I'll throw this here too from my server the other day. I've seen it mentioned several other times and every single time there are people for it and not anyone against. Again, you're the vocal minority.

Go mention flying in your trade and see what the ratio of people for/against is.

Great lets take a sample from trade chat (the people that are already planting their asses in capital cities). See your little sample there pretty much excludes the people that are actually out in the world fucking you know doing thing. If you really think the majority are going to get to max level find out no flight trainer is to be found... and say "Yay now I can experience all the BS content I did while leveling all over again" I dont know what to tell you.

I will be honest the removal of flight could be great for the game IF Blizzard made drastic changes, but they have proven they are either to creatively bankrupt or ignorant to do this.

It doesn't take a twisting of words to shoot down every pathetic attempt the anti flight people keep posting lying to themselves that this is better for the game and those that play it. Every time your precious anti flight talking points are shot down, you become conveniently (one of ya really loves that word) silent only to rear your ugly heads hoping that the boards have forgotten that you were shot down.

It is real simple this has nothing to do with making a better game and all to do with making the devs jobs easier, cutting costs, and a futile attempt to slow down the consumption of content.

It is really simple it is like Field of Dreams (build it they will come) ... If Blizzard makes good content players will play it regardless of what mount they are on.

I will ask once again ... what is innovative, original, creative or even exciting about this expac?

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Thread summed up real nicely:

Anti-flying: Flying breaks my game (even though I have played it for the past 7 years with it) WPVP RAWR!!!!
Pro-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is not detrimental to the game as a whole.

Did I get that right?

Na but I took a moment to correct that for you.

- - - Updated - - -

Thread summed up real nicely:

Anti-flying: Flying breaks my game (even though I have played it for the past 7 years with it) WPVP RAWR!!!!
Pro-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is not detrimental to the game as a whole.

Did I get that right?

Na but I took a moment to correct that for you.

[Aeno]

This is getting embarrassing.

You said about feeling immersed not me so it is you who is being subjective.

Yes. I feel immersed regardless of flying. You don't. So don't fly. It's as simple as that. Yeah, it was subjective. But I ALSO SAID IT WAS AS AN EXAMPLE. Hurpa durpa

You missing the point isn't subjective, believe me - its a reoccurring issue.

Not being able to interact with the world and the world not being able to interact with you is not subjective it is fact. It is the very basis of how the game works and if you hadn't noticed allows you to go AFK with impunity.

I bolded and underlined the subjective parts. See below for more to add to your "It's not subjective" diatribe. Either way: Octuple lol for ad homonem attack. Nontuple lol for the second one.

Dude like this whole subject is subjective. That's the only reason there is so much debate. There is 600 pages because anytime anyone says anything someone else goes 'derp that's just subjective opinion'.

Except that you can provide objective opinions for why it "ruins the game" or "makes it better" without degrading into "KILLS TEH GAYME EXPURINCE"

Yea, you're kind of SUPPOSED to run through those areas. If you disdain the world so much then the WORLD of Warcraft isn't for you. Traveling through the world is part of being in the world. The scenery from my house to work gets pretty old, but the only way to get there is to go through the world. It's part of the immersion.

First time through on characters, okay. At max? Fuck no. Tedium in a nutshell right there.

More and more it sounds to me like you people don't want an open world game at all. Because traveling through it is kind of the point of it all.

You can create openness without forcing people to move slower just because it is convenient for lazy developers.

Thread summed up real nicely:

Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
Pro-flying: I like flying.

Did I get that right?

Summed up terribly and disrespectfully. Post with more than childish quips please.

[urasim]

Thread summed up real nicely:

Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
Pro-flying: I like flying.

Did I get that right?

It's actually:

Pro-flying: There is nothing wrong with flight, and it actually increases participation in the world for some players.
Anti-flying: Subjective and biased opinions based off uneducated, nostalgia ridden nonsense with terribly worded posts.

