Why isnt Melee mobility being nerfed in WOD?

[Deleted]

Snip snip snip*

I guess you like PvP a little too much. Lok'tar O KeK

I don't even care.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Sounds legit to me.
Whenever I PvP as a melee I always find myself getting kited and killed really quick, to the point where I've stopped playing them.
Ranged, however, has always been worlds easier to PvP on. Nuking is much faster and it is so much easier to get away since your already ranged.

[Deleted]

we should introduce a mandatory rating display for the pvp forums

no point in arguing with 1500 rating bads

I can't take anyone beneath at least 2000 rating seriously

[Dreyen]

Because melee has the disavantage of having to move between targets, while range are usually in range.

[Wulfey]

A brief list of warrior mobility / counter mobility nerfs:

Charge only roots now
No banner intervening because banners are gone
Heroic leap cooldown glyph nerfed
Safeguard root break on intervene removed
Stormbolt moved to eliminate double stun spec
Shattering throw now requires a glyph (letting more players escape the warrior)
Lvl 45 Snaring talents removed (no more root yell, no more dazing shout for arms, no more interrupting shout)

OT has no idea what he is talking about.

[Wow]

mages have been able to blink out of stuns since god knows when, never was a problem for warriors before.
Blazing speed is relatively new but you sacrifice pom for it

The difference is that originally the whole mage toolkit (double block, blink, nova etc) was there because they had literally no armor (like 5% with frost armor lol) so got wrecked by melee. Its not like that anymore and yet nothing changed on mages its only got more retarded. And in wod they aren't giving up anything good for Blazing speed.

[Flaks]

Warriors are dealing far and away the most damage on beta currently - both sustain and burst - is uncounterable - while retaining pretty much all their control and defensive cooldowns from MoP.

Also Shadow's "insane healing"? I don't even know what you're talking about - we lost renew, our mitigation was nerfed from 61% on live, to 16% in WoD, we lost a major CC, ProM now has a cast time and drops shadowform (whatever little mitigation we have), flash heal isn't worth casting (20 flash heals to heal to full in WoD), and devouring plague's self-healing is nerfed compared to live (it might scale up to match or surpass by the end of the WoD expansion, but for the first couple seasons it's a nerf - for the first season it's a huge one).

We all know what happens when a class' niche is "deals lots of damage". They get nerfed, hard. And it's inevitable for arms. And with how mechanically gutted the class is it's not going to get better.

All healing including hybrid healing is overtuned. Spriests fall under that umbrella. I'm not hear to complain about single classes or specs since I don't hold an allegiance to any like I used to. But there's blatant discrepancies going into wod on a class to class basis.

The crux of the matter is that it's not a ranged vs melee issue. There's melee that are absurd and there's casters. My tldr was to describe the sum total of strength between casters vs melee which remains meaningless with or without my mentioning it.

- - - Updated - - -

What is this, I don't even.

Honestly, so much of the gap closer/opener race revolves around fmages and hunters vs warriors and rogues. They keep trying to give these classes equal and opposite tools, and then everyone else ends up slipping behind and they (historically) compensate with tankiness/self-healing - but then want to match those tools with the above, and everything gets thrown out of whack again.

That status quo between mages and warriors hasn't existed for a while.

Rogues and ferals are vastly more mobile than warriors. Hunters put mages to shame. Locks have been on top since arenas were added to the game. As of mop even Spriests are exceptionally mobile and are maintains that mobility going into WoD though they certainly lack in other areas.

There's no reliable trends to follow for class changes except that weak classes get over nerfed and strong ones get over nerfed.

[Salech]

To the guy that says enh shaman have lots of ranged options, please make a video where you show all this against a PvP opponent and please show how great gap closers than Enhancement shamans have, would love to see it.

[Flaks]

To the guy that says enh shaman have lots of ranged options, please make a video where you show all this against a PvP opponent and please show how great gap closers than Enhancement shamans have, would love to see it.

Ret and enh don't have gap closers. They DO have great ways to stick to a target and are better off than dks and warriors in that regard come WoD. Meanwhile warriors have awesome ways to get to their target while dks are anti-cc monsters. And that's honestly a great place to be. The hybrids and pure melee here bring different strengths and weaknesses which is how it should be. Then there's the leather classes.

What needs to happen right now is all leather melee needs massive nerfs in mobility. Feral (actually Druids as a whole), finally needs to get that shape shifting nerf that's been a long time coming with NO compensation. Blizzard needs to stop attempting to make burst of speed "work" for rogues and actually address underlying issues in terms of the classes' over the top cd reliance for the past decade. Monks...I don't really know much about em.

[Baracuda]

A brief list of warrior mobility / counter mobility nerfs:

Charge only roots now
No banner intervening because banners are gone
Heroic leap cooldown glyph nerfed
Safeguard root break on intervene removed
Stormbolt moved to eliminate double stun spec
Shattering throw now requires a glyph (letting more players escape the warrior)
Lvl 45 Snaring talents removed (no more root yell, no more dazing shout for arms, no more interrupting shout)

OT has no idea what he is talking about.

Once again: Warrior is not the ONLY melee class. The Leather melee are the worst atm.

[Deleted]

Its strange 10 years ago no one complaint that much vs melees
You want Vanilla to come well there you are your vanilla 2.0 .Yes melees have better movement that then but unlike that times they cannot oneshot you anymore

[Saberstrike]

Ret and enh don't have gap closers. They DO have great ways to stick to a target and are better off than dks and warriors in that regard come WoD. Meanwhile warriors have awesome ways to get to their target while dks are anti-cc monsters. And that's honestly a great place to be. The hybrids and pure melee here bring different strengths and weaknesses which is how it should be. Then there's the leather classes.

