Moonkin patchnotes

[Deleted]

So, if we Specc into BoP and there are adds that you dot and the adds die, even after refreshing the dots on the main target wont give us proccs anymore making the talent utterly useless? Or did i missread something? Quite tired at the moment.

You'd have to refresh the dots on the main target manually, just extending them with the BoP mechanic means that you won't get any SS procs from the main target.

[Deleted]

Sadly BoP is more about the 10% increased dot damage than the extending, since on most encounters (except Gruul and Butcher I suppose) have so much movement we end up casting MF/SnF anyway. And as Lappe said, the big dps loss with the most recent dot mechanic is short lived adds. We might end up not casting dots at all because the damage gained from a short MF/SnF doesn't outweight the loss in SS procs. This will especially be true when you are about to leave an eclipse, and thus wont be able to recast the dot for 20 (10 /w euphoria) seconds.

[Miraclous]

So, if we Specc into BoP and there are adds that you dot and the adds die, even after refreshing the dots on the main target wont give us proccs anymore making the talent utterly useless? Or did i missread something? Quite tired at the moment.

You can recast fresh Snf/MF on the target. Although they won't extend any of your long-duration BoP DoTs, they will repurpose them as the most recent DoT and they'll proc SS again.

edit: missed this but its correct

You'd have to refresh the dots on the main target manually, just extending them with the BoP mechanic means that you won't get any SS procs from the main target.

[Apero]

Ah, oversaw the extension by hardcasts baked in the talent. It makes sense now. Thanks guys.

[lappee]

Sadly BoP is more about the 10% increased dot damage than the extending, since on most encounters (except Gruul and Butcher I suppose) have so much movement we end up casting MF/SnF anyway. And as Lappe said, the big dps loss with the most recent dot mechanic is short lived adds. We might end up not casting dots at all because the damage gained from a short MF/SnF doesn't outweight the loss in SS procs. This will especially be true when you are about to leave an eclipse, and thus wont be able to recast the dot for 20 (10 /w euphoria) seconds.

The dot extension is actually quite useful in many of the fights and it keeps getting more and more useful the more haste you get (+ 4-set).

Sure we probably wont cast moonfire on adds that die quickly, but we most likely will cast sunfire specially if they're clumped up together. I honestly think SS should be changed into working with most recent dot, or the dot with longest duration (which is likely the easier solution programming wise)

[Deleted]

Not trying to say it is useless, just feels a bit weird that the main effect of the talent isn't actually the biggest dps increase. It works fine gameplay wise, it still achieves its goal, since the dot extension does impact our rotation while the 10% dot damage doesn't. Only bad thing is that it could affect our talent choice on multi target fights since the 10% dot dmg could be stronger than StFl.

About the most recent dot, if it were to change to be the most recent active dot or the one with the longest duration, when would it carry over to the new dot? Since your dots isn't synced, you would either get less or more ticks that have a chance to proc. In theory it would even out over time since you can have anywhere between 0.01 and 3.99 seconds between the 2 dot ticks, but in most situations you would actually still lose a little bit if you cast MF twice in a row on 2 different targets. (since tick time is 2 seconds and gcd is 1.5 seconds, your first dot would always tick 1.5 seconds after your second dot, and on average you would lose 75% of a dot ticks chance to proc SS when that happens.) Obviously this is really minor and most likely wont ever matter, but just something to keep in mind if it does change.

[lappee]

Not trying to say it is useless, just feels a bit weird that the main effect of the talent isn't actually the biggest dps increase. It works fine gameplay wise, it still achieves its goal, since the dot extension does impact our rotation while the 10% dot damage doesn't. Only bad thing is that it could affect our talent choice on multi target fights since the 10% dot dmg could be stronger than StFl.

I havent done any math regarding how big dps increase the dot extenstion is (aka having those extra globals, which ofc depends on number of targets etc) but for 1-2 target fights i'd say its pretty major.

About the most recent dot, if it were to change to be the most recent active dot or the one with the longest duration, when would it carry over to the new dot? Since your dots isn't synced, you would either get less or more ticks that have a chance to proc. In theory it would even out over time since you can have anywhere between 0.01 and 3.99 seconds between the 2 dot ticks, but in most situations you would actually still lose a little bit if you cast MF twice in a row on 2 different targets. (since tick time is 2 seconds and gcd is 1.5 seconds, your first dot would always tick 1.5 seconds after your second dot, and on average you would lose 75% of a dot ticks chance to proc SS when that happens.) Obviously this is really minor and most likely wont ever matter, but just something to keep in mind if it does change.

It doesnt really matter, currently you'll "lose" around the same amount of ticks when you put a new moonfire on second target.

