Are warlocks heading towards dark times in WoD?

[PickleballAce]

i think warlocks will be relatively secure towards the upper echelon's of the DPS classes in WoD.

This will probably be true. But will we be fun to play?

[Bullettime]

i think warlocks will be relatively secure towards the upper echelon's of the DPS classes in WoD.

Again, DPS doesn't mean anything when the mechanics simply aren't fun. Dot snapshotting and what not were absurdly good but removing the only layer of complexity for Affliction, gutting Destruction's mobility to where it feels like shit to play on beta with so much twitch movement and movement phases, and adding more layers of cooldown stacking to Demo don't do much but suck a lot of the fun out.

[Jessicka]

I think roughly one third of this thread is some randomer wandering in, declaring that our DPS will be fine without having read a single post in the thread. Thus completely missing the point.

[Brusalk]

I think roughly one third of this thread is some randomer wandering in, declaring that our DPS will be fine without having read a single post in the thread. Thus completely missing the point.

Sure seems like it.

Doesn't help that we spend 1-2 pages explaining the ways that they were incorrect only to never really see the person respond again.

[Bullettime]

Sure seems like it.

Doesn't help that we spend 1-2 pages explaining the ways that they were incorrect only to never really see the person respond again.

When we have active discussion, it ends up on the MMO homepage. People click, voice their opinion without any regard to ongoing discussion, then vanish.

This happens to every class.

[Brusalk]

When we have active discussion, it ends up on the MMO homepage. People click, voice their opinion without any regard to ongoing discussion, then vanish.

This happens to every class.

Obviously the solution is to not not have an active discussion. :P

[nocturnus]

I'm wondering though, if on live, warlocks are OP, what does that make fury warriors?

Or do you mean that warlocks are OP in specific circumstances only?

[Fenzha]

Some encounters warlocks are extremely OP, the rest of the time id say warlocks are slightly higher then everyone else and alot of the talk that comes in is quite exaggerated because of the specific encounters that we can do extremely well.

[evertonbelmontt]

Mark my words:

We will suck so hard in PVP that it will be gross.
I've seen it. THE HORROR.

They need to fix ranged for pvp. And warlocks suffer the most post WoD in PVP.

[merli]

Mannoroth's Fury:

I've since changed my stance on this as well - this talent really isn't a bonus. Like you said on the EU forums, this just serves to push down the baseline damage, effectively making it appear as a nerf to power output when you don't have it, as opposed to appearing as a buff when you do have it.

Didn't Blizzard nerf the range for Rain of Fire because the passive Mannoroth's Fury made it huge? Later they nerfed Mannoroth's Fury for no reason. I still don't get it why they made it an active spell when they want less buttons to press. Or did Blizzard say why they changed it and I just didn't see it?

[Deleted]

It's fine for me if locks don't top the meters in WoD but it sure looks like the class is stripped of fun and anything interesting , and again dumbed down with disappearing abilities for the unique purpose of making it easier for Blizzard's devs and their many never-fixed-bugs, and being a raid nuisance during movement phases.

Not everybody will agree but I'd prefer an underperforming but fun and moveable class to satisfy the many gamers that want Locks punished for MoP, rather than an unfun class topping the dps meters.

In PVP it'll probably be even worse. Ranged will get destroyed. Locks were already only useful in a few 3v3 compositions or for facelol retarded I'm-topping-the-dps-meters-in-BG-with-SS-but-not-useful-in-the-least-to-my-team, with the many nerfs it's hard to see any comp where locks will bring anything remotely useful.

I haven't looked at all the classes but it seems the hunter's class will also be disfigured if not beheaded, especially MM.

[luckydevours]

Mannoroth's Fury:

Didn't Blizzard nerf the range for Rain of Fire because the passive Mannoroth's Fury made it huge? Later they nerfed Mannoroth's Fury for no reason. I still don't get it why they made it an active spell when they want less buttons to press. Or did Blizzard say why they changed it and I just didn't see it?

They nerfed the radius of Seed of Corruption from 15 to 10 yards, the radius from Fire and Brimstone from 15 to 10 yards and the damage of Hellfire and Immolation Aura several times because of Mannoroth's Fury. So yeah, fuck that talent!!

[Baconeggcheese]

I think roughly one third of this thread is some randomer wandering in, declaring that our DPS will be fine without having read a single post in the thread. Thus completely missing the point.

That's pretty much every thread on every forum.

I can't tell you how many times people just regurgitated the same crap argument completely uninformed and not realizing that it was already completely dismantled earlier in the thread when I was talking with a few people about the possibility of draenei warlocks.

You literally gotta ignore those randoms who just pop in make 1 post without even attempting to understand what point the conversation is at if you ever wanna get anywhere with a convo.

[Teddybearavenger]

Only affliction. It isn't fun, it's boring, needs overhaul change. Demonology is fun. Destruction is grossly overpowered for pvp.

[Jessicka]

They nerfed the radius of Seed of Corruption from 15 to 10 yards, the radius from Fire and Brimstone from 15 to 10 yards and the damage of Hellfire and Immolation Aura several times because of Mannoroth's Fury. So yeah, fuck that talent!!

They nerfed it all down to 10 yards because every other AE in the game is 10yards or even just 8, ours being 15 was some kind of weird oversight, but under most circumstances makes zero difference because of how stuff is tanked.

