Will 5 man heroics and heroic raid difficulty be a problem

[THE Bigzoman]

Looking at fatboos vids of normal dungeons has me very pleased with PVE form in WOD. But i'm concerned that people will find the content too hard like they did in Cata.

Not that it bothers me, as hard=compelling content in my book.

Hell, the normal dungeons looks fun as shit.

[Deleted]

Hopefully this time around having four different difficulties and 5 man and lfr dropping almost the same ilvl of gear the "baddies" can stick to the easier stuff...one can wish though.

[The Kao]

Unlike Cata, heroic 5 mans and raids aren't meant for everyone in WoD. Those who can't deal with it still have 5 man normals, LFR and NHC raiding, so everyone will be able to play at launch. Proving Grounds and guild group restrictions will make sure that you won't find many unfit players in heroic 5 mans.

[Xeraxis]

If they are too hard they'll be nerfed before or as part of the first content patch. If they aren't too difficult for the masses then they'll still be too easy for anyone with half a functioning brain.

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Unlike Cata, heroic 5 mans and raids aren't meant for everyone in WoD. Those who can't deal with it still have 5 man normals, LFR and NHC raiding, so everyone will be able to play at launch. Proving Grounds and guild group restrictions will make sure that you won't find many unfit players in heroic 5 mans.

They weren't meant for everyone in Cata either. Blizzard however was smart enough to see where their money comes from and changed their stance.

[THE Bigzoman]

If they are too hard they'll be nerfed before or as part of the first content patch. If they aren't too difficult for the masses then they'll still be too easy for anyone with half a functioning brain.

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They weren't meant for everyone in Cata either. Blizzard however was smart enough to see where their money comes from and changed their stance.

They were the only linear path for gear and progression. If one doesn't like a certain scene, they can take another route to get their gear.

This is Blizzards attempt to appeal to all playstyles and preferences. The majority shouldn't dictate how everyone else should play and instead go their preferred route.

[Xayl1]

eh from what I have seen The normal modes won't be pug-crushingly hard if folks can get into the mind set of actually using CC and mob positioning instead of the current tactic of pull room, smash aoe. even the fatboss dudes said that most the hard pulls would be less hard if they actually used CC and pulled smarter. Heroics on the hand might get some panties in a twist but in my opinion as a slightly below average player so what? this seems like the first expansion in the history of the game that has a viable endgame for top-tier raiders and casuals without really forcing them onto each other and that might just be a good thing.

[TheRickyB]

They were the only linear path for gear and progression. If one doesn't like a certain scene, they can take another route to get their gear.

This is Blizzards attempt to appeal to all playstyles and preferences. The majority shouldn't dictate how everyone else should play and instead go their preferred route.

Then the majority and their money will leave. the minority will get less and less content and the game will die. Blizzard knows where their money comes from, and they act accordingly. dont like it? leave and find a game that caters to "hardcores", fun fact, you wont find many if any.

[Saft]

I'm pretty sure lvl 100 normals and heroics will fix that, unless bads somehow convinces Blizzard they're entitled to heroics and get them nerfed to shit.

[Xeraxis]

They were the only linear path for gear and progression. If one doesn't like a certain scene, they can take another route to get their gear.

This is Blizzards attempt to appeal to all playstyles and preferences. The majority shouldn't dictate how everyone else should play and instead go their preferred route.

Right which is why Blizzard will cater to the majority of lesser skilled players. They are well aware that if those players don't like the scene they'll get their MMO fix elsewhere.

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I'm pretty sure lvl 100 normals and heroics will fix that, unless bads somehow convinces Blizzard they're entitled to heroics and get them nerfed to shit.

You must be new to MMOs if you believe Blizzard will keep the difficulty high enough that it will bar some players.

[BeauFox]

Considering you need at least Silver in the proving grounds before you can queue for in via dungeon finder, that should hopefully keep most people from complaining about the difficulty, that and we should have more competent players willing to CC every now and then. And if all these other difficulties somehow fail to keep people from complaining about the difficulty in heroics I'll be convinced they're just trying to go out of their way to complain about it.

[Phookah]

Right which is why Blizzard will cater to the majority of lesser skilled players. They are well aware that if those players don't like the scene they'll get their MMO fix elsewhere.

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You must be new to MMOs if you believe Blizzard will keep the difficulty high enough that it will bar some players.

Its a bit different this time around, as we'll actually have normal level 100 dungeons, and not JUST heroic at max level.

[Leih]

Bear in mind a lot of the normal modes in current beta are vastly overtuned, and the tuning for a lot of classes and specs is way out of whack, so it's very difficult to gather anything about the actual tuning at the moment.

