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  1. #21
    Playing Enhancement on 100 pvp server and loving it.
    1) Just use Flame Shock instead of Frost Shock with Unleash Flame (and Elemental Fusion x2 if talent taken) buff up.
    2) Mastery affects Lightning Bolt, Flame Shock, Elemental Blast, Ascendance, Liquid Magma and probably something else i missed for single target dps. Most fights aren't pure single target either.
    3) Stormstrike affects Lightning bolt and Elemental Blast, and technically chain lightning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    From everything I've read it does feel like they destroyed the synergy that Enhance shaman had with dealing elemental damage, which is a big draw for me. A warrior infusing his attacks with the primal forces around him. Now it just feels so watered down and lacking of direction.
    Uh... How? Barely anything changed since MoP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    Removing sources of nature damage, such as getting rid of static shock instead of making it meaningful, removal of nature damage from ascendance removed a lot of its flavour for me. I think my Shaman will carry on but as Elemental.
    Ascendance still deals nature damage afaik, "Wind Attacks" that bypass armor sounds like nature damage to me
    Last edited by Chaosturn; 2014-08-06 at 04:34 PM.
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  2. #22
    Playing Enhancement on 100 pvp server and loving it.
    1) Just use Flame Shock instead of Frost Shock with Unleash Flame (and Elemental Fusion x2 if talent taken) buff up.
    2) Mastery affects Lightning Bolt, Flame Shock, Elemental Blast, Ascendance, Liquid Magma and probably something else i missed for single target dps. Most fights aren't pure single target either.
    3) Stormstrike affects Lightning bolt and Elemental Blast, and technically chain lightning.

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    From everything I've read it does feel like they destroyed the synergy that Enhance shaman had with dealing elemental damage, which is a big draw for me. A warrior infusing his attacks with the primal forces around him. Now it just feels so watered down and lacking of direction.
    Uh... How? Barely anything changed since MoP.

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    Removing sources of nature damage, such as getting rid of static shock instead of making it meaningful, removal of nature damage from ascendance removed a lot of its flavour for me. I think my Shaman will carry on but as Elemental.
    Ascendance still deals nature damage afaik, "Wind Attacks" that bypass armor sounds like nature damage to me
    "Wind attacks that bypass armor" are physical attacks. The damage just ignores their armor rating. It doesn't scale with mastery. At all. Ascendance is shit now. It just lets you attack on the move.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    Ascendance still deals nature damage afaik, "Wind Attacks" that bypass armor sounds like nature damage to me
    No, they're physical damage, like Windfury. Blizz kept the bypassing armor thing in specifically, so it is kinda rare in physical bypassing armor. It being pyhsical means though that it will no longer benefit from mastery, which many on beta say neutered enh Ascendence damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by The Crapster View Post
    "Wind attacks that bypass armor" are physical attacks. The damage just ignores their armor rating. It doesn't scale with mastery. At all. Ascendance is shit now. It just lets you attack on the move.
    How is it shit if it bypasses armor? boss armor is like 34% iirc, that's still a pretty big cooldown even if it doesn't scale with mastery. Doesn't change how you play either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    No, they're physical damage, like Windfury. Blizz kept the bypassing armor thing in specifically, so it is kinda rare in physical bypassing armor. It being pyhsical means though that it will no longer benefit from mastery, which many on beta say neutered enh Ascendence damage.
    I see... Alright, so that change makes haste more valuable i guess, so you can fit in more stormstrikes bypassing armor.
    Last edited by Chaosturn; 2014-08-06 at 04:34 PM.
    Where i upload all my music:
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    How is it shit if it bypasses armor? boss armor is like 34% iirc, that's still a pretty big cooldown even if it doesn't scale with mastery. Doesn't change how you play either.

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    I see... Alright, so that change makes haste more valuable i guess, so you can fit in more stormstrikes bypassing armor.
    If WS (new SB) gets fixed it will. Currently ascendance SS doesn't benefit from improved SS and so barely does more damage even with the armor bypass. That 34% even still is only off your auto's and SS - so it's going to be a small cooldown at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  6. #26
    Deleted
    In my opinion, every spell/attack of the enhancement shaman should deal nature/fire/frost damage. Its a melee caster and it would make perfectly sense to me. The big change of switchting earthshock with frostshock makes me super sad . Just delete the damage of frostshock, so its only there for slowing ppl and give us the damn earthshock back.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    I see... Alright, so that change makes haste more valuable i guess, so you can fit in more stormstrikes bypassing armor.
    Haste becomes more valuable for us because of a lot of reasons.
    -It'll be our spec specific 5% boosted 2ndary stat, of which every spec has one.
    -EotE procs of pretty much everything, so more haste => more procs => more SS/LLs
    -new Flurry makes haste reduce LL/SS/Shock/FN/UE cooldowns, as well as the gcd. No idea wether they'll include EB in that
    -Haste increases the amount of FS ticks, which will be able to reset LL cd

