Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Vanderhuge]

Why does time move forwards and not backwards?

If only there was some kind of time travel mechanic in WoD...

[anaxie]

If only there was some kind of time travel mechanic in WoD...

Plottwist Alternate timeline Anaxie is a Shadow Priest

[Deleted]

Why does time move forwards and not backwards?

It doesn't move anywhere, you do.

[Ryuji]

I've been fiddling around with DP and SW differently on fights to see what potentially can perform better and I was curious as to what you guys normally sport on a fight. Say, Garrosh. I've seen people favor DP for phase 1 to get it over with asap as well as deal with adds later on but at the same time I've seen some favor SW to just try and nuke Garrosh down asap and as much as possible.

What talent(SW or SP) do you find yourself using on the bosses in SoO? Just wondering.

[Deleted]

I've been fiddling around with DP and SW differently on fights to see what potentially can perform better and I was curious as to what you guys normally sport on a fight. Say, Garrosh. I've seen people favor DP for phase 1 to get it over with asap as well as deal with adds later on but at the same time I've seen some favor SW to just try and nuke Garrosh down asap and as much as possible.

What talent(SW or SP) do you find yourself using on the bosses in SoO? Just wondering.

Not sure how DP would get phase 1 over quickly. To do that you want maximum single target dps and let the adds die to incidental cleave/iron star; that means you should be using SW.

[Ryuji]

Not sure how DP would get phase 1 over quickly. To do that you want maximum single target dps and let the adds die to incidental cleave/iron star; that means you should be using SW.

Is what they(the Rets I talked to) tell me. Maybe it's the RNG Divine Storm spam with T16 4 piece and DP that makes it feel nice to use it on P1 Garrosh or something. Idunno. I've been trying both, feels about the same, though SW feels like I do a bit more overall in the fight. Admittedly I like it when DP+T16 chain procs up to 10+ times sometimes. I'll give SW a shot again next go-round.

[Deleted]

Is what they(the Rets I talked to) tell me. Maybe it's the RNG Divine Storm spam with T16 4 piece and DP that makes it feel nice to use it on P1 Garrosh or something.

No, they just want to cheese damage by cleaving the adds and let other people push the damage on Garrosh.

[Deleted]

What talent(SW or SP) do you find yourself using on the bosses in SoO? Just wondering.

Immerseus: DP
Protectors: DP
Norushen: SW
Sha of Pride: SW
Galakras: DP
Iron Juggernaut: SW
Dark Shaman: DP (we stack them up, I'd use SW if we didn't)
Nazgrim: SW
Malkorok: SW
Spoils: DP
Thok: SW
Blackfuse: DP (if I was on belt I'd go SW)
Klaxxi Paragons: SW
Garrosh: SW

[Wickedsage]

No, they just want to cheese damage by cleaving the adds and let other people push the damage on Garrosh.

ya honestly i never really liked DP for garrosh when you get good procs for it..it's nice but i rather have my SW.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

*snip*

Immerseus: DP
Protectors: DP
Norushen: DP - my guild sends in 15 people on pull now so when we come out there's tons of adds to cleave on, when adds die their max health is dealt as damage to the boss- helps a lot.
Sha of Pride: DP
Galakras: DP
Iron Juggernaut: SW
Dark Shaman: DP - we don't split the bosses until like 65% or so.
Nazgrim: SW
Malkorok: SW
Spoils: DP
Thok: SW
Blackfuse: DP- even if I go on belt, SW duration is hugely wasted anyways if you don't need the damage)
Klaxxi Paragons: SW
Garrosh: DP- you can decide to not use your DP procs on padding adds in P1, DP is very strong for first room and MC adds later on. Also helps with cleaving weapons down. If you pad (regardless of talent) you're a tool if your raid is struggling.

I should say-this is what I do after 8+ months on farm, progress is different- closer to what Zardox said.

[Rathimis]

I've been jerking around with a full weak aura replacement/clclret tuneup for clcret for several weeks now.. and I started to notice that casting Exo at 4 HoPo most of time was screwing me and pushing back a CS. So changed simc to prioritize TV4 over Exo, and after the results changed clcret to do the same...

