For being popular WoW has terrible design.

[Joegrizly]

WoW is a fun game and I enjoy it a lot, mostly because I have a guild and friends to play with, take that away and I wouldn't stick around. Unless I found more friends, which is possible but after 6 years playing with my crew, there's no replacing these people.

With that said I'm saying that WoW needs to cut back on the player protection dont you think? Back in Ultima you there were no whispers or party chat just chat bubbles over your head and anyone could see them... Say you're with 3 people and you found a treasure map, well there's a stealthed person lurking and stalking your group, but you don't know this YET. All of a sudden you and your friends start yammering about this treasure map you found and BOOM you get gank'd, looted and they take ur map, maybe even the key to your house and go rob you for everything, making you start over.

Sounds fun? Also painful huh... lol. THATS THE GAME MAN.

I feel like if you honestly sit back and look at what Blizzard did, they grabbed all the old MMO dev's(EQ,Ultima,Warhammer) and asked them, "what went wrong with your game to lose subs the way it did?" Well its simple really, PLAYER PROTECTION.

Now I know tons of Wrath and Cata babies will come in and run their yap and thats fine but, the game needs to protect the player less.

What's so fun about ganking someone when they can just run back to their body, and if you do it enough times a GM can come down and slap you on the wrist? What's so fun about being in instances all day? Why must everyone be safe and happy?

This might be off topic but it still fits the same to me, where are the attunements?

In Vanilla and TBC you HAD to do all the older content when you first dinged. You did dungeons -> H Dungeons -> Kara -> Gruul's -> Mag -> SSC -> TK -> Hyjal -> BT -> Sunwell.

It was smooth and people whine about having to cycle in old recruits but all the content was FRESH. I started playing in 2008 after attunements were removed but i still did every single TBC raid pre 3.0. Now it's like " HEY DING TO 90 AND GO TO TIMELESS ISLE AND THEN DO SOO LFR BUT YOU HAVE TO GO BACK IN TO OLD CONTENT FOR UR LEGENDARY BUT NOTHING WARRANTING YOUR FULL RAID GOING IN THERE"

It's dumb. There needs to be a reason to always be doing content. Even though attunements were gone I still got them and got my ring and BT neck, etc... CUZ YOU NEEDED THE SHADOW RESISTANCE...

and all the gear in those older instances was good, remember dragon spine trophy? uhhhh the trinket off of Leo the blind in SSC, Tsunami Tailsman. You could literally walk in to BT with Light's Justice off of Prince as a healer... It wasn't so much about gear back then but more so your skills and if you had them you could make the lesser gear work because gear wasn't so fucking inflated like it now because they have to give LFR Hero's an upgrade and then they have to upgrade the flex and then they have to upgrade the normal and then they have to upgrade the heroic.

thats why gear is so freaking inflated.... and once and for all go back to 25man main raid, 10 man off raids meaning lesser shit like Kara and Zul' Aman. THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE.

then you don't need all these dumb ass difficulties just make the normal hard and challenging so that people have to work on it. Who cares if some people can't kill it, if they really want it they'll figure it out... quit handing them everything. PLAYER PROTECTION


EVERYTHING WAS DEVELOPED already.. BT was patched in ok.. and then Sunwell later on because of the delay on WotLK...

Blizzard is dragging out the game for sub money. Why couldn't we have something Sunwell like to do until WoD? Take away from the expansion? An expansion that has features being cut left and right, an expansion that was supposed to let Alliance use Black Temple as a hub city but now that's scraped for some generic bargain bin make shit corn ball city. An expansion that costs $10 and offers not much new stuff... An expansion that will have about 3-5 raids total, when in vanilla you had about 8-9, TBC 8-9, WotLK 8-9, Cata a whooping 5 and MoP the same 5


pretty much blizzard is owned by activision they want to drop an expansion every year and have people buying the game every year, only thing is they can't so they give us an expac every 2-3 years making us do the last half of said expac for 1-1.5 years.


and it sucks that they keep catering to these casuals who just don't understand what its like to play the real way.





