[Holy] WoD Alpha/Beta Info & Discussion

[Perkunas]

We get it Holy Radiance is an abomination that killed your whole family! Seriously your HR hate you have spewed the last few pages is getting beyond ridiculous. I hated DS HR spam as well but damn calm down.

DS HR spam is very different from MoP "HR spam". In DS HR was flat out spammed because it healed for a ton. In MoP, HR is filler between HS(and judgment in the case of Selfless Healer) to get holy power. So now in WoD we go from HS-HR-HR-EF to HS-HL-HL-EF, that isn't more engaging at all(and not that much different really). HR isn't worth using in WoD because it is terrible. It needs to be buffed so that it is good for AoE situations so we actually have a choice and get rewarded for using it effectively. PVE isn't PVP so don't expect it to be.

Just because we want HR to be effective does not mean we want to spam it and completely ignore HL and FoL. We want a balance.

It killed my father and now it will prepare to die. Anyway, I'm advocating for a healing style that's more akin to pre-4.3.

[axelsixtree]

I was a big fan of the old holy radiance pré 4.3, large radius, good healing while moving, speed boost while activated, (30 seconds cooldown? can't remember exactly)

It was removed because if i remember well ghostcrawler stated that paladins were the only healing class that didn't have on demand aoe and didn't matched with others healing classes toolkit

Considering this and the will of blizzard to help input lag by reducing the whole lot of little fast healing ticks everywhere with more compact and less frequent heals, we probably won't see the original one coming back even if i'd love to see that.

I remember the first time i saw the then brand new holy radiance on a paragon video (ptr): "OMG i wan't that"

youtube.com/watch?v=lo5uIHdatfw

In draenor (at least at the start) we simply won't be able to use holy radiance frequently anyway, not much differences beetween a spell with 30 seconds cooldown + good healing, and a spell that is so costly and heals so little that we can't afford to use it.

Maybe if they could implement haste sinergy on old holy radiance to reduce cooldown like they did with holy shock, along with instant génération of 3 holy power when activated...

by the way selfless healer was buffed in the last build: 35% healing bonus (up from 20 %) per stack... But can't tell for sure if this is for holy or protection paladins

[MCC]

by the way selfless healer was buffed in the last build: 35% healing bonus (up from 20 %) per stack... But can't tell for sure if this is for holy or protection paladins

Lipstick on a pig, etc. Even at 35% per stack, it's a waste of time to cast as long as no holy power is generated in the process.

[paladative]

Mutli is basically just crit, but we don't have IoL from it, and Vesatility is balanced around all 3 aspects, so for specs like Holy who don't need the damage, and don't really need the toughness, its pretty crappy.

reducing personal damage taking should always be good. What about the increase absorption part?

[auswa100]

Issues on Glyph of Illumination must be sorted out asap, I can use it on my copied character but there is no such glyph while playing on pvp server.

Glyph of Illumination has been removed, hence why it is no longer available on premades.

[Blash]

reducing personal damage taking should always be good. What about the increase absorption part?

The issue with versatility is its high cost for 1% vs other stats. You need 130 versatility for 1% more healing but you need only 110 crit (a bit less with holy crit bonus), 100 haste, etc. for 1% in these stats.

About the absorption, Illuminated Healing scale off the initial healed amount, which is obviously improved by versatility.

[JanthuSC]

That video brought back memories. I honestly had forgotten that Holy Radiance required you to move around and sped you up, but I fondly recall the Light of Dawn being cone healing.

Majordomo was such a good Paladin fight because if you could play it right you could use your skill heals Light of Dawn and Holy Radiance to great effect.

Unfortunately the game just turned into rotation AOE healing spam fest. Sounds like I am glad I took a break during Dragon Soul and early Mists. I wish there was more skill in our play.

[paladative]

About the absorption, Illuminated Healing scale off the initial healed amount, which is obviously improved by versatility.

this is from blue: 1% Versatility grants a 1% increase to your damage, healing, and absorbs

For example, if I have 30% mastery, and 10% versatility. My HL heals for Y originally, I will get 1.1X0.3Y IH, or I will get 1.1X1.1X0.3Y?

[Keiyra]

this is from blue: 1% Versatility grants a 1% increase to your damage, healing, and absorbs

For example, if I have 30% mastery, and 10% versatility. My HL heals for Y originally, I will get 1.1X0.3Y IH, or I will get 1.1X1.1X0.3Y?

It never double dips: you'd get 1.1 Y in healing, and then 0.3 of that as IH.
Just like it does not double dip for atonement, nor for fistweaving.

The reason it lists absorb separately is to clarify that versatility increases abilities that are absorbs only (like PW: Shield, Shield Barrier, etc)

[MCC]

Looks like the first beta build with healer balance changes is in.

HL, HS and FoL heal for more.
FoL is slightly cheaper, HS is more expensive.
EF HoT has been nerfed TO THE GROUND. Did it piss into cranky devs' morning cornflakes or something?

EF is still off cooldown (good), CS still generates 1 holy power despite what MMOC patch notes say (good but probably won't last).

Side note: bigger, cheaper FoL heals means it's even harder to justify casting HR.

[Deleted]

Looks like the first beta build with healer balance changes is in.