[CheeseSandwich]

Okay. Now i have a task for you. Come up with an idea how to balance flying, just little one, which would make it reasonable to leave it in-game. And i don't mean arguments like "i bought mounts", because you can still use them all, just in some less charming position.

If Blizz made the flying with some CD attached, there still would be people complaining. I can see those threads "Why can't I fly for the entire time and have to make pauses every 5 minutes?"

I think that using ground mounts only allows devs to lead players in a better/proper direction during the questing (you can explore the world simulatenously with the progressing plot) , which expands the overall experience.

-reduce flying mount speed, even up to equal or lesser that of ground mounts
-make flying only unlockable for a zone, or continent once you have completed all the quests/story line in that zone
-increase the gold cost to unlock flying license
-make content based around and highlighting the benefits of flying
-develoup a way for flying to be more interactive with the world (for e.g. weather effects, NPC AA mechanics, flight fatigue etc).

Still, that is an attempt to balance it, rather than remove it altogether.

Once you have explored that world via leveling and questing, where is the replay value in making max level players trudge through all of that again? Haven;t they earned the right and power to chose to fly over that insignificant shite, on the way to the content that matters to them?

1)First of all, you can use it everywhere but Draenor. Second, you can fly everywhere but Draenor, you can enjoy Draenor visually without flying above it. Third, this isn't a flight simulator, flying is not a main feature of the game.


2)Everyone is moving at the same pace, you'll get there when others get there. You aren't any slower than anyone else and it won't take you that long to get where you're going to begin with.

3)You aren't removed from the world. You're taking public transportation. Are you removed from the world when you ride the subway because you can't hop off on the tracks at any time? Hovering above the world on a mount indefinitely removes you even more, at least on a flight path you have to come back down.

4)I don't disagree with that. If they could restrict flying from being infinite and OP like it is now it'd be good. But I can't personally think of a system that would work well.



5)It's called a sample size. 3 people for and 1 against times 100 is till 3x the amount of people for. But go ahead and keep trying to dismiss it. 1 person even said he would buy WoD because of no flying, that right there is proof from a random player that not having flying has gained 1 sub. Which means it is possible that no flying will gain more subs than it will lose. Which IMO people who are gonna play WoW will play with or without flying.

I'm not gonna give you points because there are about 600 pages of points in this thread. Not to mention I asked for a point first and got 'what's the reason for removing it'? That's not a point that's ignorance of the other sides points.

1)If I buy the WoD expac with a flying mount as an extra, I expect to be able to use that flying mount as intended in WoD. Plus, I didn't fork out extra cash on those flying mounts to have them restricted to the ground in the content I will be spending the majority of time at max level.

You can enjoy everywhere in WoW visually without flying, however, seeing as flying has been encouraged, designed for, marketed to and used as a reward for obtaining power, specifically close to or at max level, and it isn't a gamebreaker, why is it all of a sudden a problem?

It also isn't an equestrian simulator, being stuck on a ground mount isn't a main feature of the game.

2)This is very zen, but it doesn't address the fact my freedom of choice while travelling is lost. Also, How is this a point for the removal of flying? Seems to be the same net result wither way.

3)So you are able to engage with the world when you take the IF to SW subway? You are able to engage the world when on a flight path? Are you assuming that just because I can fly I am mounting up, flying to the top of the sky box and going into ignore mode for the duration of my play time, and do you think this is a good reflection on how people use flying?
If so, I got some news for ya...

"Flight paths land, and people on flying mounts don't". Is that your argument?

4)I can think of a couple, but neither you or I are highly paid game develoupers, and if they can't come up with ways to deal with elements of their own game, then what hope do you have that they will implement effective, enjoyable things that will replace those elements?

5) As much as I want for you to be able to use this as evidence, I just can't. I could log in now (after i resub), get 4 mates to get ready to reply to me in trade, talk about flying being out of WoD being bad, have them all say "I agree", and I defeat your argument. Not solid grounds to build a case from, sorry.

