Why isnt Melee mobility being nerfed in WOD?

[Raldazzar]

Tried to kill a Destro Lock orb carrier in Temple of Kotmogu with my Ret today.

Judgement (speed-up with LAotL) + throwing myself on Destro Lock with the orb >> jk Howl of Terror
Trinketing, trying to catch him again >> jk Shivarra, Mesmerise
It breaks down >> Shadowfury 3 sec >> Mesmerise, even with DR still 2 sec or so >> slow from Immolate + Conflagrate
Spending GCDs for Emancipate to get rid of Slows - another Mesmerise >> immune, thank God. Seems there is finally no more Fears left so I can finally do some damage!

Stunning Warlock popping CDs >> jk Scatter shot Freezing trap, that's a Hunter friend coming to stop my burst >> trap breaks on damage, but just into a casted Fear from same Lock who's still alive.

I have to use my only big defensive CD - bubble - as extra CC breaker to finally get this Lock with like 5 debuff stacks down. And what if it was on CD? Trading major, 5 min long cd for single CC escape?

Nice game, GG. Ranged CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - endless CC abuse from 40 yards till someone playing spec like Ret who is getting completely crippled by CC, gets frustrated and wishes to break his monitor with something heavy.

Thanks, I don't want to pay for this game if WoD won't change things. Especially a HUGE nerf on Warlock CC. Always OP class in high end arena, season after season for 3-4 expansions in a row. Maybe it's enough already?

Not quite sure what you are complaining about? that two people co ordinating CC can lock you down? that's intended. you aren't a demi god!

[Bullettime]

And then there's Hunters.

Only BM is doing even remotely decent. Marks's new Mastery and dependence on a Chaos Bolt-esque cast time skill make it pretty easy to abuse while Survival is back to being terrible.

[Shisui-kun]

Only BM is doing even remotely decent. Marks's new Mastery and dependence on a Chaos Bolt-esque cast time skill make it pretty easy to abuse while Survival is back to being terrible.

Survival is great, it's just gear dependant and it's behind in tuning. I'm sure of it that survival will get a 20% damage buff from here on out.

[Ermelloth]

Not quite sure what you are complaining about? that two people co ordinating CC can lock you down? that's intended. you aren't a demi god!

The Locks themselves are able to lock down a Paladin for 20 sec or so non-stop, without help, at the moment, if trinket / bubble are on CD, or after the Paladin used these. This all comes out of stupidity that Horror and Fear currently (prior to WoD) are on different DRs. He just needs to rotate Fear / Mesmerise with Shadowfury or Mortal Coil while applying Blood Horror on himself for additional goddamn fear effect here and there if a Paladin strikes him in melee. Even when DRs break, after a window of like 5-6 seconds he can CC me again, using a different DR or other cooldown. Add Teleport and Gate effects to it... I hate Warlocks and facing Lock teams in 3s inside any comp most of all.

What Warlocks are currently able to do to Paladins and other specs which can't counter CC spam is beyond stupid and ridiculously wrong. In addition, more and more CC is coming from various Warlock pets they can use. It's been cases when I was unfortunate enough to stay 1vs1 vs. Warlocks in arena (after our partners in 2s / 3s both died) and couldn't control my character during 50 out of 60 seconds of combat vs. them.

Thankfully, in WoD with DRs merging, 30-sec CD on Mesmerise and -2 sec in total to Fear duration, this nonsense might end at last.

P.S. In many other RPG and fantasy settings Paladins are the counter of evil, black magic and death magic, thus having this or that form of immunity or resistance to effects like Fear. WoW is the only RPG setting which completely reversed this in most illogical way - both fearing classes using shadow magic are worst counter to Paladins, and Fear is by far the most crippling CC used against us. All thanks to known Paladin hater Ghostcrawler, who made this possible by destroying talents and natural defenses our class is supposed to have vs. Fear and Shadow Magic, like Unyielding Faith talent and more.

[Deleted]

Tried to kill a Destro Lock orb carrier in Temple of Kotmogu with my Ret today.

Judgement (speed-up with LAotL) + throwing myself on Destro Lock with the orb >> jk Howl of Terror
Trinketing, trying to catch him again >> jk Shivarra, Mesmerise
It breaks down >> Shadowfury 3 sec >> Mesmerise, even with DR still 2 sec or so >> slow from Immolate + Conflagrate
Spending GCDs for Emancipate to get rid of Slows - another Mesmerise >> immune, thank God. Seems there is finally no more Fears left so I can finally do some damage!

Stunning Warlock popping CDs >> jk Scatter shot Freezing trap, that's a Hunter friend coming to stop my burst >> trap breaks on damage, but just into a casted Fear from same Lock who's still alive.

I have to use my only big defensive CD - bubble - as extra CC breaker to finally get this Lock with like 5 debuff stacks down. And what if it was on CD? Trading major, 5 min long cd for single CC escape?