[Irian]

I've been playing my warlock extensively in PvP and PvE on beta - as well as other classes - and honestly...I really have to say, fundamentally warlocks are just going to be in a god awful place next expansion.

I don't mean the numbers. Numbers don't mean shit. Numbers can be fine-tuned, the worst class rotationally can pull tons of dps (and this has been the case in the past, remember enhancement shamans using caster weapons?)
It's not just an "every class" thing, warlocks in particular feel gutted. By comparison, we went from one of the most key-abundant classes to one of the more barren. I can comfortably fit all of my spells and my PvE macros onto my bars with just `-= and Q-[ keys, and that is deeply troubling. I didn't recognize my eight-year main in MoP, but I went with it and rolled with the punches and I ended up enjoying it. This time around, it's like I'm looking at half of the MoP remake and they forgot to put in my other 5+ spells and just called it a day anyway.

Affliction without DoT snapshotting isn't affliction. It's even more idiot-friendly than destruction is now. I frankly hated what MoP did to affliction and have no idea why they had to screw with what wasn't in any way broken, but this is just terrible design. We need something to actually give the class some flavor because as it is, I could fall asleep playing affliction as I watch an abundance of 3-4k crits pop up on my screen lazily as I maintain DoTs and spam my channeled filler.

Destruction is the new Arcane Mage of PvE. There are still nuances, but sitting there being a flame-spewing turret with next to no mobility and a PvE rotation that consists of a whopping 4-5 buttons is absolutely frustrating for someone who loved this class because of its complexity.

Demonology is still possibly the worst-designed remake, but at least it isn't idiot-proofed. The demonic fury design is terrible but at least it hasn't really changed a whole lot from a surface PoV from the way it is in MoP. I pray to the blizzard gods that Demonology is top for raiding; if not, I may just play it anyway because otherwise I'm going to end up despising this half-assed class and rerolling to something that doesn't get gutted and remade every expansion.

[fguru482]

As they dumb down each class more and more its more likely that the game is headed towards dark times rather then just one class

People like me have skill capped certain classes. For them to take away some of that challenge is going to make me fall asleep on mu keyboard.

To me half the game is your own personal skill level and the other half is downing content. Are they trying to weed us out and go free to play.

[Lucidious]

For PVP affliction will still be fine and have R1 viable comps but will be more idiot proof to play for beginners. Destro will be basically the same as it is now as long as the burst is comparable with the exception of missing Fel flame "which is huge actually". Demo could actually work but having shadow bolt have the same cast time as chaos bolt but with half the damage makes the spec useless in caster form. A 2 second base cast would fix that but they have no plans for such a thing. Leads me to believe they haven't tested Demo much in a pvp setting.

All in all losing Fel flame seems to be the main problem for lock pvp in general it seems. Well from my observation at least. So dark days could be a real thing. From a pvp perspective that is.

[Tya]

For PVP affliction will still be fine and have R1 viable comps but will be more idiot proof to play for beginners. Destro will be basically the same as it is now as long as the burst is comparable with the exception of missing Fel flame "which is huge actually". Demo could actually work but having shadow bolt have the same cast time as chaos bolt but with half the damage makes the spec useless in caster form. A 2 second base cast would fix that but they have no plans for such a thing. Leads me to believe they haven't tested Demo much in a pvp setting.

All in all losing Fel flame seems to be the main problem for lock pvp in general it seems. Well from my observation at least. So dark days could be a real thing. From a pvp perspective that is.

I will be very sad if Blizzard balance PvP around little arena boxes. And I say that as a multiple gladiator warlock.

Destro is totally immobile. Aff has no sustainability without a pet healer. Demo suffers from the same fate as aff, plus the added burden of having a melee pet that moves painfully slow and has less utility than a felhunter.

[Deleted]

I would like it, if people got away from "I miss Felflame, plz give it back" and the "Dmg will be fine" posts.

OK FF gone sucks hard, for affli and destro, but try to get around with it, they wont change it. See it as blizzard are the parents, we are the kids. They seem to have a reason they cut that from us, now we cry allot but it will not change. So get along with it as best as you can.

I found demo quite nice, a bit of personal skill was cuttet but not so hard as on affli or even destro. I always played WL because it was a bit harder to master it out, more buttons to press, more actions to calculate to get good results. They take that away and I really don't like it. But I have a nice raiding guild and will stay WL even so.

Maybe we should start getting more construktive Feedback on the Specs, whats wrong there, why some feel bland or boring and how to fix it... WITHOUT FF!!! ..

90% off all those posts contain. "and all this could be fixed with giving us FF back". They don't even read that any more I think. Try to imagine other things instead. Some interesting Proc for Affli or key mechanic as like with Destro to. (like instant Fireballs/Frostmageprocs for Immolate etc pp?)

Give them well explained feedback. Some of you tried, but the post were desolatet from both blizzard and the WL community. I myself postet quite a few thinks that grudged me about beta WL.

So stop whining and working everybody alone, try to work together, be reasonable.

Brusalk at least got heared with his Feedback, which was nice to read.

I would like to see a rather hard/complex Affli or Demo spec that gives a bit abouve average dmg when mastered, than any brainless OP Superspec I could play while sleeping one eye open and solving differential equations on my 2nd screen.

PS: sorry for my engl.