TL,DR: wow will be like League of Legends soon with like 8 spells and very boring game play...

[Deleted]

you may be right...

[Joegrizly]

http://imgur.com/iDb22v9

[Sledfang]

As opposed to all those other games that are designed perfectly, but no one plays.

[crunk]

and then wildstar came out and all the oldschoolers realised that in theory they wanted that game but in practicality they're old and don't have time to play it anymore

[Deleted]

Different strokes for different folks.

However I would disagree with the present things found in your argument.

•Slippery slope arguments.

TL,DR: wow will be like League of Legends soon with like 8 spells and very boring game play...

•No true scotsman fallacy.

and it sucks that they keep catering to these casuals who just don't understand what its like to play the real way.

•Nostalgia being presented as hard "facts".

thats why gear is so freaking inflated.... and once and for all go back to 25man main raid, 10 man off raids meaning lesser shit like Kara and Zul' Aman. THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE.

•Elitism.

then you don't need all these dumb ass difficulties just make the normal hard and challenging so that people have to work on it. Who cares if some people can't kill it, if they really want it they'll figure it out... quit handing them everything.

We get it. You have an opinion. If you want to be taken seriously can you at least present it in a way that doesn't make you look like a jaded nostalgia-goggle wearing ranter.

[Deleted]

and then wildstar came out and all the oldschoolers realised that in theory they wanted that game but in practicality they're old and don't have time to play it anymore

Yeah because thats the reason Wildstar failed...it couldnt be the extremely childish look, every spell being AoE, floaty movement, badly optimized engine.

They had the right ideas with oldschool stuff, but they failed with everything else.

[Stacie]

and then wildstar came out and all the oldschoolers realised that in theory they wanted that game but in practicality they're old and don't have time to play it anymore

Spot on really Most old boys i know now have jobs, kids, other commitments. At the Peak of WoW most the players fit in the same age bracket and employment / family status. Single, no kids, at college or out of work.

The truth is no one likes to work for crap. Back in the day when i had no kids, or job i had the time to be BIS now i don't but still want to be. Pushing things away from i would say most the player base making it unobtainable due to there commitments is not a good design.

I welcome things like the 90 boost it gives me more time with family and stuff that little amount of money i could earn in an hour or so at work so much quicker and efficient than levelling to 90 manually.

Casual friendly is good, elitist is bad very very bad for most the old players at least.

I am sure you see many "noobs" as you would call them now in there none heroic warforged kit but awesome old school mounts t3 kit and titles.. They once had more time to play i bet and would love a chance of that kit and maybe even would sub longer if they did.

Players with less time get pushed away from what they want from the game. They leave this is bad for everyone.

[Joegrizly]

and then wildstar came out and all the oldschoolers realised that in theory they wanted that game but in practicality they're old and don't have time to play it anymore

or wildstar just wasn't that good of a game? and it doesn't have the story/lore of wow backing it? or another ip to dip in to? yeah try again.

[Lord Pebbleton]

What's so fun about ganking someone over and over, who is helpless and cannot resort to a GM if you killed him 100 times already?
Also, WoW doesn't have a terrible design. It just evolved. As much as I miss the Vanilla zones, if they kept the game as confusing as it was (with all the quests scattered around the damn globe), many new players would've quit.

Terrbile design would be keeping the game always the same. New ways to change things can also be something like making gear more relevant that skill, or give a legendary through patience for once, and not just pure RNG. No one knows if it's gonna work well until you test it.

[Joegrizly]

Spot on really Most old boys i know now have jobs, kids, other commitments. At the Peak of WoW most the players fit in the same age bracket and employment / family status. Single, no kids, at college or out of work.

The truth is no one likes to work for crap. Back in the day when i had no kids, or job i had the time to be BIS now i don't but still want to be. Pushing things away from i would say most the player base making it unobtainable due to there commitments is not a good design.