    And it indirectly becomes more valuable through mastery becoming irrelevant for Ascendence. Mastery will still be good for Shocks, aoe in general, LB/EB and LL though, just to name the most important. Especially considering the amount of LLs we will have with FS ticks and new EotE, and also stuff like Liquid Magma or Elemental Fusion, it is very hard to say just how good mastery will be, especially with the number pass yet to come.

    Basically the more of our damage is contributed through elemental damage, the more worthwhile mastery will be.
    There's a thread surmising about the highest benefit. Personally I think Haste > Mastery/Agility > Crit > Multistrike/Versatility, based on nothing than a gut feeling, as I haven't played for a while, nor have beta access.

    One thing's for sure, they definately didn't slack in trying to make enh more fun playstyle-wise. Now if only they showed the same vigor in pvp design
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  8. #28
    Will EB even be a "possible" choice since LB does so much of our overall damage?


    How's UF looking? I'd love to give that "do barely anything spell" I have to cast now a bit more "ooomph"

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    Will EB even be a "possible" choice since LB does so much of our overall damage?


    How's UF looking? I'd love to give that "do barely anything spell" I have to cast now a bit more "ooomph"
    Yea, our design is so clashy. Everything is just clash clash clash, the talents and perks and what not really don't play well with each other. Lightning Bolt got buffed to be our best, or one of our best abilities, so replacing it with elemental blast is just kind of silly.
    Do not underestimate us.

  10. #30
    Maybe change Eb tooltip:

    Elemental Blast:
    Charges your Lightning Bolt with the Elements of Fire, Water and Earth, additionally increasing it's damage by xx%, dealing elemental damage and providing the shaman with either...(list of buff effects).

    This would get rid of the cooldown AND be less ability bloat material. It would definately feel better playstyle-wise for enh, as a cd linked to a ppm doesn't feel very good. If not, they at least will have to make EB benefit from new Flurry. This would allow higher uptime of EB buff for enh .

    Edit: The new visual would be Lightning Bolt, surounded by Elemental Blast (a LB in the middle, with the three fire/frost/earth effects around it)
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    Will EB even be a "possible" choice since LB does so much of our overall damage?


    How's UF looking? I'd love to give that "do barely anything spell" I have to cast now a bit more "ooomph"
    UF/PE/EB were actually all fairly competitive in the last build, with UF tending to pull ahead on more extended fights (I found, anyway). With the damage buff to LB (which was a perk for exclusively Elemental which has now been baked in for Enhancement also), I suspect UF is going to be the strongest talent, although PE could still be more useful if you have burst phases in which you need to frontload the bonus damage.

    In terms of EM/AS/EotE, EotE has been lagging behind both of them universally in my tests so far, by a noticeable margin.

    LM/SET/EF also seems similarly imbalanced in favour of LM at the moment.

    (All of this is from a PvE perspective.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    Uh... How? Barely anything changed since MoP.
    I think they mean the actual direction of the spec. Although rotationally nothing has really changed except it's become a lot more spammy, a lot of the actual synergy between abilities, debuffs etc. have been removed, with things like stormstrike debuff only really affecting one ability, lightning shield being rather nothing-y now (although obviously the reflective damage is a small boost on fights) etc. It's more of a theme complaint rather than a gameplay one.
    Last edited by mmoc0df596f2b8; 2014-08-07 at 04:03 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyarai View Post
    In terms of EM/AS/EotE, EotE has been lagging behind both of them universally in my tests so far, by a noticeable margin.
    Sims agree with all of this. Echo is just mechanically inferior to the haste talents, because haste gives you more time to execute the extra abilities it offers you via a lower GCD. Echo procs just eat up "dead time," which we have very little of if you're hardcasting as much as you should be, so in practice it actually just eats time you otherwise would have spent on lower-priority abilities. That, and Stormstrike/Lava Lash aren't very strong at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyarai View Post
    with things like stormstrike debuff only really affecting one ability
    Don't really understand this point. Yes, the stormstrike debuff "only" affects lightning bolt in most cases now, but WoD lightning bolt is a lot stronger than the combined contribution of MoP LB+ES+LS, so the debuff is more important and more impactful in WoD than it is in MoP.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    Don't really understand this point. Yes, the stormstrike debuff "only" affects lightning bolt in most cases now, but WoD lightning bolt is a lot stronger than the combined contribution of MoP LB+ES+LS, so the debuff is more important and more impactful in WoD than it is in MoP.
    I was replying to someone else who was replying to someone else who complained about the lack of synergy/direction in the spec compared to what their used to be. It's not a complaint in terms of a balance point of view.

