1. #2901
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithildine View Post
    In the WoD builds, my prefered patch notes are the rogue patch notes : I do not lose any time reading anything... ;-)
    There are always those very important tooltip fixes.

  2. #2902
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    There are always those very important tooltip fixes.
    Sadly, we can't even count on those always showing up.

  3. #2903
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    Wat.

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    BTW: Cloak and Dagger working with Shadow Dance again? Just saw someone use it.

  4. #2904
    I suspect beta strangeness, though it would be nice for at least one spec to find use of it.
    I am the lucid dream
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  5. #2905
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalira View Post
    I am level 100



    Wat.

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    You are supposed to hit it with a gnome until it opens.

  6. #2906
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalira View Post

    BTW: Cloak and Dagger working with Shadow Dance again? Just saw someone use it.
    Just tried it definitely is working with dance but I'm sure its a bug since it would mean they would have had to put time into a rogue talent which we know wouldn't happen.

  7. #2907
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalira View Post
    I downloaded github but it's not working for me.
    This probably isn't the right place to support ShC-VM but what error messages are you seeing?

    Tamen is generally in the #ravenholdt IRC channel and can answer questions as well.
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  8. #2908
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Sad note: I was hoping the mini cleave of Death From Above might save it as an AoE talent - sadly, it is a huge dps loss of around 20% in AoE situations for combat and a reasonable loss of around 7% for subtlety.
    I just cannot stop laughing reading this... What do the rogue "designers" actually understand of what they are providing ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Just tried it definitely is working with dance but I'm sure its a bug since it would mean they would have had to put time into a rogue talent which we know wouldn't happen.
    And if it is not a bug, just wait for the casters understanding and enjoying it a little, Blizzard will then immediately show how reactive with the rogue talent tree they can be... ;-)

  9. #2909
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ithildine View Post
    I just cannot stop laughing reading this... What do the rogue "designers" actually understand of what they are providing ?
    I am still of the opinion that auto attacks or perhaps a version of shuriken toss should continue normally during the DfA animation. I don't have beta, but from the feedback that has been given, DfA seems like a contradictory skill for rogues whom are a class that is designed to maximise uptime on the target.
    I asked Killers on Twitch what he thought of DfA. And his answer was pretty much ''its terrible''. Not exactly good advertising for Warlords of Dreanor design, or has this yet to be looked into? Blizzard can't seriously say with a straight face that we will just accept it because its a cool looking skill? Hell, I do think its the coolest shit ever, wich is why I'm interested in seeing into it that it doesn't suck balls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    shitty self-heals from leeching poison
    I was wondering, with the drasticly increased health pools and lessened dmg numbers, does this mean leeching poison is even worse then it currently is on live? How can they justify keeping this skill as a talent point, I don't get it.

  10. #2910
    Quote Originally Posted by Paincake View Post

    I was wondering, with the drasticly increased health pools and lessened dmg numbers, does this mean leeching poison is even worse then it currently is on live? How can they justify keeping this skill as a talent point, I don't get it.
    Its op for solo'ing cata raids when you are 90 but other than that its next to useless lol. With no bonus dmg from something like that its terrible and solo'ing raids at 100 is a complete joke.

  11. #2911
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Paincake View Post
    I was wondering, with the drasticly increased health pools and lessened dmg numbers, does this mean leeching poison is even worse then it currently is on live? How can they justify keeping this skill as a talent point, I don't get it.
    Relative to mHP, yes it is much worse. But that isn't really important, what matters is how it compares to the incoming damage and the healing done by healers.
    Is it enough to have a noticeable impact for the healers? I don't know, but if you're going to evaluate the usefulness of Leeching Poison, that's what you need to look at.

  12. #2912
    Quote Originally Posted by MrElusive View Post
    Relative to mHP, yes it is much worse. But that isn't really important, what matters is how it compares to the incoming damage and the healing done by healers.
    Is it enough to have a noticeable impact for the healers? I don't know, but if you're going to evaluate the usefulness of Leeching Poison, that's what you need to look at.
    This.

    They've stressed time and again that the healing model going into Warlords is not about huge spikes of raid damage like it was in Mists and the current healing model is not about keeping people topped. So if you look at it in that context Leeching does present some value.

