Concerns about LFR loot

[Deleted]

It has been known for ages that LFR loot would be higher ilevel than heroic 5-man loot. By the time LFR opens if you haven't already spammed heroic 5-mans and gotten into normal+ content you belong in LFR it's part of your progression. Blizzard wants to make LFR unappealing for dedicated raiders, if you're not geared for raiding before LFR opens you're not very dedicated. Most of the reason to run LFR wasn't the tiny ilevel boost, it was for tier and trinkets. The former has been removed from LFR, the latter has been neutered.

Let it go.

Oh really and what about new players what will join the game after all wings are open? Why should they run hc dungeons when LFR drops better gear? And why should my guild invite them to the guild when they dont have LFR gear yet? Becouse we will not invite anybody with lower then LFR gear for heroic progress then lower then heroic gear for Mythic progress.

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Don't like it don't do it.

So tired of blizzard shiting on LFR because of the 0.1% who bitch about it. The ilvl is fine and you can gear faster in heroic's and be raid ready.

Again our guild will not invite you with HC dungeon gear. GL with your LFR.

[Simmias]

why are the bad players always obsessed about itemlevel?

[Anzaman]

I'd prefer to have LFR items to be 5 item levels higher than 5-man heroics, instead of 10.

[nekobaka]

Don't like it don't do it.

Funny how players who used that reply got called elitist dbags, but now it is like a holy chant.

I'd prefer to have LFR items to be 5 item levels higher than 5-man heroics, instead of 10.

It is fairly telling when a developer thinks a sizable portion of players would rather do harder heroics over LFR resulting in the death of LFR if the rewards are equal. So much for those heroics being impossible for "casuals", but than again players who lable the wide vareity of players between two groups are really only looking out for themselves and not a group they claim to be self representative of.

[HeedmySpeed]

I'd be more concerned with flex gear. Lfr might not be part of the progression but flex mode having separate lockout and tier gear means you'll be expected to run it since flex will undoubtedly be a joke like it is now.

[Kickbuttmario]

why are the bad players always obsessed about itemlevel?

We aren't. None of us want the same shit to happen with MoP again. Where new players NEED to do LFR to gear up for the flex/normals of SoO.

If the ilevel difference was like 5, it would have been fine.

[RoKPaNda]

Oh really and what about new players what will join the game after all wings are open? Why should they run hc dungeons when LFR drops better gear? And why should my guild invite them to the guild when they dont have LFR gear yet? Becouse we will not invite anybody with lower then LFR gear for heroic progress then lower then heroic gear for Mythic progress.

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Again our guild will not invite you with HC dungeon gear. GL with your LFR.

Why do you think that new players are part of your pool of potential raiders? New WoW players are extremely casual. WoW raiding is not something that appeals to new players in the slightest. What you're describing is an extremely tiny portion of the WoW population and you expect Blizzard to cater to that? "Oh, you're super casual and you joined the expansion late and now suddenly you want to be a raider and this situation is extremely unlikely but just for you we're going to cripple LFR." *boggle*

No offense, I'm not trying to be mean or anything but quite frankly nobody cares if your guild doesn't accept them because they don't meet some arbitrary gear minimum. There are plenty of other guilds out there with a more casual and relaxed environment that will take newer / casual players and be a better fit for them.

[Alroxas]

No offense, I'm not trying to be mean or anything but quite frankly nobody cares if your guild doesn't accept them because they don't meet some arbitrary gear minimum. There are plenty of other guilds out there with a more casual and relaxed environment that will take newer / casual players and be a better fit for them.

Perhaps he's point to that his guild has a required investment level on the part of the applicant? At the very least, I don't expect a raid team to bring in a new member if they aren't at the level where the team is raiding at. For instance, a heroic (wod: mythic) raid team wouldn't bring in a lesser equipped raider (as in more than 30~40 ilv below the average of everyone else) on progression.

Seriously though, I don't quite understand people who are ill-equipped asking to join higher end teams without doing the work necessary to get up to that level first. It's not like there isn't enough tools existing already (oQue, openraid, etc.)

[Hellrime]

We aren't. None of us want the same shit to happen with MoP again. Where new players NEED to do LFR to gear up for the flex/normals of SoO.

If the ilevel difference was like 5, it would have been fine.

LFR isn't more difficult than MoP heroics, so frankly they don't deserve it. Also from the looks of the heroics dungeons in WoD it is clear that actually heroic dungeon gear should be higher iLvl than that of LFR in it's current state. LFR is 6 good players, 2-tanks, 2-3 healers and 1 decent dps who down the boss while 19-20 other windowlickers AFK and die to a mechanic that a 5 yr old would know was not good to stand in.