  14. #34
    I never cared about that debuff, it was always on the target anyway, I would prefer that it was lust removed and the spells it affected were balanced without it.
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  15. #35
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    Hmm, i so need a beta already
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  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolretadin View Post
    Self healing for many hybrids is an issue; I think the best analog for this would be Ret with a comparatively low mana pool and expensive heals. I think both classes got a bit boned in self-healing right now.
    Yeah, especially since our healing was nerfed so much, but def CDs, immunities are still as powerful and additionally, all percent based self heals are now a lot stronger compared to live.

    That's the problem with the new PVE concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    How is it shit if it bypasses armor? boss armor is like 34% iirc, that's still a pretty big cooldown even if it doesn't scale with mastery. Doesn't change how you play either.

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    I see... Alright, so that change makes haste more valuable i guess, so you can fit in more stormstrikes bypassing armor.
    They nerfed a CD that buffed 20% of our damage by 250-300% for 15 sec on a 3min CD (roughly a 20%*2.5 = 50 /12 = 4% overall damage) down to 50% for 15 sec, which is a nerf by about 80%....

    Ascendance is kind of shitty now. 20% of our damage are getting buffed by 50%... if it is 50% at all. Didn't test it yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Haste becomes more valuable for us because of a lot of reasons.
    -It'll be our spec specific 5% boosted 2ndary stat, of which every spec has one.
    -EotE procs of pretty much everything, so more haste => more procs => more SS/LLs
    -new Flurry makes haste reduce LL/SS/Shock/FN/UE cooldowns, as well as the gcd. No idea wether they'll include EB in that
    -Haste increases the amount of FS ticks, which will be able to reset LL cd

    And it indirectly becomes more valuable through mastery becoming irrelevant for Ascendence. Mastery will still be good for Shocks, aoe in general, LB/EB and LL though, just to name the most important. Especially considering the amount of LLs we will have with FS ticks and new EotE, and also stuff like Liquid Magma or Elemental Fusion, it is very hard to say just how good mastery will be, especially with the number pass yet to come.

    Basically the more of our damage is contributed through elemental damage, the more worthwhile mastery will be.
    There's a thread surmising about the highest benefit. Personally I think Haste > Mastery/Agility > Crit > Multistrike/Versatility, based on nothing than a gut feeling, as I haven't played for a while, nor have beta access.

    One thing's for sure, they definately didn't slack in trying to make enh more fun playstyle-wise. Now if only they showed the same vigor in pvp design
    Haste actually is pretty weak for us. Mastery and Multistrike are stronger. And as mastery buffs AOE...

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Haste actually is pretty weak for us. Mastery and Multistrike are stronger. And as mastery buffs AOE...
    If this is true...we need to tweet the devs about this.
    It can't be our WORST stat when its our "Focused" stat...that would be contrary to the whole "Focused Stat" ideology

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    If this is true...we need to tweet the devs about this.
    It can't be our WORST stat when its our "Focused" stat...that would be contrary to the whole "Focused Stat" ideology
    A big part of it is because Liquid Magma is the only level 100 talent that does any significant damage at the moment (tuning issue), and LM also doesn't scale with haste at all (mechanical issue), but it's also because they buffed the value of our mastery specifically in this build by baking elemental's +% shock and +% lightning bolt perks into the baseline spells.

  19. #39
    This sounds like there is going to be massive "number tuning" to our LB and Shock base damage then...

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    This sounds like there is going to be massive "number tuning" to our LB and Shock base damage then...
    I am honestly losing hope for LB to get significantly weaker, given how it's been a power house for so much of the beta you'd think they might just half the damage to get the point across to begin with if they were going to bring it more in line with today and make us more physical damage orientated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

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