Prot Sacred Shield question

[Warstar]

Does Sacred Shield shap shot vengeance? Or do the shields that it applies fluctuate based on current levels of vengeance? IE: if while off tanking I apply Sacred Shield should I reapply it after a taunt and I get more vengeance?

[Demsi]

The absorb amount of your SS is affected by your vengeance at the time you apply it.

[Jellospally]

Get a weakaura that snapshots your total attack power when you casted it. Also, track your current attack power(not vengeance) at all times.

Though it doesn't really matter because you really shouldn't use this anymore.

[Deleted]

Though it doesn't really matter because you really shouldn't use this anymore.

That it's not the absolute best on paper doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. The healers in my previous team were struggling quite a bit so I wanted to use every HP I had on SoTR, and thus never had anything to keep my EF up. Then when solo tanking Garrosh and absolutely swimming in vengeance I found SS to be a decent substitution.

And as Demsi stated the strength of the absorb is determined upon casting, every shield generated during those 30 seconds will be of the same strength.

[Deleted]

That it's not the absolute best on paper doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. The healers in my previous team were struggling quite a bit so I wanted to use every HP I had on SoTR, and thus never had anything to keep my EF up.

This is why i run 4 set.

[Deleted]

Not everyone has access to the 4-set bonus.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Not everyone has access to the 4-set bonus.

You don't need the 4set bonus for EF to still be far better than SS, you just have to be using EF properly. If you can't effectively use EF then yeah SS is gonna be better, but that is a matter of player skill. The extra damage you take from spending the 3 HP on EF is typically healed just in the initial heal, then you've got a hot ticking for 100k-300k every 2 seconds for the next 30 seconds.

[Deleted]

The 100k tick is not going to be better compared to a 55%+ damage reduction against Garrosh' 500k+ swings. Preventing damage is just as effective as healing it back, where each of them excel over the other at certain times.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

The 100k tick is not going to be better compared to a 55%+ damage reduction against Garrosh' 500k+ swings. Preventing damage is just as effective as healing it back, where each of them excel over the other at certain times.

The initial heal at that level of vengeance is typically going to be in excess of 900k, then you toss in the HoT and you're looking at several million damage covered by self-healing. The ticks at that much vengeance are also going to be in the range of 200k-250k, then you toss in SoI heals and you are healing most of the damage you take rather than making the healers do it.

[Deleted]

The initial heal can be as big as it is, but there will be overhealing in that, and you'll have SoI ticks regardless of whether you spend your HP on EF.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

The initial heal can be as big as it is, but there will be overhealing in that, and you'll have SoI ticks regardless of whether you spend your HP on EF.

Yes, there is indeed overhealing but it is your overhealing and not the healers. The less strain on the healers the better. The three seconds of SotR lost for a 5 stack EF will not kill you unless you make a major mistake.

[Basemath]

Haven't used Sacred Shield for a while. On fights where we frequently sit over 200k vengeance I end up having healed myself for 23m+ n healers sitting around 6-7m, and i'm last in overhealing. I understand your point though Thraene. TBH I never knew all the ticks were a snapshot. Must ask, however, how big are the shield ticks exactly? let's upward of 200k vengeance.

[Xs]

The initial heal can be as big as it is, but there will be overhealing in that, and you'll have SoI ticks regardless of whether you spend your HP on EF.

Just pop Divine Protection when you need to EF, if you have it glyphed the healers will barely notice.

[Basemath]

Just pop Divine Protection when you need to EF, if you have it glyphed the healers will barely notice.

That would be an incorrect way of using Divine Protection imo.

TBH I think by trying to use all your HP for SotR max uptime you're actually putting more strain on the healers. If the healers are over geared and skilled perhaps they won't need your help in healing. For me I found that the healers always appreciated my help in healing. You can only help heal the raid effectively with EF.

[celinamuna]

1)If healers are struggling in keeping you up on Garrosh either you or they are playing very wrong.
2)EF lasts for 30 seconds. You can use it at the start of whirl and it will last till next one. W/O losing any relevant SotR uptime.
3)EF > SS even at low mastery levels.

[trystero]

Well played paladins are almost invincible with AM and vengeance. The only time healers are relevant is like when you're stunned vs. Korven.

[Deleted]

You're not giving your healers enough credit.

[Xs]

That would be an incorrect way of using Divine Protection imo.

If you've got it talented, its a 30 second cooldown, if you have a fight based reason to use it every 30 seconds then go ahead, but keeping a steady flow of damage is the reason Paladins started going Haste in the first place, and its the reason everyone hates and has always hated flat avoidance.

[Deleted]

Literally the only time it is logical to use SS is when you expect an attack to one shot you even with mitigation up.
If you dont get instantly killed EF is about 4x the throughput on the hot (even disregarding the initial heal), and ticks about twice as fast meaning you spend more time at full hp.

And in answer to not giving healers enough credit: I run EF and normally do about 70-90% of the healing on me, the only external healing i get is disc priest atonement heals and the occasional hot from our druid.

[Deja Thoris]

That it's not the absolute best on paper doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. The healers in my previous team were struggling quite a bit so I wanted to use every HP I had on SoTR, and thus never had anything to keep my EF up. Then when solo tanking Garrosh and absolutely swimming in vengeance I found SS to be a decent substitution.

And as Demsi stated the strength of the absorb is determined upon casting, every shield generated during those 30 seconds will be of the same strength.

The healers in my team were struggling so I went with a talent that gives 1/4 of the healing at the cost of 3HP every 30 seconds. Bravo.

Sarcasm aside, EF beats SS by such a large margin it should be a no contest, not just on paper. Theres no fight where SS > EF this tier. Even niche fights like Nazgrim HC, the extra effective health SS gives you is just a crutch for bad play (can't hit shield of the righteous on executes?)

With EF and SoI you will be healing ~2/3 of the damage you take. SS doesn't come close even with the extra 3HP you gain every 30 seconds without the 4 set.

Finally if you aren't good enough to use EF well then you aren't good enough to use SS well either imo.