LFR Being Phased Out...is this Possible?

[Perkunas]

Still better than zero proof.

It's a terrible question though. Casual ≠ Bad and that idea is something bad players try to push so they can rally non-hardcore folks to their cause. Casuals can clear SoO Heroic, casuals can have 2400+ arena teams, casuals can control entire markets on servers. Stop linking casual with bad.

[Perkunas]

I never did? You should pay attention to whom is being responded to. I asked for a poll stating the majority of the playerbase thinks that raiding should be a reward for hardcore only. He could not provide it. Casual = Bad was never brought up at all, and is untrue.

Raiding hasn't been exclusive to the Hardcore since Everquest. Hardcore in Warcraft is a misnomer. Instanced dungeons remove the major hardcore element of having to compete for random spawn that could happen at 4 in the morning and you had to poopsock it.

[Perkunas]

Now you're ignoring what I said. I never said it was exclusive to Hardcore, and never suggested it should be/was in WoW.

He stated the majority of the playerbase believed it should be. I asked for a poll proving it. He made a poll. It backfired. That is the situation which you are inserting yourself into and clearly not understanding.

I'm saying the poll was based on a flawed premise as I stated in said poll. I think we're both arguing past each other. I don't think raiding should be only for the hardest of the hardcore and I'm an elitist prick. Player skill should be the primary factor. I do however think attunements and strict tiered progression should be part of the most difficult content.

[Perkunas]

While the wording may have been iffy, the poll is not based on a flawed premise. Yes, 'casual' is not the word to use, but 'casual' is the word tied to all things meaning 'bad' in today's gaming world. It is understood that way, the same way that 'fag' actually means 'a pile of sticks,' but evolved into use as a slang term for homosexual as well.

If the poll was worded as "Do you think raiding should be a reward for raiders and not bad players?" the results (While I can't be sure of this; This is speculation on my part) would likely be very similar. Why? Because when one states the player is a 'casual,' they don't mean 'That player doesn't have much time to play!' They mean 'That player is bad.' The same way 'noob' in essense is a slang term for 'new player,' but for the longest time was slang for a bad player.

So again, you're harping on a word that has evolved to new meaning and is being used in the new meaning.

I contend that it's the shitty players who are trying to steal the word and increase the size of their tent. People who say that casual equates to bad are morons. I am a casual and I was a hardcore raider for years in EQ and Warcraft. I am a casual because I don't play nearly as much as I used to. I spend more time on MMO-Champion forums then I do in game. It's the point that I'm trying to make and that you seem to claim that casual is now code for shitty player. These people who do that(claim casual means bad) don't actually have anything intelligent to add to the conversation.

[PrairieChicken]

I'll just repeat my stance again:

I have no issue with LFR existing.

I do have issue with LFR being mandatory for progression.

I will see how it works out in Warlords - if I feel that LFR is not an issue for gearing up this time then I won't complain about it.

[PrairieChicken]

I feel like Ashran will be the "New LFR" - place where people AFK for epics (conquest points in this case, but 660 is very good).

[Perkunas]

The same could be said about those who turned 'noob' into a slang term for 'bad player.'

You play the game casually. In a sense, you can call yourself a casual player. That doesn't make YOU the 'casual' people are talking about, the same way 'noob' did not suddenly mean every new player must instantly be bad. 'Casual' is just the buzzword of the current age. It means bad. It isn't insulting casual players; It's insulting bad players with the new buzzword. Same as noob.

The word doesn't mean shit. It doesn't make anyone intelligent to not talk about it, it doesn't make someone less intelligent to say it that way.

The issue is that it's a deliberate misnomer designed with the purpose of furthering the cause of shitty players. Some of them might actually be casual, but as somebody who is actually a proper casual as in the original definition I object to being lumped in with keyboard-turning, standing in the fire like it was a dps buff, couldn't clear LFR Garrosh without the stacking idiot buff baddie. Grouping those of us who aren't bad in with those that are doesn't automatically make us share their concerns, ideas, opinions, desires.

This is going nowhere though. People will continue to do things dishonestly on purpose and that's the real point I'm making. It's deliberate and it's annoying.

[Cameltotem]

http://wod.wowhead.com/item=109939&bonus=524

Heroic 5man drops 630 item level and LFR is 650 item level.

Soo we have to farm gear in LFR before we can start doing normal raids? Really fuck this shit..

[MrLordDariusCrowley]

http://wod.wowhead.com/item=109939&bonus=524

Heroic 5man drops 630 item level and LFR is 650 item level.

Soo we have to farm gear in LFR before we can start doing normal raids? Really fuck this shit..

The normal raids will have been cleared before LFR is available. And I don't think the players that cleared normal are time travelers with LFR gear.

[Cameltotem]

The normal raids will have been cleared before LFR is available. And I don't think the players that cleared normal are time travelers with LFR gear.

And future raid patches? Will they delay LFR by a few weeks every patch?

