This right here is the problem with the WoW Playerbase

[Tharkkun]

Nice strawman. No one is claiming that the entire game should only have a 'win' option. People are saying that the current garrison model and plot allotment only provides the illusion of choice (which Blizz has been against in the past). It was much better before they nerfed the amount of plots we get.

It's no different than tradeskills. You have to make the decision on which 2 primary tradeskills you want per character. The same goes for your garrison.

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Rather have a kid be told he lost than "Oh you won but last, here is a trophy"..........there are winners and there are losers...........welcome to the world.

That's when they cut your throat in your sleep.

[Seefer]

It's no different than tradeskills. You have to make the decision on which 2 primary tradeskills you want per character. The same goes for your garrison.

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That's when they cut your throat in your sleep.

Never cut my moms throat, none of my friends did either, it's called learning respect and understanding the world has people who are better than you in it and you are better than others as well.

[Seefer]

I get that, it's just that being a hardass about it in MMOs is silly.

It's like getting mad at your kid for not realizing that he's a "loser" at drinking water or something.

In pve there are no losers really, but there are bad decisions, it is called teaching them to be the best they can and teaching them if they fail to try harder and not complain if a challenge is difficult to find a way to conquer that obstacle.

[partshark]

I think the poster you're bashing has a perfectly valid opinion. I mean lets face it, WoD will be the the worst expansion ever when it comes to new features. No new classes, races, redesigns of the talent tree or gameplay for most specs. The only thing we're really getting is Garrisons, so I can understand the guy's wish to get the most out of it. I don't see the point in making us choose between different things either. Make it harder to build these building but let us get them all, so we can get a really big base.

That isn't why it will be a bad expansion. It's a bad expansion because it drastically overhauls existing class mechanics in favor of simplified, boring gaming that guts identity for the sake of being easy. Garrisons are not the only thing we are getting either. Every time someone says this, I imagine their TV is set to Fox News. The least you could do is bitch about the legitimate problems with the expansion and stop regurgitating falsities so you can sound like you know what you're on about, which it's clear to anyone who knows anything about the beta, you don't.

[blackblade]

I just shook my head continuously while reading this post. Is this what the WoW community has become? People who don't want challenges, treasure hunts, difficult decisions and so on to exist, but who think they should get everything, no questions asked, no decisions to be made? Its baffling.

I hate to burst your bubble, but this behaviour has a name (see: Entitlement) and is spread wide and far outside of WoW, or even gaming in general. We live in a world where a bleeding edge smartphone that's still pristine and fully functional will get traded in for the newer more bleeding edge smartphone as soon as it's released; not out of need for a faster device or new features... no, people do it for bragging rights, proof of social standing, as a means to "compete" with his or her peers.



What the blue poster replying to above player failed to point out is that you can get everything garrisons have to offer through alts.

[Tharkkun]

I wanna see this kid play Everquest in its hay day..........good lord he would commit suicide. The cow towning was a huge problem, and thats why ALL MMORPGS lost their sense of danger, EVERQUEST had fucking DANGER, Ultima online had A LOT OF FREAKING DANGER, wow just has a time penalty which is meaningless wit all the instant porting options. GO die in EQ and do a corpse run, you dropped your entire inventory, you were NAKED WALKING back to your corpse, no ports, of course that changed too in an attempt to survive in the face of easy mode wow. EQ graphics are fine, i dont need eye candy, i want depth and DANGER, not time punishments. WOW IS GOING TO CONSOLE, look at all the dumbing down and thinning out of action bars and so called bloat, they are getting it set to play on a controller. or worse, future tablets lol...

Everquest wasn't any harder than WoW. It just double downed on the punishment for failure. The game itself was far easier than WoW but you had to deal with massive latency, disconnections, bad pathing, ridiculous aggro mechanics, etc. Wow can and is made hard in the highest difficulty. The difference is you don't get kicked in the balls and lose levels every time you die.

EQ also added the ability to summon corpses after the 1st expansion less than 2 years after the game was released. Has anybody seen my corpse? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKDkvy9sKuY

WoW removed a lot of the time sinks that were mirroring EQ's time sinks for no reason other than making things take more time.

[melodramocracy]

So do I.

While I'm comfortable that I'll be called a self-entitled whiner, I do want everything in my garrison. I don't want handed every reward, given every title and have the game played for me, but we're talking about a feature where there isn't going to be any legitimate choice felt; only loss. I don't care what anyone says, if you come up to me and say the following:

"I have an apple and an orange that I don't want - you can only have one, though, and they're both juicy and sweet!"