[Aeno]

It's actually:

Pro-flying: Subjective and biased opinions based offof nostalgia-ridden nonsense and a complete disdain for anybody who opposes them, but is a MUST-HAVE for max level players and not so required for those leveling up.
Anti-flying: Subjective and biased opinions based off of nostalgia-ridden nonsense and a complete disdain for anybody who opposes them.

Underlined the fix'd parts

[Maneo]

Okay. Now i have a task for you. Come up with an idea how to balance flying, just little one, which would make it reasonable to leave it in-game. And i don't mean arguments like "i bought mounts", because you can still use them all, just in some less charming position.

If Blizz made the flying with some CD attached, there still would be people complaining. I can see those threads "Why can't I fly for the entire time and have to make pauses every 5 minutes?"

I think that using ground mounts only allows devs to lead players in a better/proper direction during the questing (you can explore the world simulatenously with the progressing plot) , which expands the overall experience.

Ok I will give a few ideas how to balance flight.

First how bout flying isn't allowed only in the level 100 zone, once the next content patch is released flying will be enabled in that zone but not in the new one.

How bout you can only mount up on your flying mount in designated areas but can land anywhere.... Hell with that one you could even make that some real world pvp objectives

Or do it like they always have (cept cata) flying is only when you reach max level after you have completed the majority of the content and world story. Yes yes I know Blizz is saying they want the max level experience to be more like the leveling with questing and what not.... Seriously how long is that going to last do you really think Blizz is capable of releasing content every 2 months 3 months ... yeah it is going to get drab and boring really quick...

[Dormie]

It's actually:

Pro-flying: There is nothing wrong with flight, and it actually increases participation in the world for some players.
Anti-flying: Subjective and biased opinions based off uneducated, nostalgia ridden nonsense with terribly worded posts.

Sooo delusional. You say it increases world participation with absolutely no proof, then say the others are just giving biased opinions an d nostalgia? That's like the epitome of ignorant posts on this forum. Why is this thread not locked? It's not going to go anywhere.

[Aeno]

Okay. Now i have a task for you. Come up with an idea how to balance flying, just little one, which would make it reasonable to leave it in-game. And i don't mean arguments like "i bought mounts", because you can still use them all, just in some less charming position.

If Blizz made the flying with some CD attached, there still would be people complaining. I can see those threads "Why can't I fly for the entire time and have to make pauses every 5 minutes?"

I think that using ground mounts only allows devs to lead players in a better/proper direction during the questing (you can explore the world simulatenously with the progressing plot) , which expands the overall experience.

No flying until 100 just like WoD. There's a content area for 100 only that is No-Flying (Just like Ashran, so that is 2?)
All new areas are No-Flying.

Sooo delusional. Why is this thread not locked? It's not going to go anywhere.

Just leave if you're going to leave childish quips instead of engaging in an actual debate. Derailing threads is just another way of exacting your non-specific revenge blindly.

[Maneo]

Summed up terribly and disrespectfully. Post with more than childish quips please.

You would take away most of the argument they have .. and they wouldn't feel like the internet cool guy.. so I wouldn't hold your breath.

[urasim]

Sooo delusional. Why is this thread not locked? It's not going to go anywhere.

It would go somewhere if you actually posted a rational argument that isn't filled with subjective nonsense.

[Aeno]

It would go somewhere if you actually posted a rational argument that isn't filled with subjective nonsense.

He's done this several times throughout the WoD General subforum so I doubt it will stop.

[Deleted]

Yes. I feel immersed regardless of flying. You don't. So don't fly. It's as simple as that. Yeah, it was subjective. But I ALSO SAID IT WAS AS AN EXAMPLE. Hurpa durpa

I bolded and underlined the subjective parts. See below for more to add to your "It's not subjective" diatribe. Either way: Octuple lol for ad homonem attack. Nontuple lol for the second one.