[MrLordDariusCrowley]

And future raid patches? Will they delay LFR by a few weeks every patch?

They did that with SoO.

Siege of Orgrimmar release schedule: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/107...edule-9_4_2013

September 10 – Patch 5.4 Release
Normal
Flex Wing 1 “Vale of Eternal Sorrows”

September 17
Heroic (Normal Garrosh kill required)
Flex Wing 2 “Gates of Retribution”
Raid Finder Wing 1 “Vale of Eternal Sorrows”

September 24
Raid Finder Wing 2 “Gates of Retribution”

October 1
Flex Wing 3 “The Underhold”

October 8
Raid Finder Wing 3 “The Underhold”

October 15
Flex Wing 4 “Downfall”

October 22
Raid Finder Wing 4 “Downfall”

1 wing of SoO LFR was opened up each week after SoO's initial launch
Garrosh was first available in LFR more than a month after SoO normal.

[Anzaman]

Heroic 5man drops 630 item level and LFR is 650 item level.

Soo we have to farm gear in LFR before we can start doing normal raids? Really fuck this shit..

Isn't LFR 640?

[kamuimac]

http://wod.wowhead.com/item=109939&bonus=524

Heroic 5man drops 630 item level and LFR is 650 item level.

Soo we have to farm gear in LFR before we can start doing normal raids? Really fuck this shit..

no u dont - what u need to farm is CMs for lfr quality loot - unless ur to retarded to complete them then lfr is perfect place for u to be so dont complain about itsince it may be your natural habitat which u may be ashemed of.

im more interested in those 620 pvp items since it seem those will be the items u will desire before hiting hc dungens on alts instead spaming normal ones.

[grandgato]

Isn't LFR 640?

Could be 631 and some folks would consider it "Mandatory".

[PrairieChicken]

Isn't LFR 640?

Highmaul LFR is 640, BRF LFR is 650

[Lathais]

The problem now is to keep my gear up to date I need to toil mindlessly in LFR, and I normally queue up as a tank so I might not even have the option to AFK.

Even if it were true, you apparently just want to AFK or get carried anyway, so why do you care?

[HeedmySpeed]

The normal raids will have been cleared before LFR is available. And I don't think the players that cleared normal are time travelers with LFR gear.

So you disregard players who aren't serious raiders? What about alts in the future?
To most players, LFR kind of feels mandatory and we're not just talking about hardcore raiders. It's just too easy to pass up, like using flying mounts over ground mounts.

[Radish Spirit]

So you disregard players who aren't serious raiders? What about alts in the future?
To most players, LFR kind of feels mandatory and we're not just talking about hardcore raiders. It's just too easy to pass up, like using flying mounts over ground mounts.

If it's only "most" players and it only "kind of feels" that way, then it's not mandatory. By definition.

I can't believe this thread is 47 pages long. It was answered on the first page. LFR is fine and it's here to stay. End of discussion on Page 1. The fact that we can fill 50 fucking pages discussing something we knew the answer to before it was even fucking posted should make all of you stop for a minute and really consider what you're doing with your spare time on this forum...

[HeedmySpeed]

If it's only "most" players and it only "kind of feels" that way, then it's not mandatory. By definition.

I can't believe this thread is 47 pages long. It was answered on the first page. LFR is fine and it's here to stay. End of discussion on Page 1. The fact that we can fill 50 fucking pages discussing something we knew the answer to before it was even fucking posted should make all of you stop for a minute and really consider what you're doing with your spare time on this forum...

What other word would you use instead of mandatory? LFR isn't mandatory in the same sense that airplanes aren't mandatory for domestic traveling (i.e state to state).

LFR is fine and it's here to stay.

Bang up job, you should be president and solve all the worlds problems.

[DeadmanWalking]

So you disregard players who aren't serious raiders? What about alts in the future?
To most players, LFR kind of feels mandatory and we're not just talking about hardcore raiders. It's just too easy to pass up, like using flying mounts over ground mounts.

LFR has a gear ilevel requirement, by the time you have enough heroic dungeon gear to go into LFR you could also be in Normal(heroic) raiding. Normal raiding does not have a gear level requirement. In MoP the gear level to start raiding was like 463, which is also where Hardcore raiders started going into normal mode weeks before LFR existed.

If you are a hardcore raider you don't need the LFR gear crutch even on late tier alts. Hardcore raiding is more than just raiding and playing a lot. Hardcore raiders follow rules of conduct that would seem harsh, punishing and draconian to most raiders like healers not being allowed tier pieces because DPS need it more, people who might only be activated for 1 or 2 bosses an entire expansion because that class has a .01% advantage over another. These are not people who just show up on friday raid night expecting an active raid slot. Being able to down heroic bosses does not make you a hardcore raider. It makes you a skilled raider but not exactly hardcore.

Some people have an exaggerated self perception of their skill and committment.