Well, then, you'd better fucking believe I want both. I want both because there's no reason not for me to have both. If you can give me one or the other, you can give me one AND the other. When you don't, it comes across as petty and mean. This is particularly true when it's done for no legitimate reason other than an illusion of "choice" where it simply doesn't matter.

When you can have everything, there's really no choice element anymore. That'd be a pretty dull game.

[Ytlayol]

The cultivated self-delusion of being entitled to everything the game has to offer. From a bluepost featured on MMOC this morning:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...arrison-plots/



"Because that would be cool." There is no reasoning behind this persons post, he just behaves like a kid in a store, blabbering and nagging "BUT I WANT ANOTHER TOY! MOOOMMMMYYYY!". He/She doesn't care whether or not that would make garrisons boring, meanungless buff-spewers that you have to build to completion, just like you have to level your character to 100. Bashiok gave a very good response:



Decision making is an important process in an open-world based videogame. Does the playerbase, exemplified by this specimen care? Not at all.



Again, no reasoning. No thought process of any kind. No logic. Just the delusion that we are entitled to everything, and we should get it RIGHT NOW!

I just shook my head continuously while reading this post. Is this what the WoW community has become? People who don't want challenges, treasure hunts, difficult decisions and so on to exist, but who think they should get everything, no questions asked, no decisions to be made? Its baffling.

Kinda ironic, but I see you as the type of person that is wrong with the games or with people in general.

People who attack others with a different opinion than them.
People who attack others who don't like the same things they do.
People who attack others for just being different than them.

[Pua]

You have much to learn young Jedi..

Lolz.

The apple vs orange choice is a fine metaphor for a change.... And nope, when you're given a choice of either one, you better pick one, else you might end up getting nothing at all.

That’s not how I behave. If I have several things I don’t want, I give them up to my friends and family who do. If they don’t want them, I’ll ask if their friends and family are looking for said items. After that, I deliver to charity shops (I live in Scotland) or recycle depending on the items.

I just gave two thirds of my clothes away, just to clearly illustrate the type of person I am.

But let’s not argue about the metaphor, young Jedi, that’d be pointless. Let’s stick to the point I was making about the game:

1) Blizzard can give everyone all of the garrison plots.
2) There’s no sharing of resources in the system.
3) Players won’t know what combination they want until they’re built.
4) Content can be “elongated” in other ways.
5) Content exclusion hasn’t worked out well at all to this point.
6) The “choice” offered is no more a choice than any other system.

In short, there’s no legitimate reason not to let players have all of the garrison buildings. “Choice”, if they want to promote it, could be done in many different ways rather than just restricting buildings. Instead of giving players choices, they’re actually taking them away.

But here’s the real kicker:

They’re concentrating on bonuses rather than the sheer fun of building and managing your own base, which is a mistake.

It’s a mistake because they’re designing a feature to buff other parts of the game, which removes choice for players who are only bothering with their garrison for the bonus. For those who don’t care about the bonuses, well, they’re just losing the fun of building the best base possible.

In short, nobody wins.

Someone offering you either an apple or an orange is a kind act in itself. The person won't have to defend their offer no matter what. And you aren't in any position to question the offer at all.

That's how life goes, that's how shit rolls down the hill. And the sooner you learn that lesson, the further you'll get in your life.

It’s not a kindness if they don’t want what they’re giving away. That’ll become apparent to you when you get just a little older.

See? I can make completely irrelevant judgements on your age rather than trying to engage with your point, too.

WoW is, and always was a game with heaps of choices to be made. If you pursue one direction, you'll be behind in another aspect.

Yes, but you can catch up given enough time. There are a few players out there who’ve completed every achievement in the game, thus “they’ve completed the game”. They didn’t choose to do one thing or the other, they chose to invest the time into doing everything.

Restricting buildings is just stopping people from doing something for no tangible reason.

The garrison issue is a non issue. There's only a few choices to be made, and that only applies to people that play only one toon.

I think it’s far more reasonable to allow players a bigger garrison with every available plot, than it is to tell players to slog through another character when they may not want to.

Throughout the talent system's existence there was never a choice. There was always one valid talent tree, with no side step possible whatsoever.

Rubbish. The fact you believe and even parrot the Blizzard line on this says you either played poorly designed classes, or never bothered to think about your own talent trees and just let others tell you what to do.

That’s not for me.

[Frozenbeef]

Having the ability to earn everything on one character (with effort) rather than having to use alts wouldn't be a bad thing...

[Pua]

Having the ability to earn everything on one character (with effort) rather than having to use alts wouldn't be a bad thing...

That's essentially my argument.

For example, let's say you're limited to only three small plots, two medium plots and one large plot (totally made up numbers). That's your basic limit, but you can then spend resources to expand the garrison to six small plots, four medium and two large... With the costs of building them increased by 25% as they're not on "perfect" land.