Nice game, GG. Ranged CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - endless CC abuse from 40 yards till someone playing spec like Ret who is getting completely crippled by CC, gets frustrated and wishes to break his monitor with something heavy.

Thanks, I don't want to pay for this game if WoD won't change things. Especially a HUGE nerf on Warlock CC. Always OP class in high end arena, season after season for 3-4 expansions in a row. Maybe it's enough already?

So!? You expected to win a 1v2 against coordinated cc?!

Wildstar doesn't have any aoe cc or any cc that lasts more than 2 seconds, and it's a clusterfuck with no tactics or strategy. Fuck that, dude.

[Teebone]

So!? You expected to win a 1v2 against coordinated cc?!

Wildstar doesn't have any aoe cc or any cc that lasts more than 2 seconds, and it's a clusterfuck with no tactics or strategy. Fuck that, dude.

Some people think they should be able to always win. PvP =/= PvE.

[Deleted]

Casters are going to be screwed in the first stage of WoD, that's for sure.
Maybe they will fix it in a later patch when people all play melee :P

In general, this is shaping up to be one of the worst balanced seasons. Maybe we shouldnt have been so harsh on good ol' Ghostcrawler

[Illana]

Judgement (speed-up with LAotL) + throwing myself on Destro Lock with the orb >> jk Howl of Terror
Trinketing, trying to catch him again >> jk Shivarra, Mesmerise
It breaks down >> Shadowfury 3 sec >> Mesmerise, even with DR still 2 sec or so >> slow from Immolate + Conflagrate
Spending GCDs for Emancipate to get rid of Slows - another Mesmerise >> immune, thank God. Seems there is finally no more Fears left so I can finally do some damage!

You know you have an ability that can cc a lock pet for 8 seconds right? It's also ranged.

Stunning Warlock popping CDs >> jk Scatter shot Freezing trap, that's a Hunter friend coming to stop my burst >> trap breaks on damage, but just into a casted Fear from same Lock who's still alive.

So you're complaining about a 1v2 situation, you expected to do well in a 1v2?

I have to use my only big defensive CD - bubble - as extra CC breaker to finally get this Lock with like 5 debuff stacks down. And what if it was on CD? Trading major, 5 min long cd for single CC escape?

I think using a 5 minute cd to attempt a 1v2 is a fair trade.

Nice game, GG. Ranged CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - endless CC abuse from 40 yards till someone playing spec like Ret who is getting completely crippled by CC, gets frustrated and wishes to break his monitor with something heavy.

While I agree there's too much cc, you're kind of trying to spin it in your favour but it's quite clearly nothing to do with cc in this situation it's your lack of skill/experience.

Thanks, I don't want to pay for this game if WoD won't change things. Especially a HUGE nerf on Warlock CC. Always OP class in high end arena, season after season for 3-4 expansions in a row. Maybe it's enough already?

lock will always be strong just because of their base toolkit.

[Baracuda]

Tried to kill a Destro Lock orb carrier in Temple of Kotmogu with my Ret today.

Judgement (speed-up with LAotL) + throwing myself on Destro Lock with the orb >> jk Howl of Terror
Trinketing, trying to catch him again >> jk Shivarra, Mesmerise
It breaks down >> Shadowfury 3 sec >> Mesmerise, even with DR still 2 sec or so >> slow from Immolate + Conflagrate
Spending GCDs for Emancipate to get rid of Slows - another Mesmerise >> immune, thank God. Seems there is finally no more Fears left so I can finally do some damage!

Stunning Warlock popping CDs >> jk Scatter shot Freezing trap, that's a Hunter friend coming to stop my burst >> trap breaks on damage, but just into a casted Fear from same Lock who's still alive.

I have to use my only big defensive CD - bubble - as extra CC breaker to finally get this Lock with like 5 debuff stacks down. And what if it was on CD? Trading major, 5 min long cd for single CC escape?

Nice game, GG. Ranged CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - CC - endless CC abuse from 40 yards till someone playing spec like Ret who is getting completely crippled by CC, gets frustrated and wishes to break his monitor with something heavy.

Thanks, I don't want to pay for this game if WoD won't change things. Especially a HUGE nerf on Warlock CC. Always OP class in high end arena, season after season for 3-4 expansions in a row. Maybe it's enough already?

You're just bad, no offence.

[Anium]

lol melee mobility not nerfed? Have you even seen what they have done to Warriors mobility:
20 sec charge if you want it to stun (which you bloody do if you give a shit about pvp). Honestly this is going to be a biggy.
Heroic leap trash and the glyph on top of that reducing range even more trash.
Safeguard lols.
So yeah, all classes took hits.

[rda]

lol melee mobility not nerfed? Have you even seen what they have done to Warriors mobility:
20 sec charge if you want it to stun (which you bloody do if you give a shit about pvp). Honestly this is going to be a biggy.
Heroic leap trash and the glyph on top of that reducing range even more trash.
Safeguard lols.
So yeah, all classes took hits.