I welcome things like the 90 boost it gives me more time with family and stuff that little amount of money i could earn in an hour or so at work so much quicker and efficient than levelling to 90 manually.

Casual friendly is good, elitist is bad very very bad for most the old players at least.

yet i bet your friends still play games lol... I know tons of people with careers, families, lives, etc, yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn try again

[Deleted]

Spot on really Most old boys i know now have jobs, kids, other commitments. At the Peak of WoW most the players fit in the same age bracket and employment / family status. Single, no kids, at college or out of work.

The truth is no one likes to work for crap. Back in the day when i had no kids, or job i had the time to be BIS now i don't but still want to be. Pushing things away from i would say most the player base making it unobtainable due to there commitments is not a good design.

I welcome things like the 90 boost it gives me more time with family and stuff that little amount of money i could earn in an hour or so at work so much quicker and efficient than levelling to 90 manually.

Casual friendly is good, elitist is bad very very bad for most the old players at least.

I am sure you see many "noobs" as you would call them now in there none heroic warforged kit but awesome old school mounts t3 kit and titles.. They once had more time to play i bet and would love a chance of that kit and maybe even would sub longer if they did.

Players with less time get pushed away from what they want from the game. They leave this is bad for everyone.

and you are right too..! i am one of the older guys

BUT for me it is ok not having BIS gear... for me its ok, when i fall behind because i have no time to do all the stuff, or even join a raid guild.


...i gues that is true loyality

[Deleted]

That is a lot of opinion and generalization in one post

[NRL1515]

I hate to point out the obvious, but for a game going a decade strong, they must be doing SOMETHING right. All great things must change and evolve in order to survive. I think that's excellent design right there. There are certain things about this game that I was sad they changed, but I still play because the pros VASTLY outweigh the cons.

[Joegrizly]

Different strokes for different folks.

However I would disagree with the present things found in your argument.

•Slippery slope arguments.



•No true scotsman fallacy.



•Nostalgia being presented as hard "facts".



•Elitism.




We get it. You have an opinion. If you want to be taken seriously can you at least present it in a way that doesn't make you look like a jaded nostalgia-goggle wearing ranter.

man you're dense dude what so elitist about saying that 10man should be what it was? do you not understand that its incredibly difficult to design the game and be challenging in both aspects? why do you think they're shifting towards mythic to begin with? instead of that just get rid of all the difficulties and have THE RAID. ITS HARD. you get better or you dont... you practice and learn how to deal with it.. its not rocket science.

I get it. You have an opinion. If you want to be taken seriously you can at least present it in a way that doesn't make you look like a sensitive casual who enjoys handouts and free lewts.

Warning: Lay off the mocking attitude

[fixx]

I feel like if you honestly sit back and look at what Blizzard did, they grabbed all the old MMO dev's(EQ,Ultima,Warhammer) and asked them, "what went wrong with your game to lose subs the way it did?" Well its simple really, PLAYER PROTECTION.

and it sucks that they keep catering to these casuals who just don't understand what its like to play the real way.

WoW was made to be casual from day one. It was called "hello kitty island adventure of MMORPGs" in 2005 because it had no death penalty. And guess what... Making casual game instead of grindy shit like UO or EQ or FFXI or DAoC made WoW 20 times more popular than all those games put together.

This might be off topic but it still fits the same to me, where are the attunements?

Who cares, there's about 20 different topics in your post, which one of those is on topic or off topic? The only common topic is you're beating about 20 different dead horses.

Attunements are gone because those were shit. Only thing attunements did was fuck over mediocre guilds, and you really do not want that in a game that tries to survive few more years.

It's dumb. There needs to be a reason to always be doing content. Even though attunements were gone I still got them and got my ring and BT neck, etc... CUZ YOU NEEDED THE SHADOW RESISTANCE...