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Even if it's as big as a tier the difference between ilevels is much smaller. Your power gain won't scale like it did in the past. Just your health.

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When Heroic raid gear is the same ilevel as LFR gear you might have an argument.

Also the new group finder will form your raids for you. It supports all current and legacy content as well as pvp and arenas. It will have a minimum ilevel for certain content to be listed much like the finder for Flex currently works now.

Blizzard also said you can grab 9 other friends and queue LFR as a 10 man instance free from the random pugs. So the special snowflakes that don't believe others should be in LFR can run it by themselves.

I would rather they just burn LFR to the ground and make other play the same game as the rest of us. Rewarding people similarly for doing less work doesn't exactly teach people to strive to be better at something. It only shows them that whining and entitlement is how to get ahead.

[Hupriest]

I would rather they just burn LFR to the ground and make other play the same game as the rest of us. Rewarding people similarly for doing less work doesn't exactly teach people to strive to be better at something. It only shows them that whining and entitlement is how to get ahead.

I didn't know WoW was an educational tool :P.

OT: LFR loot if fine and if you are worrying about gearing your alts or coming late to the expac, then you are addressing the issue the wrong way. The new progression system is not addressing the issue of Billy playing the game 5 months after everyone else or wanting to gear his 10th alt; the system is trying to solve the problem of having two different player bases feeling like they are being forced to interact with each other. LFR was never meant to be part of the progression ladder for those who enjoy endgame raiding, but that is what happened with tier and op trinkets (UVLS anyone?). By removing tier and neutering lfr trinkets, they prevent this from happening (in theory).

Complaining how coming into the game late or gearing an alt will force you to do lfr is not a valid argument since 1) The new system is not designed as a catchup mechanic and was created with the assumption that everyone started playing on day one of the expac and 2) Its your bloody alt! Alt as in 'alternate toon' as in 'Gear on this toon is not as important as gear on my main and might take a little longer to get on the same level'.

I personally do not enjoy lfr and do run it as little as possible on new toons currently but I just because I do not like it doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way. LFR was great idea that was implemented poorly in Cata and hopefully, come WoD, will be fixed and everyone can be smiles & rainbows and complain about something else for once.

[Valdarix]

Not to hijack such a heated discussion on LFR loot but does anyone have any insight if jumping from Heroic Dungeons -> Heroic Raids will be valid. Will we need to complete normal raids to do heroic raids?

[Krazzorx]

Crafted gear is your friend. It includes all weapons and nearly every piece of armor to help with bad luck drops in raids and can be higher ilvl than LFR. (You can only equip 3 pieces, but its highly unlikely you'll get that much bad RNG that a raider would need more than 3 pieces of crafted gear)

[Tharkkun]

LFR isn't more difficult than MoP heroics, so frankly they don't deserve it. Also from the looks of the heroics dungeons in WoD it is clear that actually heroic dungeon gear should be higher iLvl than that of LFR in it's current state. LFR is 6 good players, 2-tanks, 2-3 healers and 1 decent dps who down the boss while 19-20 other windowlickers AFK and die to a mechanic that a 5 yr old would know was not good to stand in.

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I would rather they just burn LFR to the ground and make other play the same game as the rest of us. Rewarding people similarly for doing less work doesn't exactly teach people to strive to be better at something. It only shows them that whining and entitlement is how to get ahead.

LFR is a tool for players to experience content which is otherwise out of their reach. It's also a catch up mechanic which worked well last expansion. The only difference is the drop rate is being significantly increased.

It's really no different than either timeless isle farming, chaining heroics together for badge gear (see TBC) or running dungeons for gear with ilevels slightly below the current raid tier (LK and Cata). Those who want to do better will continue to do so and awarding catch up gear will not stunt this progress.

[Eazy]

We aren't. None of us want the same shit to happen with MoP again. Where new players NEED to do LFR to gear up for the flex/normals of SoO.

If the ilevel difference was like 5, it would have been fine.

I see no problem actually. New players also NEED to do Normal to gear up for Heroic. It's a part of the MMO games I think...

Guild group with are doing raids with you, do you have it?

If you have -> go LFR with them and setup LFR raids in your calendar(you guys will gear up to do normal, then you'll gear up to do heroic, and then for mythic(kick 5 players anyway)).
If you don't -> why do you need better gear anyway if you don't have guild group for raids?

It's like saying "we're forced to do normal because we need to gear up for mythic".

[DechCJC]

This has been talked about to death. LFR item level is fine at 640 since it will open in slow wings compared to heroic dungeons which can be repeated many times at launch when gearing. There needs to be some incentive for people to run LFR.

No, there doesn't need to be an incentive. There needs to be an incentive for people to LEAVE LFR and move onto new content, staying on easy mode forever isn't something that should be pushed.

