SR and Rupture

[Sanguinezor]

I can not for the life of me wrap my head around why Rupturing during SR would be a dps gain.

After SR drops so does the clone Rupture.

I could dance instead? and 1 x Ambush should cover the 2 ticks of rupture that i would get during SR.

Can someone fill me in on this puzzle?

[Rupenbritz]

You should always macro SD+SR together combined with any Use trinkets/pots.

You should time it so u refresh rupture just before your SD/SR

[Adoxe]

Only during burst (Ambush > Hemo > Shadow Reflection + Trinket > Rupture > Dance). In fight, you should avoid using anything but Ambush and Evis with Reflection up.

[Sanguinezor]

You should always macro SD+SR together combined with any Use trinkets/pots.

This is considered a dps loss

Rupture during SR is apparently Optimal use of SR but that is the question that is bugging me

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Shadow Reflection + Trinket > Rupture > Dance).

Why Rupture during SR?

[Adoxe]

This is considered a dps loss

Rupture during SR is apparently Optimal use of SR but that is the question that is bugging me

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Why Rupture during SR?

Rupture's dmg scales with the trinket, plus it's not on GCD. Even though it lasts only 8 seconds, it ticks at same time as your own, so basically its 2x Ruptures for the duration and that's quite a lot during burst. After that, however, it would be considered a DPS loss, so ideally you should avoid refreshing anything during Dance/Reflection.

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Also, you're gonna be using Rapture at the start anyways, might aswell get the extra 8 seconds of pure dmg.

[Sanguinezor]

Also, you're gonna be using Rapture at the start anyways, might aswell get the extra 8 seconds of pure dmg.

That is what i dont understand.
I can pool that 25 Energy + Arcane Torrent and get another Ambush in during SR instead of a Rupture.
If i am using it at the start of a fight then i will have Skull of War proc'ed/Pre-potted.

Eg. I will get a 2.6k Minimum ticking damage on Rupture.
2.6k x 4 ticks (assuming that 4th tick goes through) = 10400 damage (With Expose)
And Ambush minimum damage i am getting is = 11k+ non-crit (Without Expose armor)

Just seems to be a dps loss in my case

[Deleted]

I think Adoxe means u need to apply that Rupture in the beggining of fight anyway, seeing as how it's your strongest energy=dmg skill for subtlety, so using SR in the opening, followed by the Rupture, makes you gain 4 free ticks of Rupture, but later in fight u should avoid refreshing anything under Shadow Dance/Shadow Reflection since it's considered as DPS loss

[Sanguinezor]

I think Adoxe means u need to apply that Rupture in the beggining of fight anyway, seeing as how it's your strongest energy=dmg skill for subtlety, so using SR in the opening, followed by the Rupture, makes you gain 4 free ticks of Rupture, but later in fight u should avoid refreshing anything under Shadow Dance/Shadow Reflection since it's considered as DPS loss

I am aware of that but it is still a energy loss for my opener.
I assume it is maybe in regards to my racial but i dont feel that it is optimal opener yet i am being told it is.

4th tick of cloned Rupture might not even tick and then it would be a 3k damage decrease and a 25 energy loss

[Adoxe]

I am aware of that but it is still a energy loss for my opener.
I assume it is maybe in regards to my racial but i dont feel that it is optimal opener yet i am being told it is.

4th tick of cloned Rupture might not even tick and then it would be a 3k damage decrease and a 25 energy loss

It's free dmg, there's no wasted energy. You're gonna have to apply Rupture at the start anyways, might aswell do it together with the Reflection to get the extra FREE dmg. Unless you're not applying Rupture during the opener at the moment, which would be a huge mistake.

[Sanguinezor]

It's free dmg, there's no wasted energy. You're gonna have to apply Rupture at the start anyways, might aswell do it together with the Reflection to get the extra FREE dmg. Unless you're not applying Rupture during the opener at the moment, which would be a huge mistake.

Applying Rupture costs 25 Energy. I could apply it before SR.
Why are people saying that applying it during SR is a dps boost when the numbers are not adding up?

[T18Z]

Applying Rupture costs 25 Energy. I could apply it before SR.
Why are people saying that applying it during SR is a dps boost when the numbers are not adding up?

The clones rupture keeps ticking for the full duration, as a few people have observed and posted in a previous thread. Rupture is our strongest ability, so it makes sense to make sure we gain an extra full rupture during our burst. Read through some of the threads on Sub and you'll find the information.

Furthermore, applying shadow reflection + rupture > dance is optimal, at least in the opener, as it's pointless to cast a rupture while shadow dance is active if it can be cast 1 second earlier, allowing maximum use of ambushes for shadow dances full duration.

[Sanguinezor]

The clones rupture keeps ticking for the full duration, as a few people have observed and posted in a previous thread. Rupture is our strongest ability, so it makes sense to make sure we gain an extra full rupture during our burst. Read through some of the threads on Sub and you'll find the information.

Furthermore, applying shadow reflection + rupture > dance is optimal, at least in the opener, as it's pointless to cast a rupture while shadow dance is active if it can be cast 1 second earlier, allowing maximum use of ambushes for shadow dances full duration.

So it ticks for full duration regardless if SR is up and visible to the player?
If that is the case then SR/Rupture is priority off CD?
I have read that using Rupture in SR after opener is a dps loss but if it gets full 30 secs of invisible ticking damage then it would never be a dps loss?

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if it can be cast 1 second earlier, allowing maximum use of ambushes for shadow dances full duration.

This wouldnt maximize Ambushes in Dance, unless you have something that will restore 25 energy within that second

[PessimiStick]

So it ticks for full duration regardless if SR is up and visible to the player?

Correct.

E.x.: http://i.imgur.com/BmNqEVB.png

[shaithis]

Applying Rupture costs 25 Energy. I could apply it before SR.
Why are people saying that applying it during SR is a dps boost when the numbers are not adding up?

Applying Rupture costs combo points, but it does not cost Energy, see Relentless Strikes.

As for Rupture with SR, yes, but do not go out of your way except for the very first one (macro Rupture with SR or otherwise use during same GCD prior to dance, after that refresh when you need).

[Sanguinezor]

Correct.

E.x.: http://i.imgur.com/BmNqEVB.png

This.
Thank you

[Maelstrom51]

After SR drops so does the clone Rupture.

This actually isn't true.

The damage text goes away but the debuff and damage continues.