Why bother? You didn't actually need those items, even when BT was current content. Most guilds cheesed Shahraz with 3-4 green shadow protection items farmed from trashmobs instead of bothering crafting the shadow resistance shit that was supposed to be another lame gating mechanic.

then you don't need all these dumb ass difficulties just make the normal hard and challenging so that people have to work on it. Who cares if some people can't kill it, if they really want it they'll figure it out... quit handing them everything. PLAYER PROTECTION

Almost all games for past 20 years has had multiple difficulties. Why not WoW? Maybe you need to use protection from getting hit in the head with hammer or you'll just keep saying stupid things?

An expansion that will have about 3-5 raids total, when in vanilla you had about 8-9, TBC 8-9, WotLK 8-9, Cata a whooping 5 and MoP the same 5

You have a crystal ball that tells you the future, or just pulling numbers out of your arse? Probably later since you can count past expansions exactly instead of having 8-9 ranges.

pretty much blizzard is owned by activision they want to drop an expansion every year and have people buying the game every year, only thing is they can't so they give us an expac every 2-3 years making us do the last half of said expac for 1-1.5 years.

Blizzard's been saying even before TBC came out they want yearly expansions, it just hasn't worked out. And in case you didn't know it Blizzard had nothing to do with Activision back when TBC came out. And it doesn't matter one bit anyway because Activision does not decide or dictate what Blizzard does.

TL,DR: wow will be like League of Legends soon with like 8 spells and very boring game play...

TL;DR: the OP is just beating a dead horse. Actually several dead horses.

[Joegrizly]

WoW was made to be casual from day one. It was called "hello kitty island adventure of MMORPGs" in 2005 because it had no death penalty. And guess what... Making casual game instead of grindy shit like UO or EQ or FFXI or DAoC made WoW 20 times more popular than all those games put together.




Who cares, there's about 20 different topics in your post, which one of those is on topic or off topic? The only common topic is you're beating about 20 different dead horses.

Attunements are gone because those were shit. Only thing attunements did was fuck over mediocre guilds, and you really do not want that in a game that tries to survive few more years.




Why bother? You didn't actually need those items, even when BT was current content. Most guilds cheesed Shahraz with 3-4 green shadow protection items farmed from trashmobs instead of bothering crafting the shadow resistance shit that was supposed to be another lame gating mechanic.




Almost all games for past 20 years has had multiple difficulties. Why not WoW? Maybe you need to use protection from getting hit in the head with hammer?




You have a crystal ball that tells you the future, or just pulling numbers out of your arse? Probably later since you can count past expansions exactly instead of having 8-9 ranges.




Blizzard's been saying even before TBC came out they want yearly expansions, it just hasn't worked out. And in case you didn't know it Blizzard had nothing to do with Activision back when TBC came out. And it doesn't matter one bit anyway because Activision does not decide or dictate what Blizzard does.




TL;DR: the OP is just beating a dead horse. Actually several dead horses.

stopped reading after attunments were shit. Obviously this guy was stuck in Karazhan all TBC. this guy is just talking out of his ass.

[Deleted]

TL;DR: the OP is just beating a dead horse. Actually several dead horses.

But i really think that in your last quote of him he is right i do absolutly not like reducing buttons... i am casual but an awesome player i can handel a lot of bindings.

[Deleted]

man you're dense dude what so elitist about saying that 10man should be what it was? do you not understand that its incredibly difficult to design the game and be challenging in both aspects? why do you think they're shifting towards mythic to begin with? instead of that just get rid of all the difficulties and have THE RAID. ITS HARD. you get better or you dont... you practice and learn how to deal with it.. its not rocket science.

I get it. You have an opinion. If you want to be taken seriously you can at least present it in a way that doesn't make you look like a sensitive casual who enjoys handouts and free lewts.

Over generalisation of a reply that leads to inaccurate conclusions. Misquoting where I labeled your elitism. And deliberate spelling mistakes to boot.

You are literally a walking stereotype of nostalgia goggles. There will be no serious discussion derived from this.

[Teebone]

I think its high time for a progression server. This way elitist jackasses can go wave their e-peens at each other and leave the rest of us the fuck alone. God I really hope I wasn't this fucking ignorant when I ran in the BiS crowd.