Again, resources pull you up to 12, 8 and 4... With costs increased by 50%.

I'd support that.

[Grishnaar]

With all due respect, people that post such nonsense should be ignored.

If I was Blizzard, I'd certainly ignore it (since you can't give a valid argument for such people/kids).

[Lincoln Lawyer]

The problem with the wow playerbase is people making threads stating with definitive affirmation what is wrong with the wow playerbase. You're what's wrong with the wow playerbase you arrogant bastard.

[NatePsy]

I have 60+ exalted reputations, majority were before the reputations were made a joke to farm. I know what it's like to have to earn my things. Guess what? I'd love to have more plots too. I'd love to have every single building because it'd be fun to work towards each one of them. Gives me more things to strive for among the already large amount of stuff. Just because some of us want more plots, doesn't mean we want them handed to us on a silver platter. No, some of us just want more to work towards, a bigger base with all the exciting buildings available at hand.

[Seefer]

Kinda ironic, but I see you as the type of person that is wrong with the games or with people in general.

People who attack others with a different opinion than them.
People who attack others who don't like the same things they do.
People who attack others for just being different than them.

That is pretty much the entirety of these forums, you make it sound like the type of person OP is talking about don't attack people who actually want challenge in the game........I don't suppose the terms "Special snowflake" or "Basement dwelling no lifers" sound familiar to you?

[urasim]

That is pretty much the entirety of these forums, you make it sound like the type of person OP is talking about don't attack people who actually want challenge in the game........I don't suppose the terms "Special snowflake" or "Basement dwelling no lifers" sound familiar to you?

No, that doesn't describe the entirety of the forums. It doesn't even describe the majority of people who post on the forum. Also, just because someone is a jerk doesn't give anyone else the right to be a jerk. I can't believe someone would even try to justify their behavior in such a way... Try to be above the petty insults. Especially when they're untrue.

[Cadlington]

Are you really complaining about some kids opinion?

I think the toxic attitude of people like the OP is what's wrong with all of gaming.

The problem here is that you people are assuming that all of those quotes are from one person. They're not. I saw the thread this guy is pulling from, this is several people- and that's just two posts out of- when I last saw it- SEVEN pages of almost the same thing, over and over.

[Deleted]

No, that doesn't describe the entirety of the forums. It doesn't even describe the majority of people who post on the forum. Also, just because someone is a jerk doesn't give anyone else the right to be a jerk. I can't believe someone would even try to justify their behavior in such a way... Try to be above the petty insults. Especially when they're untrue.

You pretty much do ALL THE TIME, in every single one of your posts, the very thing you accuse me of: Attacking people because they have a different opinion than you.

Did I do that? No. I Pointed out an existing problem. And I have yet to see you arguing against me, instead of just insulting me, on ... well really no grounds but your imagination.

[urasim]

You pretty much do ALL THE TIME, in every single one of your posts, the very thing you accuse me of: Attacking people because they have a different opinion than you.

Did I do that? No. I Pointed out an existing problem. And I have yet to see you arguing against me, instead of just insulting me, on ... well really no grounds but your imagination.

You belittled someone for having a different opinion then your own. Which is toxic to the community... Where's the attack in that? Maybe you need to read what I write instead of projecting your hate onto me.

I already said that I agreed with you about the plots. But, that isn't what your posts are about. Your posts are only here to try and shed light on something you think is a problem. The entitlement of gamers in WoW, and how that, and only that, is what is wrong with WoW. You're wrong. The problem with WoW is Blizzard's greed, and the community that hates each other. Instead of discussion what you think is a problem in a constructive way, you flame the people you disagree with calling them names.

If I called you delusional, would that not be an attack on you?

"The cultivated self-delusion of being entitled to everything the game has to offer."
"he just behaves like a kid in a store, blabbering and nagging 'BUT I WANT ANOTHER TOY! MOOOMMMMYYYY!'"

You STILL can't see that the person you're quoting isn't asking for everything handed to them... You won't either. Because it completely destroys your whine thread.

[kamuimac]

That's essentially my argument.

For example, let's say you're limited to only three small plots, two medium plots and one large plot (totally made up numbers). That's your basic limit, but you can then spend resources to expand the garrison to six small plots, four medium and two large... With the costs of building them increased by 25% as they're not on "perfect" land.

Again, resources pull you up to 12, 8 and 4... With costs increased by 50%.

I'd support that.

or why not tie this to alts - from what i understand garrisons are acount wide - why not make extra plots depends on numebrs of max lv charakter - for exampls for each 2 new chars on 100 make aviable 1 plot ofg each kind , going 1>3>5>7 interwalls for it.