[Saft]

You must be new to MMOs if you believe Blizzard will keep the difficulty high enough that it will bar some players.

I believe the second part of my post implied just that, whining ensues and heroics get nerfed like they've always been after extended forum QQ.

[nekobaka]

Then the majority and their money will leave. the minority will get less and less content and the game will die. Blizzard knows where their money comes from, and they act accordingly. dont like it? leave and find a game that caters to "hardcores", fun fact, you wont find many if any.

This assumption that the "majority" all want the same thing. Paths are being made for those who like something different this time around. Not sure why the bitching that those who like something different are getting options. Also yes there are games that cater to hardcore and is far more hardcore than WoW.

Considering you need at least Silver in the proving grounds before you can queue for in via dungeon finder, that should hopefully keep most people from complaining about the difficulty, that and we should have more competent players willing to CC every now and then.

This time around there is alternatives and having the silver proving grounds requirements sets the expectation that it isnt for everyone. I still expect some post launch tuning. Dang even now the tuning is far from complete and still the infancy state. Blizzard can now use the same thing the LFR camp has been using against those who dont like it which is dont like it then dont do it. There is another option right in the complainers face, but instead they only care about themselves and want it all to themselves with no care about the majority despite claims saying otherwise. The heroic five man gear is also worse than LFR gear despite putting in more effort than LFR.

Bear in mind a lot of the normal modes in current beta are vastly overtuned, and the tuning for a lot of classes and specs is way out of whack, so it's very difficult to gather anything about the actual tuning at the moment.

Yeah that upscaling is nice, but has its issues especially when you dont have access to max level talents and abilities. Then you have the issue that players are used to effectively soloing five mans for over a year with little effort and even then at MoP launch having heroics that made WotLK normals look hard.

[Xayl1]

Considering you need at least Silver in the proving grounds before you can queue for in via dungeon finder, that should hopefully keep most people from complaining about the difficulty, that and we should have more competent players willing to CC every now and then. And if all these other difficulties somehow fail to keep people from complaining about the difficulty in heroics I'll be convinced they're just trying to go out of their way to complain about it.

I'm pretty sure that covers most of the louder folks in those kinds of arguments heh. but idk as a person who wanted the heroic nerfs in cata I see these as two completely separate instances. back then there was nothing else to progress to and it was a very real wall for alot of folks. (although I do think they tuned them down a bit much) but with the WoD set up there really isn't a lot to complain about you can go right from Normal dungeons to LFR and whatever your guild brings you on. which sounds very much like a progression path to me.

[Xeraxis]

Its a bit different this time around, as we'll actually have normal level 100 dungeons, and not JUST heroic at max level.

Do those normal dungeons offer the same ilevel that the heroic ones do? If not it's going to be the same whine and bitchfest it's always been.

[nekobaka]

Do those normal dungeons offer the same ilevel that the heroic ones do? If not it's going to be the same whine and bitchfest it's always been.

The heroic gear requires more effort to obtain than LFR, but is weaker than LFR gear. If someone is complaining then they are just self centered assholes who make the majority look bad.

[Xeraxis]

The heroic gear requires more effort to obtain than LFR, but is weaker than LFR gear. If someone is complaining then they are just self centered assholes who make the majority look bad.

And once those in heroic 5 man gear want to progress and hit normal then the jump to heroic raiding tell me again how they won't use the difficulty as reason for their stall? Once again Blizzard will say that in the interest of progression the difficulty will be dropped but Mythic will stay the same. That is until some heroic raiders can't handle Mythic and Blizzard knocks that down a peg. Sorry but progression wasn't the issue in Cata it was just what the ignorant masses believed from Blizzard when they weren't skilled enough to truly progress out of 5 mans and into raiding (note: that's just for those who were unskilled and couldn't progress those with time management issues had their own gripes I'm sure.).

[Radio]

Super casual path: Levelling > Normal Dungeons > LFR
Casual path: Levelling > Normal Dungeons > LFR > Normal Raid
Semi hardcore path: Levelling > Normal Dungeons > LFR OR Heroic Dungeons > Normal Raid > Heroic Raid
Hardcore path: Levelling > Normal Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > Normal Raid > Heroic Raid > Mythic Raid
Super hardcore path: Levelling > Heroic Dungeons > Normal Raid > Heroic Raid > Mythic Raid

Looks nice and inclusive!

[Deja Thoris]

It's all speculation. Classes aren't tuned and neither are the dungeons.

I think their benchmark is they want stuff to be harder than now but easier than cata. I guess that leaves a lot of wiggle room :P