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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    -snip-
    There are tons of things to consider, but i like to talk in terms of fun. Being unable to use attacks in a spec based on fast gameplay is not fun at all (combat), but having to pool energy in a spec based on buff uptime is fun (assassination).

    In terms of fun, the jump from expansion end to start feels really bad, my point is not that we should be able to have as much energy regen as we do at end of expansion, but we shouldn't have to struggle with it as we do at start either. The middle ground is the right way: have enough baseline energy regeneration for each spec to make it feel fun and make haste have less impact on energy regen.

  2. #582
    Energy regen issues will never be touched as long as we have so much damage tied to auto attacks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    but having to pool energy in a spec based on buff uptime is fun (assassination).
    Not when you have to wait ten minutes for the pooling to occur.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2014-10-23 at 06:55 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    but having to pool energy in a spec based on buff uptime is fun (assassination).
    Not when you have to wait ten minutes for the pooling to occur.
    Exactly. That's why i say that baseline energy regeneration should be apropiate for each spec to provide a fun gameplay at any level or gear. Assassination simply doesn't need as much as combat, but it still needs some of it to be fun to play but if you get too much of it you'll miss the purpose of the spec's gameplay. Although i admit 'fun' is a very subjective term, i totally think FUN is the focus they should have when designing a class in a videogame.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2014-10-23 at 06:56 AM. Reason: fixed quotes

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    Exactly. That's why i say that baseline energy regeneration should be apropiate for each spec to provide a fun gameplay at any level or gear. Assassination simply doesn't need as much as combat, but it still needs some of it to be fun to play but if you get too much of it you'll miss the purpose of the spec's gameplay. Although i admit 'fun' is a very subjective term, i totally think FUN is the focus they should have when designing a class in a videogame.
    It would have been an interesting beta experiment to divorce energy regen from haste, and balance around using abilities at a rate regardless of level. Only thing is haste still has to be a worthwhile stat. Think it could survive with just increasing auto attacks? Kinda gets away from the whole "haste makes you do more things" that's present in other classes.

    It's more difficult when you're operating with no-CD abilities and at the bottom of the GCD initially. There's some room to fall for casters and melee like ret, but things easily turn spammy for us
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  5. #585
    how about a talent that gets rid of Vendetta , swaps it out with something interesting and makes envenom not hit like a wet noodle.

  6. #586
    Its a double edge sword really. To be honest we dodged many bullets due to our pretty tame talents. We are pretty much balanced without our talents even coming into play. They are literally tiny perks here and there or PVP utility. Is it exciting? No, not really. Is it bad, not exactly id say its actually good for us in WoD. No class is perfect, but at least we are 100% solid in all spec in both pvp and pve, ill take it for now.

  7. #587
    Stood in the Fire Thra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    Its a double edge sword really. To be honest we dodged many bullets due to our pretty tame talents. We are pretty much balanced without our talents even coming into play. They are literally tiny perks here and there or PVP utility. Is it exciting? No, not really. Is it bad, not exactly id say its actually good for us in WoD. No class is perfect, but at least we are 100% solid in all spec in both pvp and pve, ill take it for now.
    I agree, I'm happy with where the rogue is at the moment. Yes there are places that needed attention, but in comparison to other classes I play, rogues are fine.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenHolder View Post
    how about a talent that gets rid of Vendetta , swaps it out with something interesting and makes envenom not hit like a wet noodle.
    Vendetta needs improvement for sure. The perk for it doesn't improve the situation. I'm not sure why you feel Envenom hits like a wet noodle though. Admittedly I haven't tried it on lvl 90, but on lvl 100 it is your most damaging attack. And when I say that I'm not factoring in the buff that stays behind and increases your damage further. I did compare the min, max and avg hits between Mutilate, Dispatch and Envenom after after a run, and Envenom hits up to 20k harder than Dispatch, which hits for 30k. (Don't hold me on those numbers, but it was something in that ballpark for that run).

  9. #589
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by SynergyDarkstar View Post
    It would have been an interesting beta experiment to divorce energy regen from haste, and balance around using abilities at a rate regardless of level. Only thing is haste still has to be a worthwhile stat.
    I think the solution to this problem exists:
    haste would
    - speed up auto-attacks
    - increase energy regen by a smaller degree (like 25% of current effect)
    - speed up cooldown recovery rate in the same way as AoC does atm

    With proper balancing, haste could still be valuable stat but not cause problems in the late game content, making you wish you had 0.2s GCDs.

  10. #590
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorefel View Post
    I think the solution to this problem exists:
    haste would
    - speed up auto-attacks
    - increase energy regen by a smaller degree (like 25% of current effect)
    - speed up cooldown recovery rate in the same way as AoC does atm

    With proper balancing, haste could still be valuable stat but not cause problems in the late game content, making you wish you had 0.2s GCDs.
    So Haste will indeed fix it.

  11. #591
    Am I the only one noticing Crimson Tempest isn't benefiting from pandemic?

    If this is the case, unless I'm missing something, this is surely a bug that matters.

  12. #592
    The Lightbringer Artorius's Avatar
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    Isn't Crimson Tempest supposed to roll the damage?
    If it's rolling the damage of the previous CT accordingly, it's not supposed to extend the debuff duration.

    Edit: By extend I mean more than the normal duration, it's supposed to refresh it to the maximun duration of course.
    Last edited by Artorius; 2014-10-23 at 03:58 PM.

  13. #593
    Ah well you're probably right then, I was mainly referring to duration since that's what I noticed.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Vex View Post
    Vendetta needs improvement for sure. The perk for it doesn't improve the situation. I'm not sure why you feel Envenom hits like a wet noodle though. Admittedly I haven't tried it on lvl 90, but on lvl 100 it is your most damaging attack. And when I say that I'm not factoring in the buff that stays behind and increases your damage further. I did compare the min, max and avg hits between Mutilate, Dispatch and Envenom after after a run, and Envenom hits up to 20k harder than Dispatch, which hits for 30k. (Don't hold me on those numbers, but it was something in that ballpark for that run).

    I was reffering to at 90 and on players.

  15. #595
    Well there's 1 more month of 90 then.

  16. #596
    Am i the only one who loses deadly poison whenever i change a talent or glyph and simply hates it?
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  17. #597
    Me too, on both accounts.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
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    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  18. #598
    Only having 1 useful poison in PvE is so sad.. They really couldn't come up with more ideas for poisons? Just SOMETHING to apply to my off-hand that isn't totally useless


    Non-lethal poison: Your poison is now BLUE

    ANYTHING

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffah View Post
    Only having 1 useful poison in PvE is so sad.. They really couldn't come up with more ideas for poisons? Just SOMETHING to apply to my off-hand that isn't totally useless
    You don't apply poisons to your "offhand", it's always applied to both of your weapons. In fact, it's not really applied to your weapons at all, it's just a self buff that procs from weapon attacks.

  20. #600
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    You don't apply poisons to your "offhand", it's always applied to both of your weapons. In fact, it's not really applied to your weapons at all, it's just a self buff that procs from weapon attacks.
    He was refering to the "good" old times I guess

    Dunno, in comparison to my other toons I still like my rogue best. I only play PvE. We have insane survivability in raids, nice tools when being solo... and as good as no "hit a mole" cooldowns like retribution Paladins or many other specs.
    I guess our weak spots are really squishyness when soloing and talent choices.
    Anticipation, Shuriken Toss, Shadow Step could all be baseline for some specs. But some tiers really need a rework.

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