What needs to happen right now is all leather melee needs massive nerfs in mobility. Feral (actually Druids as a whole), finally needs to get that shape shifting nerf that's been a long time coming with NO compensation. Blizzard needs to stop attempting to make burst of speed "work" for rogues and actually address underlying issues in terms of the classes' over the top cd reliance for the past decade. Monks...I don't really know much about em.

Much truth here. It's almost like they have a quota of annoyance they're obliged to keep in PvP.

[Rorschachs]

A brief list of warrior mobility / counter mobility nerfs:

Charge only roots now
No banner intervening because banners are gone
Heroic leap cooldown glyph nerfed
Safeguard root break on intervene removed
Stormbolt moved to eliminate double stun spec
Shattering throw now requires a glyph (letting more players escape the warrior)
Lvl 45 Snaring talents removed (no more root yell, no more dazing shout for arms, no more interrupting shout)

OT has no idea what he is talking about.

I agree that melee mobility feels fine in wod, the problem is hybrids healing as much as dedicated healers + rogues still having all the cc they had while everyone else lost their cc and cc breaks + feral mobility is NOT fine in wod. You can't ever get a feral off you ever.

The difference is that originally the whole mage toolkit (double block, blink, nova etc) was there because they had literally no armor (like 5% with frost armor lol) so got wrecked by melee. Its not like that anymore and yet nothing changed on mages its only got more retarded. And in wod they aren't giving up anything good for Blazing speed.

Frost mages don't have molten armor anymore in wod, so no more + %16 physical damage reduction for frost mages anymore and it matters A LOT.

[Mormolyce]

Frost mages don't have molten armor anymore in wod, so no more + %16 physical damage reduction for frost mages anymore and it matters A LOT.

Flat damage reduction isn't a real problem, there are plenty of other levers they can pull if they're unhappy with mage squishiness.

[Wow]

Frost mages don't have molten armor anymore in wod, so no more + %16 physical damage reduction for frost mages anymore and it matters A LOT.

Still doesn't leave them anywhere near what it was like in vanilla-wrath. It does matter a lot but it still doesn't compare.

[Lulbalance]

The difference is that originally the whole mage toolkit (double block, blink, nova etc) was there because they had literally no armor (like 5% with frost armor lol) so got wrecked by melee. Its not like that anymore and yet nothing changed on mages its only got more retarded. And in wod they aren't giving up anything good for Blazing speed.

1 - we give up one of the best spells in our kit for landing cc (i'm looking at you druids.. ok actually i'm focus/looking at you) in exchange for blazing speed.
2 - blazing speed has been around forever. The current iteration is new..personally, i actually liked the old way of proc'n on physical dmg and blowing out of roots.

OT - i feel like most of these arguments are retarded. here are the facts:

A] Melee is overpowered on WoD
B] There needs to be something done do minimize uptime across the board without creating casters gods.

that's it..people are throwing up so many smoke screens and past mechanics that it's confusing a relatively simple problem.

- - - Updated - - -

Still doesn't leave them anywhere near what it was like in vanilla-wrath. It does matter a lot but it still doesn't compare.

this is moot. uptime was much lower in wrath. nova damage threshold was higher. dispells worked differently. classes had fewer gap closers.

this is the type of sh^t that has no relevance to anything.

[zenga]

To the guy that says enh shaman have lots of ranged options, please make a video where you show all this against a PvP opponent and please show how great gap closers than Enhancement shamans have, would love to see it.

Enhance can cast ...

- interrupt from 30y away
- purge from 30y away
- earth / frost / flame shock from 30y away
- unleash elements from 40y away
- elemental blast from 40y away
- lightning bolt from 30y away
- healing surge from 40y away
- hex from 30y away
- bind elemental from 30y away

The only 2 spells that require you to be within melee range are stormstrike and lava lash. Who have an 8 and a 10s cd. And during ascendance stormblast range is 30y. Obviously you don't attack with weapons from range, but enhance has way more tools to bridge time while rooted/snared than other melees.

[Debased]

Because melee is suppose to have movement as their strong suit, that's what they're aiming for with WoD last I heard.

Also ranged isn't countered as much by roots and snares, they can still do things at least. Melee can't.

Have you actually played PvP? Obviously not. Go try it. If you're a caster you are going to get mulched if a melee snares you and you try to mash your little PvE damage rotation because that warrior is going to charge you stun you and then bladestorm you.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's what's going to happen about two months into Warlords.

1. Caster damage and CC receives significant buffs
2. Melee damage is nerfed hard
3. Quite a few spell changes will be reverted

Conclusion. Blizzard doesn't balance PvP in Beta intentionally because they're too concerned with polishing PvE aspects because Blizzard is lame.

[Blithe]

It's really just Feral being able to do anything they want when it comes to snares and roots that bothers me. I'm surprised they haven't gotten rid of the "shape-shift out of roots and snares" yet, it's very strong, especially in a meta where casters have to cast. Increase the mana cost or something, make it detrimental for them to shape-shift out of everything.

[Saberstrike]

"because that warrior is going to charge you stun you and then bladestorm you."

Then you'll blink because you're a mage (or a druid), making bladestorm obsolete since the day it was added.

If you're a wlock or a shadowpriest then indeed, tough luck. Warriors are -meant- to counter you. Warlocks in particular have honestly been ridiculous this entire expansion so it's about bloody time they're brought back into line from being literally the best class in the game.