I noticed a whopping 129.9 DPS gain with ilvl 587. With a high end DPS gain of 2100 dps and a low end dps loss of -2714 dps. Still the median DPS is higher. I have SS if u really wanna make me be not lazy.

clcret string before:
inq ds_4t16_5hp tv5 tvdp_2s how ds_4t16_aw tvaw cs j ds_4t16 exo hpr tvdp tv3
inq ds_4t16_5hp tv5 tvdp_2s how ds_4t16_aw tvaw cs j ds_4t16 tv4 exo hpr tvdp tv3

(your version of clcret may or may not recognize all of the arguments, I had taken the clcinfo arguments and put them into clcret at sometime, and not sure whats going on with that currently)

And it just feels so much better not getting CS pushed back by stupid ass Exo. That was really bothering me for some reason, like I screwed up the rotation. Unfortuantely, still sticking with part of clcret, now that its adjusted... also clash for both HoW and CS at 0.2 seems to give the best readings on dummies since my last check at 0.25. We'll see how this does in raid now, clcret was all kinds of jacked up before.

[anaxie]

Is what they(the Rets I talked to) tell me. Maybe it's the RNG Divine Storm spam with T16 4 piece and DP that makes it feel nice to use it on P1 Garrosh or something. Idunno. I've been trying both, feels about the same, though SW feels like I do a bit more overall in the fight. Admittedly I like it when DP+T16 chain procs up to 10+ times sometimes. I'll give SW a shot again next go-round.

The rets you talked to are stupid simply put.

- - - Updated - - -

Immerseus: DP
Protectors: DP
Norushen: SW
Sha of Pride: SW
Galakras: DP
Iron Juggernaut: SW
Dark Shaman: DP (we stack them up, I'd use SW if we didn't)
Nazgrim: SW
Malkorok: SW
Spoils: DP
Thok: SW
Blackfuse: DP (if I was on belt I'd go SW)
Klaxxi Paragons: SW
Garrosh: SW

Perfect call Zardox

[Ryuji]

No, they just want to cheese damage by cleaving the adds and let other people push the damage on Garrosh.

The rets you talked to are stupid simply put.

Hah. Good to know, thanks. :P Will only use SW on Garrosh from now on.

[Deleted]

I've been jerking around with a full weak aura replacement/clclret tuneup for clcret for several weeks now.. and I started to notice that casting Exo at 4 HoPo most of time was screwing me and pushing back a CS. So changed simc to prioritize TV4 over Exo, and after the results changed clcret to do the same...

Might be short lived with the change to 2-set when the next patch comes out.

[Burgerberg]

Immerseus: DP
Protectors: DP
Norushen: DP - my guild sends in 15 people on pull now so when we come out there's tons of adds to cleave on, when adds die their max health is dealt as damage to the boss- helps a lot.
Sha of Pride: DP
Galakras: DP
Iron Juggernaut: SW
Dark Shaman: DP - we don't split the bosses until like 65% or so.
Nazgrim: SW
Malkorok: SW
Spoils: DP
Thok: SW
Blackfuse: DP- even if I go on belt, SW duration is hugely wasted anyways if you don't need the damage)
Klaxxi Paragons: SW
Garrosh: DP- you can decide to not use your DP procs on padding adds in P1, DP is very strong for first room and MC adds later on. Also helps with cleaving weapons down. If you pad (regardless of talent) you're a tool if your raid is struggling.

I should say-this is what I do after 8+ months on farm, progress is different- closer to what Zardox said.

Why are you using DP on Sha when the adds die relatively quickly and the majority of the fight is single target anyway? And Garrosh, again, same thing.

[Relimash]

Why are you using DP on Sha when the adds die relatively quickly and the majority of the fight is single target anyway? And Garrosh, again, same thing.

Cause big numbers make us wana play wow. I used to use DP for sha too tho, pad citay

[Meiffert]

DP is very strong for first room and MC adds later on... If you pad (regardless of talent) you're a tool if your raid is struggling.

Are you assigned as the only person who is allowed to break MC? I wonder about this every time you mention it. In our group it is usually DS -> HP generator -> wanted to DS, but no point since MC are broken, so back to single target rotation.