If it was an example that you knew was subjective why did you underline it? To defeat your own statement? Or did you forget and are now back tracking?

I am beginning to wonder if you know what subjective actually means. Facts are not subjective. You cant interact with the world whilst in flight. What part of this do you think is subjective?

- - - Updated - - -

Thread summed up real nicely:

Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
Pro-flying: I like flying.

Did I get that right?

Pretty much.

[Maneo]

Sooo delusional. You say it increases world participation with absolutely no proof, then say the others are just giving biased opinions an d nostalgia? That's like the epitome of ignorant posts on this forum. Why is this thread not locked? It's not going to go anywhere.

Then stop posting ... or you could actually bring up a point. I am quite confident it will be one that has already shot down but it may be entertaining to those who are new to the board.

[Aeno]

If it was an example that you knew was subjective why did you underline it? To defeat your own statement? Or did you forget and are now back tracking?

I am beginning to wonder if you know what subjective actually means. Facts are not subjective. You cant interact with the world whilst in flight. What part of this do you thing is subjective?

I assume basic Human intellect when I speak to somebody. I am sorry if it is lacking. (BTW THAT IS SUBJECTIVE AND AN AD HOMONEM ATTACK LOLOLOL IMMA UNDERLEYN IT EVRYWERE"

Facts are subjective if you think that they are facts, as you think that they are, rather than them BEING facts.
You interact with the world when you log-in and click anything. You CAN interact with the world even in flight. THAT WAS SUBJECTIVE BTW CUZ YOUR ARGUMENT IS AS WELL. I interact with the world as I fly, because I don't afk when I autofly to places. I look at the terrain, I check my guild chat, I talk in General, all of that jazz.

EDIT: Speaking of, I don't think that anybody has mentioned that General/Trade channels are subjective. You aren't even next to the player when you talk to others in those channels. Eh, just more fodder for the anti-flyers to ignore I suppose.

[Nadster]

I think it's a great change. Though I can understand why so many people are upset.

I never felt that the game was in need of flying at all, I didn't mind when they implemented it and I won't mind if they take it away.

[Dormie]

THERE'S NO DEBATE HERE!

Someone gives a point. Someone else says it's subjective or an opinion. There isn't any progress here.

[Maneo]

You cant interact with the world whilst in flight. What part of this do you think is subjective?

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Pretty much.

Your right I can't interact with the world on a flight path. However when I am on my peronal flying mount I can land anytime I want and interact with the parts of the world that are worth interacting with at max level.

[Aeno]

THERE'S NO DEBATE HERE!

Someone gives a point. Someone else says it's subjective or an opinion. There isn't any progress here.

Subjective. And a post that has zero meaning to the debate. Sorry if I followed your post to a T, but seriously. Provide some actual facts rather than anecdotal madness in a conversation that has room for more than that.

[Dormie]

It would go somewhere if you actually posted a rational argument that isn't filled with subjective nonsense.

Why would I bother when it's ignored every time I do? I'm trying to highlight the dense attitude people have here. It doesn't matter what anyone says because the next person is going to pick it apart and twist words.

Just leave if you're going to leave childish quips instead of engaging in an actual debate. Derailing threads is just another way of exacting your non-specific revenge blindly.

I'm not derailing anything other than the vicious circle of bullshit posts coming from people ignoring previous posts.

Then stop posting ... or you could actually bring up a point. I am quite confident it will be one that has already shot down but it may be entertaining to those who are new to the board.

Literally none of the points have been shot down with anything other than 'that's subjective'.

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. Provide some actual facts rather than anecdotal madness in a conversation that has room for more than that.

You first. 'It's tedious' and 'lazy devs' are not arguments.


Here's a few points off the top of my head.
-You see more people when everyone is on the ground.- Fact.
-Flying over the world removes you from it.- Common opinion.
-The world is made smaller by flying mounts.- Borderline fact. Disagreeing would be like saying the world hasn't become smaller since flight was invented IRL.