    (Just my 2 cents. I'm in the no-beta club too)
    Quote Originally Posted by Revi View Post
    Stop equating casual to bad, they're two different things.
    Casual refers to time/effort spent.
    Bad refers to skill.
    Your English isn't casual, it's bad.

  13. #2913
    I think Leeching would be a much more viable talent if it healed you for all damage rather than just physical hits. As-is, the only spec I see ever even possibly using it is Combat, but even then its not likely.

  14. #2914
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    I think Leeching would be a much more viable talent if it healed you for all damage rather than just physical hits. As-is, the only spec I see ever even possibly using it is Combat, but even then its not likely.
    I dont see a point in the other two talents from a pve perspective. Maybe im just that good at avoiding raid dmg?

    Didnt they say a few months ago we'd be getting a new poison to replace the paralytic they took out? What happened with that?
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  15. #2915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambushu View Post
    I dont see a point in the other two talents from a pve perspective. Maybe im just that good at avoiding raid dmg?

    Didnt they say a few months ago we'd be getting a new poison to replace the paralytic they took out? What happened with that?
    Yes they did and then after a while, they said that we wouldn't be getting any new poisons.

  16. #2916
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambushu View Post
    I dont see a point in the other two talents from a pve perspective. Maybe im just that good at avoiding raid dmg?
    Cheat death allows for mistakes. Not just your mistakes - if your raid screws up a mechanic and 'kills' you, you're still fine with cheat death. Also, last phase of heroic garrosh its amazing for the fourth malice. Speccing Cheat Death allows you to do more fun/risky stuff during farm as well, such as never use feint, which is a slight dps increase.

    Meanwhile, Leeching Poison's heal is miniscule and makes literally no difference to healers. The damage reduction from elusiveness during a single big AoE will contribute more than Leeching Poison. Numbers and mechanics wise it is by far the worst talent in the row. There is no reason to ever use this talent in a max level raid, and there is a good chance the same will happen in WoD despite the buffs.

  17. #2917
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambushu View Post
    I dont see a point in the other two talents from a pve perspective. Maybe im just that good at avoiding raid dmg?
    Then there is even less of a reason to have elusiveness because what in the world are you reducing with it if you're avoiding the raid damage?

    Really elusiveness doesn't save you. It makes you easier to heal. For a small fraction of the time to a very small fraction of raiders, that is really nice. I honestly can't think of a single time in the last month (well longer really, but can't say my memory of farm content is clear that long) when elusiveness would have actually stopped me from getting killed. An extra 15% off of damage that is predictable to your healers too just doesn't end up making the life or death difference. CD definitely does though.

  18. #2918
    Quote Originally Posted by Raicky View Post
    This.

    They've stressed time and again that the healing model going into Warlords is not about huge spikes of raid damage like it was in Mists and the current healing model is not about keeping people topped. So if you look at it in that context Leeching does present some value.

    (Just my 2 cents. I'm in the no-beta club too)
    From what I've observed, whilst the damage isn't spikey for dps, it's predictable when it's going to occur and not often a continuous deal, which places Elusiveness a great deal ahead as always.
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  19. #2919
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    From what I've observed, whilst the damage isn't spikey for dps, it's predictable when it's going to occur and not often a continuous deal, which places Elusiveness a great deal ahead as always.
    Maybe. That depends on how healer mana is doing. If the damage isn't too spikey and your healers have plenty of mana, I'd say you are better off with CD by a large margin because taking 15% less from an AE is even less likely to save you from a killing blow than on live (which I think happens so infrequently that you might as well take CD even now).

  20. #2920
    Deleted
    None of your arguments are relevant, you cant simply justify neither of those talents, it all matters on playstyle and also the level of your raiding. So I wont bother with some encounter-specific arguments.

    My PoV on this is:

    As for mitigation, Elusiveness always wins. Some rogues like to use Cheat Death and persuade themselves, that not using what can be described as the single most broken mitigation mechanic currently ingame is somehow justified by this and they dont want to lose dps on feint also. Well, it isnt. You want to use feint anyway. And that extra mitigation isnt only from AE. In progression raiding where every bit of heal sometimes matter, you are stealing those bits of healing as a class that shouldnt need them (read: smart heal). Cheat death was nerfed to ground and it wont save you every time it procs thank to some encounter design. We are not in TBC, raids encounters are clusterfuck of flying dmg here and there. One second it procs, the other you are dead.

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