HL, HS and FoL heal for more.
FoL is slightly cheaper, HS is more expensive.
EF HoT has been nerfed TO THE GROUND. Did it piss into a cranky dev's morning cornflakes or something?

1 + 16.03% (10%, new value)

To the ground? What's the average spell power for a 660 Holy Paladin?

[JanthuSC]

Looks like the first beta build with healer balance changes is in.

HL, HS and FoL heal for more.
FoL is slightly cheaper, HS is more expensive.
EF HoT has been nerfed TO THE GROUND. Did it piss into cranky devs' morning cornflakes or something?

EF is still off cooldown (good), CS still generates 1 holy power despite what MMOC patch notes say (good but probably won't last).

Side note: bigger, cheaper FoL heals means it's even harder to justify casting HR.

Eternal Flame was due for a change because it was too overpowered. Even with the change it is still the most efficient finisher due to total healing despite the cut by 38% on the HoT portion. I still doubt it will change many from taking Eternal Flame at this talent level.

If Crusader Strike stops providing HP I don't know if it really matters since you are pretty much constantly healing anyways and won't have time or the mobility to stay in melee range.

There will be more tuning coming because they have not addressed the level 100 talent tier which is clearly needed.

[MCC]

To the ground? What's the average spell power for a 660 Holy Paladin?

Doesn't matter. 16% SP to 10% SP is a whopping 37.5% reduction of healing. Hence the snark.

[Deleted]

Doesn't matter. 16% SP to 10% SP is a whopping 37.5% reduction of healing. Hence the snark.

True enough. It may not of occurred to me how many ticks you actually get from EF at the time.

[MCC]

Eternal Flame was due for a change because it was too overpowered. Even with the change it is still the most efficient finisher due to total healing despite the cut by 38% on the HoT portion. I still doubt it will change many from taking Eternal Flame at this talent level.

Disagreed on the "OP" part, agreed that it was a nerf candidate (for other reasons).

If Crusader Strike stops providing HP I don't know if it really matters since you are pretty much constantly healing anyways and won't have time or the mobility to stay in melee range.

I don't know about you, but I found that I have both the time and mobility to use it on approximately 50% of all fights. So yeah, it does matter to me. YMMV.

There will be more tuning coming because they have not addressed the level 100 talent tier which is clearly needed.

They did, actually. Sort of. There's a lipstick-on-a-pig change to Beacon of Insight in the patch notes.

[Pasture]

They did, actually. Sort of. There's a lipstick-on-a-pig change to Beacon of Insight in the patch notes.

I had wondered whether this was a way to buff HR if the increased heal to the main target resulted in increased healing to everyone else from HR. I suspect it's not the case but it could have been an attempt to make the talent competitive in a clumped AoE situation.

[Tiberria]

Looks like the first beta build with healer balance changes is in.

HL, HS and FoL heal for more.
FoL is slightly cheaper, HS is more expensive.
EF HoT has been nerfed TO THE GROUND. Did it piss into cranky devs' morning cornflakes or something?

EF is still off cooldown (good), CS still generates 1 holy power despite what MMOC patch notes say (good but probably won't last).

Side note: bigger, cheaper FoL heals means it's even harder to justify casting HR.

All they are doing is responding to complaints that the L45 talent tier has only one viable talent. They are moving healing out of EF and into HS/HL/FoL, to make the talent row more of a choice.

[MCC]

I had wondered whether this was a way to buff HR if the increased heal to the main target resulted in increased healing to everyone else from HR. I suspect it's not the case but it could have been an attempt to make the talent competitive in a clumped AoE situation.

I am pretty sure this is not the case, but I haven't tested it. Once my beta realm stops dropping dead, I could test this easily.

- - - Updated - - -

I am pretty sure this is not the case, but I haven't tested it. Once my beta realm stops dropping dead, I could test this easily.

Just tested it. It does increase splash healing of HR.

Still nowhere near enough for us to give up Beacon of Faith, naturally.

[Pasture]

Just tested it. It does increase splash healing of HR.

Still nowhere near enough for us to give up Beacon of Faith, naturally.

I suppose it depends on the fight and mana constraints.

If you're casting lots of HR you don't need to macro beacon of faith for the HP generation. In a stacked fight with a single tank 30% extra AoE healing could probably tip the scales. It seems situational but I think there'll be instances when it can win out.

[MCC]

I suppose it depends on the fight and mana constraints.

If you're casting lots of HR you don't need to macro beacon of faith for the HP generation. In a stacked fight with a single tank 30% extra AoE healing could probably tip the scales. It seems situational but I think there'll be instances when it can win out.

That's possible I suppose. BoI is smart ("most injured ally"), so that's good for the direct heal part of HR. Unfortunately, it can also jump away from the group. Imagine the entire raid stacked away from the boss. Who is most likely to receive BoI in an AoE situation? Probably the tank. So you would have to cast something on the tank to bounce BoI back to the raid, which wastes time (more so if you use HL instead of HS) and reduces this talent's benefits.

Another thing that makes BoI difficult to use is that HR is not an instant spell. You cannot queue the next HR because you would have to wait and see who BoI is going to jump to. That prevents chain-casting, which is probably not a good thing.