[Apexis]

Highmaul normal loot is datamined to be 655, so given 15 ilvl difference that puts LFR into 640.

That is 10 item level higher than H dungeon and same as crafted stuff, and it appears too big of a upgrade compared to heroic dungeon loot contrary to what they have said initially?

This song and dance is getting very old now, they have done everything short of removing the LFR. They even removed the tier so the normal and above progression player would no longer find the LFR appealing. Besides the afk and standing around numb nuts, these people in heroic raid gear and even some that just had nothing better to do caused more issues in the LFR, which all it did is help to make the LFR toxic cesspool it turned out to be. Now you can stand a bit higher ilvl to start with, even with the armor buffs that are coming from crafting profession that give the gear a 10 point boost, you and many like you far and exceed any sort of ilvl and LFR person will be able to obtain.

It is time for you to let it all go, you get the special gear and trinket and even nicer looking gear than the LFR, you will be very bit of the very special snowflake you feel entitled to be. Seriously your not getting cheat out of gear or something, stop whining about ilvl. People like you set out to make the LFR crap, you exceed now move on to your next intended target, so Blizzard can make that worthless as well.

[Tharkkun]

No, there doesn't need to be an incentive. There needs to be an incentive for people to LEAVE LFR and move onto new content, staying on easy mode forever isn't something that should be pushed.

Then recruit them into your guild, gear them, teach them and pander them until they become good players. In most cases they will never improve. Or let them continue playing in LFR and enjoy the game which they are paying for.

[Apexis]

No, there doesn't need to be an incentive. There needs to be an incentive for people to LEAVE LFR and move onto new content, staying on easy mode forever isn't something that should be pushed.

Why? Why does there have to be anything more incentive than what people enjoy doing. Not everyone that plays this game inspires to be a raider in this game, nor should they forced be or do. That is like saying that someone that only enjoy doing PVE raid content, should be forced to PVP as well or vice versa.

If someone just does not care for all the things that come with raiding; which some of those things are yelling, screaming, whining, not being on time, having to spend hours searching for one or two people because someone could not make it or chose not too, bitching who should have the gear and the endless name calling and blaming that goes on as to who's fault it was for the last wipe only after 20-30 minutes later you are all right back to the point where the boss is still standing and you got like 30 or 45 more minutes of raid time because someone took their time and decided to jerk around.

Seriously, I been through all this and more and I am more than sure I forgot a few things to add to the list, these things are what took place in Cata for me. I raiding in Wrath with a guild I started with in BC and the people never acted like this, if they did they were long gone. Cata was the end of raiding for me, until the LFR (which is nothing more than a dungeon wrapped in raid boss atmosphere). Now on average I have to wait for like 30 to 45 mins to get in and maybe have to deal with a few people standing around or be afk and then have an occasional raider whining and bash people for be bad.

I find that part so assuming because the LFR is for people from the people that never raided before up to the person like me that just does not no longer want to play the whole song and dance that seem to come with raiding. Sure there are many groups that don't do much of what I first explained in their guild, but I have had enough bad that I would just rather zoom through some content and move on with my life. I don't consider it easy mode either because you still have to deal with idiots of all kinds in the LFR. What I do find it to be is, I really don't have to engage another person, if i chose not too. Which in turns helps me to maintain my sanity more than anything else.

When I get in a decent LFR group of like minded people, it is truly a wonderful experience and very much a joy to complete. I do not have to here all the damn noise in vent, people whining and crying about this and that, It is so peaceful and takes me back to when I first started raiding way back when.

My incentive, is to have peace of mind to retain my sanity and every bit of it I can. if i have to deal with couple numb nuts per run in the LFR, so be it because it is much better than the alternative. That is what I think of your incentive.

[Coryam]

There needs to be some incentive for people to run LFR.

No. There absolutely does not. Edit: Aside from seeing content. Blizzard has stated that they want LFR to be like a guided tour mode, and nothing more --> Sentiments I strongly agree with.

LFR is the absolute bane of my wow play time. If there is any way to avoid it, I will. Those who want to avoid it, like me, should be given a way to progress straight from heroics to normal raiding. If this is the case, and we can progress from 630 ilvl to 655, then great! No probs here. If I have to run LFR to get into normal raiding, I'm telling you right now, I would consider skipping this xpac and every subsequent until LFR is absolutely skippable.

Point: LFR is the absolute worst.

[Anzaman]

When I get in a decent LFR group of like mind people, it is truly a wonderful experience and very much a joy to complete. I do not have to here all the damn noise in vent, people whining and crying about this and that, It is so peaceful and takes me back to when I first started raiding way back when.

I believe you'd find more "like minded people" if players wouldn't feel forced to go to LFR.