We've seen all this. It's true that all classes took hits. The end result of these hits is that melee now dominate casters, the power balance has shifted *a lot* towards melee.

[Anium]

We've seen all this. It's true that all classes took hits. The end result of these hits is that melee now dominate casters, the power balance has shifted *a lot* towards melee.

Power balancing shifted? I'm not convinced, you'll see.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

We've seen all this. It's true that all classes took hits. The end result of these hits is that melee now dominate casters, the power balance has shifted *a lot* towards melee.

I think it has shifted a LOT towards melee. Because casters dominated them by a LOT. So a major shift in their direction was required to have any hope of balance. I doubt 100% balance will be achieved but it won't be 20 man raid teams only willing to take 1-2 melee for the whole team like it very much so is now, unless you don't have a choice. Like 2/3rds of the bosses in the game totally shit on melee's ability to do boss fights. While casters can switch to adds, continue DPSing the boss, and move from the fire all without very little loss. Melee on the other hand have to go to near zero DPS time while moving to adds (or waiting for adds to move to them), usually have to stop DPSing the boss while dealing with adds UNLESS they WAIT for the adds to get to boss, and when the fire lands on them typically it is a move out and massive down time while they get out and reposition.

All of these things are required. It WILL NOT achieve 100% balance. The game will likely never achieve this. But it is hard to argue that ranged has been the overwhelmingly powerful side of the coin for a long time. An attempt to balance it back was required unless you are only looking at it selfishly as a ranged. So like I said.. never 100% balanced.. but closer? Bet your ass this will get it there.

[rda]

I think it has shifted a LOT towards melee. Because casters dominated them by a LOT. So a major shift in their direction was required to have any hope of balance.

This is nonsense.

Stop talking about bosses, by the way, this forum is about PVP, I don't care about your PVE one bit.

Casters were not dominating melee nearly to that extent. Let me remind you that the list of absolute, stupidly OP FOTM specs in MoP, which they had to fix - not just "nerf", but "fix"! - included warriors who were almost one-shotting things for quite some time. You are looking at the final two seasons, which really is one long season, because they made next to no changes for the last season, what's with no content after releasing SoO - and yes, casters were better than most melee, but the way you fix this is adjust casters and melee so that they are more or less equal, not tilt the balance in the other direction and press harder to make the new imbalance several times higher!

Otherwise, let's all wait a season until they tilt the balance again in the opposite direction and a single caster can solo the entire opposite team made of melee! SO MUCH FUN!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

All of these things are required. It WILL NOT achieve 100% balance. The game will likely never achieve this.

Noone asks for 100% balance. Noone trusts that Blizzard can do this, it's been pretty clear for a long time that they just can't, they are lost in their numbers. But we at least want balance to not get worse. And it's much, much worse in WoD than in MoP, there's no comparison. And MoP's balance wasn't too great either...

[Debased]

Maybe because casters have 40 yards range and melee don't?

Have you actually PvP'd before? Every melee class has a plethora of short CD tools to ensure a caster never gets more than a couple seconds of decent range.

I think Blizzard's strategy is clear. They intend for this crap to go live and then they're going to balance it in 6.1 after months of outcry, and then surely it'll come back down to mages, warlocks, DK's, and [insert melee].

[ro9ue]

I play a lot of classes in PvP and if you can't see why Blizzard made this change you simply only play casters and not melee.

[rda]

I play a lot of classes in PvP and if you can't see why Blizzard made this change you simply only play casters and not melee.

Very convincing. Lots of hard facts and analysis. Applause.

[lifteez]

Guys, the subject of world castercraft is real but not in 1v1 sense.
ranged vs melee have a disparity.
The issue with ranged vs melee, comes down to the fact of who can hold the pressure, and reclaim it easier. At a low skill cap, ranged are often overtaken by melee in arena because players do not know how to interact with their team, where as at competitive level, a team that works together as ranged can be behind in pressure, but can change the situation much easier with cc and interrupting enemy cc than a melee team can. (A ranged interrupt and many ranged class cc's can get anyone not LoS/40yd) where as the melee classes generally have short ranged interrupts and cc's. If you let melee ontop of you all, yeah you'll probably struggle untl that God tier triple fear spreads them all out and they lose all pressure and Cc.

Yes I'm biased. 2.5k exp rogue, and multiple 2.2-2.4 classes like hpally dk mage.

[rda]

The issue with ranged vs melee, comes down to the fact of who can hold the pressure, and reclaim it easier.

Correct. WoD changed that hugely in favor of melee. That's what the topic is about. Casters are busy surviving and melee tunnel freely.

[Evilfish]

Correct. WoD changed that hugely in favor of melee. That's what the topic is about. Casters are busy surviving and melee tunnel freely.

Hugely? That implies that the melee had a problem before WOD then.