Also its tricky to know which sunfire is the most recent one when spread to multiple targets. Considering you'll have around 6 targets and 3 of them die quickly and the other 3 dont.

[Dreyen]

Just wondering here about racials..

I know crit isn't our top-dog stat, but what would be the dps difference between tauren and troll? I might like to go back to tauren, but 2% crit damage sounds weakish vs troll berserking. 200 stam is pretty strong though (7% of my hp with a premade lvl100 on beta) and i do like tanking, but ill be dpsing most of the time..

[Kyanion]

I've always had a soft spot for Warstomp as well. That ability has been so useful over the years on various fights and while it was not a dps increase to use it, it did save other people or help me do other things so I was glad to have it. I am curious as the dps differences between the 2% crit damage vs berserking though.

[xtramuscle]

I've always had a soft spot for Warstomp as well. That ability has been so useful over the years on various fights and while it was not a dps increase to use it, it did save other people or help me do other things so I was glad to have it. I am curious as the dps differences between the 2% crit damage vs berserking though.

Both are diminished, by us having low levels of crit (thus crit damage will be lower) and by dots not snap shotting any more. Berzerking will only allow an extra 1? cast during the non glyphed CA, and can't be straight macro'd to it any more because of 4set, so we might just find ourselves manually popping it during lunar peak if another trinket procs.

[Deleted]

Also its tricky to know which sunfire is the most recent one when spread to multiple targets. Considering you'll have around 6 targets and 3 of them die quickly and the other 3 dont.

at the moment it is the target you cast Sunfire on that gets the most recent dot. (I'd assume it is just coded so that the Sunfire applied to all other targets will never be considered for SS procs.)

[lappee]

at the moment it is the target you cast Sunfire on that gets the most recent dot. (I'd assume it is just coded so that the Sunfire applied to all other targets will never be considered for SS procs.)

Well it's still going to be tricky if the names are the same, unless you just keep the same one targeted all the time without swapping to boss (or focus the add you initially cast sunrise on)

[Deleted]

Yeah, good thing is on fights where adds are stacked on top of a boss we can simply Sunfire the boss. Would it be possible to write an addon that tracks the last target you cast Sunfire/MF on? Or is the only way to store information like this through boss/focus frames? Might be useful to get a warning whenever the target of your most recent dot dies.

[Deleted]

Yeah, good thing is on fights where adds are stacked on top of a boss we can simply Sunfire the boss. Would it be possible to write an addon that tracks the last target you cast Sunfire/MF on? Or is the only way to store information like this through boss/focus frames? Might be useful to get a warning whenever the target of your most recent dot dies.

I could imagine you can store this information via the nameplates, but you'd have to have that one specific nameplate on the screen all the time I think.

[Miraclous]

at the moment it is the target you cast Sunfire on that gets the most recent dot. (I'd assume it is just coded so that the Sunfire applied to all other targets will never be considered for SS procs.)

Did you test this? Because I do not recall this being the case when I did.

[Deleted]

Did you test this? Because I do not recall this being the case when I did.

yeah, tested using Sunfire on the small packs of dummies in shatt, extending the dot on the target I cast Sunfire on. Did this 5 times. Then I tried extending the dot on one of the other dummies, no proc over 5 min.

[Miraclous]

yeah, tested using Sunfire on the small packs of dummies in shatt, extending the dot on the target I cast Sunfire on. Did this 5 times. Then I tried extending the dot on one of the other dummies, no proc over 5 min.

You're right. I guess when I tested this for a couple of minutes earlier I got really unlucky by not getting any SS procs. I edited my earlier post to avoid confusion.

[Arrowset]

I'm new to moonkin, and I was wondering if someone could give me a basic *pvp* rotation for WoD when I'm, say, doing 2s and facing two melee dps who are training me. Obviously, you can't stand there firing one starfire after another in pvp. I doubt it would be worth it even with the pvp set bonus, since there are a lot of ways to interrupt a starfire cast without an actual interrupt in pvp (e.g. stuns, gouge, spell reflect, deterrence, etc).

I've heard some say they are just using instant starsurges, keeping dots up, and waiting for empowered moonkin procs, but I suspect there's a better rotation than that. I was thinking of popping heart of the wild, keeping rejuv up and using my starsurge interrupt immunity to try to get some healing touches on myself. But that's just an off-the-top-of-my-head strat, would welcome advice from experienced moonkins.

TIA

[Deleted]

I'm not a glad or anything, but I don't believe you use a "rotation" in pvp (atleast not above 1500 rating).

[Deleted]

Can someone who has done some recent raid testing tell me if these blanket nerfs were waranted? or just kicking extra dust in our face?