DP = padding on almost any fight. You might make a point for Protectors and Shamans depending on your strategy and that's pretty much it. On all other fights single target dps on importatnt targets is more relevant when you care about killing the boss rather than dps on recount.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Cause big numbers make us wana play wow. I used to use DP for sha too tho, pad citay

*edit* thought I saw Norushen, anyways... My guild makes people run close to Sha before the labyrinth banishment is cast which allows all aoes to hit clumps of banished people and the boss at the same time, something that stuck since progress.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you assigned as the only person who is allowed to break MC? I wonder about this every time you mention it. In our group it is usually DS -> HP generator -> wanted to DS, but no point since MC are broken, so back to single target rotation.

DP = padding on almost any fight. You might make a point for Protectors and Shamans depending on your strategy and that's pretty much it. On all other fights single target dps on importatnt targets is more relevant when you care about killing the boss rather than dps on recount.

We don't do single person padding strats in our guild, never have and never will.
DP on Blackfuse depends on how much time you actually spend on the belt, our runs we never go longer than ~10 seconds on the belts roughly. Having 30s of SW in my situation means that 5-10seconds of SW is wasted in moving back and forth from belt (not that I need to use CDs on belt anymore), anyways DP is a lot better for dealing with the mines. Like I said, it's what I use on farm atm. Even for Garrosh DP is perfectly usable, no I don't use DP procs for DS in P1 to pad on orcs- it's pointless. Later on when you have room phase(s), weapons, MC DP is extremely good. Other ret in our raids stick with SW, he does marginally more damage on Garrosh than I do- I crush him on every single add and summon (ignoring P1 orcs because they're irrelevant)
For Garrosh MCs I look at the timer- save any procs I might have- build HoPo to 5 and throw out 2-3DS depending on phase and so on, most of the time I get 3 out.

DP isn't a padding tool, if you chose to play with your brain and not your dick then you can do perfectly well with DP...

[Meiffert]

DP on Blackfuse depends on how much time you actually spend on the belt, our runs we never go longer than ~10 seconds on the belts roughly.

Well, doesn't that mean that you send way too many people there? Why don't you just use cooldowns on the boss since belt weapon dies so fast?
I don't really know, I don't even go on belt, we send classes that can go to every belt, so that others don't waste time running from boss and back. Obviously it might not be possible for you depending on your group setup.

Even for Garrosh DP is perfectly usable, no I don't use DP procs for DS in P1 to pad on orcs- it's pointless. Later on when you have room phase(s), weapons, MC DP is extremely good. Other ret in our raids stick with SW, he does marginally more damage on Garrosh than I do- I crush him on every single add and summon (ignoring P1 orcs because they're irrelevant)
DP isn't a padding tool, if you chose to play with your brain and not your dick then you can do perfectly well with DP...

Well, this is your damage on Garrosh from this week:
Garrosh: 183m (84.4 %)
P1 Orcs: 16m (7.3 %)
Em. Doubt: 5m (2.4 %)

Mine from this week:
Garrosh: 202m (92 %)
P1 Orcs: 7m (3.3 %)
Em Doubt: 9m (4.1 %)

Obviously this might not represent the average situation, but stuff such as breaking MC is almost irrelevant. The truth is, paladins have strong defensive utility, but our dps is on the weaker side. Speccing into slightly higher (and RNG on top of that) cleave is not going to make the difference. Everybody in your raid pretty much uses 1 global of AoE/cleave ability and MCs are broken.

Even on fights such as Galakras there is no point for it. I very much doubt that AoE damage in phase one is where any guilds struggle. If you had the damage to kill the previous bosses, you will have downtime between add waves on Galakras. Now increasing this downtime by 1 second won't help you kill the boss, focusing down the shamans, bonecrushers, minibosses and most importantly Galakras himself in last phase might.

I believe same argument can be made for almost any boss. You might do more dps for ranks with DP, but you will help your guild more when playing with SW. As I already mentioned, Protectors and Shamans are the 2 fights where depending on your tactic, you might be able to cleave _relevant_ targets for the majority of the fight making DP possibly better.

You mentioned that you enjoy playing with DP more and that's fine. The raid is on farm for months, it's not like having a different talent will make a difference in your ability to clear the place. By all means play what you enjoy, but when someone comes to this thread asking about which talent to use, I will not recommend a talent based on which playstyle I personally prefer, but based on which one I believe will help them kill the boss.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Which is why I said that's what I go for on farm, I also said what the poster above me is correct (or closer to correct depending on strategies)...