Resto Tier Set Bonuses

[Jayjayhey]

I'd like to have a discussion on these.

• Item - Druid T17 Restoration 2P Bonus - Nature's Swiftness now works on the next 3 spell casts.
• Item - Druid T17 Restoration 4P Bonus - When you cast 2 sequential Healing Touch spells, the mana cost of your next Wild Growth is reduced by 25%.

For me, these obviously go hand in hand. The 2 pce goes with our 4 pce here.

With the 2 pce, you can now cast 3 instant cast free heals in a row. Most likely, this is going to be Healing Touch because if you do use Healing Touch here, you can now active the 4 pce bonus, which..

gives us a mana reduced WG!

Now, ideally, we aim to cast WG when we can predict inc raid damage to prevent overhealing (such as force nova on IMP). Now, doesn't this make our 4 pce force us to have incredibly dumb luck?

For example, let's say you are doing a fight, and the tank is getting low. Your first instinct may be to pop your NS+HT. With our new tier sets, even with 1 NS your bonus is activated and you will def use another HT and now your mana-reduced WG is available to use. Well, what if no one in the raid is taking heavy damage at this time? How much time can we wait on for the WG usage? I hope it's longer than 10 secs, otherwise, what, we're just going to not use it? What if there's no raid damage for that period of time? Talk about a crappy bonus.

That makes me lead to think then should we now be using NS at all times right before inc raid damage on random people? What is the point of that? What if NS isn't needed to be used?

On top of all of this, NS has a 1 minute cooldown!

And now, what about SOTF? Is SOTF going to be the get go talent here now? Don't forget, NS has a 1 min cooldown. So chances are, you're only taking advantage of the 2 AND 4 piece between 5-10 times a fight.

All in all I think our 4 pce is pretty fucking bad, and even if used like I suggested above, it's all situational. It needs to be redone IMO.

[Stevecow]

I think the 2pc is awesome and the 4pc is shit and doesn't matter to me. I mean sure, they will work together just by playing the game but if I don't ever get a 4pc (which wont be the case) I wouldn't care. Make it 50% and suddenly the 4pc becomes interesting.

I'm not going to change my gameplay based on the encounter to get the most out of my 4pc.

[Keiyra]

...snip
Well, what if no one in the raid is taking heavy damage at this time? You are just going to cast WG for no reason?
What is the point of that? What if NS isn't needed to be used?

Then don't use them? Nothing is FORCING you to use NS if its not needed, nor should you cast WG if its not needed.

That being said, most of the time you can find a use for NS every 1-1.5 mins...with the 2pc you should still be able to cast the 2nd and 3rd casts on either of the tanks to make use of the free castss...and when that triggers the 4pc buff - IF you need to use WG, you can and it'll be cheaper. If you don't need to use WG...then you don't cast it and you don't use the 4pc proc.

You can force the 4pc proc anytime you want it..it's just easier and more efficient when it comes after the 2pc bonus, but its not required that you consume it.

The 2 piece bonus is decent and the 4pc is weak, since rarely will we choose to HT twice just for a cost reduction on WG (an exception might be a fight like imperator where mana really matters...i could see that being used there).

Don't get trapped into thinking the use of one (2pc) demands the use of the other (4pc).
Use NS when its smart - if that should happen to be followed by a smart time to cast WG, go for it, but don't blindly cast WG regardless if its not needed - that's just wasting (reduced) mana to use a crap bonus.

[Jayjayhey]

with the 2pc you should still be able to cast the 2nd and 3rd casts on either of the tanks to make use of the free castss...and when that triggers the 4pc buff - IF you need to use WG, you can and it'll be cheaper. If you don't need to use WG...then you don't cast it and you don't use the 4pc proc.

So with that reasoning, if a 4 piece set bonus procs, you don't have to use it. Sorry, but that to me sounds like a FAIL bonus.

You can force the 4pc proc anytime you want it..it just easier and more efficient when it comes from the 2pc proc but its not required.

It is required when using glyphed regrowth, and a LARGE portion of druids use.

[Keiyra]

So with that reasoning, if a 4 piece set bonus procs, you don't have to use it. Sorry, but that to me sounds like a FAIL bonus.

Its called a situational bonus, which would be ok if it was strong. In this case its not, its a very weak bonus, fail as you put it...not the first time that has happened though. You seem as if you expect all tier bonuses to be wonderful :P - we are talking blizzard here.

It is required when using glyphed regrowth, and a LARGE portion of druids use.

I don't understand, what about having glyphed regrowth has anything to do with requiring you to consume the 4pc proc after having used the 2pc bonus?

[Jayjayhey]

you said 2 piece is not required to proc the 4 piece, why would I use healing touch without NS to proc the 4 piece when using glyphed regrowth?

[Skyfall]

you said 2 piece is not required to proc the 4 piece, why would I use healing touch without NS to proc the 4 piece when using glyphed regrowth?

Because Regrowth does not proc the 4 piece. And even if it did, HT can conserve mana, since its so much cheaper...

[Deleted]

Haven't checked the 4p buff duration, but assuming it's fairly long, you can just keep hardcasting HTs to keep the buff going for when you really need to cast a WG. Sure, the two bonuses CAN work, and probably quite well but I still think I'm going to stay with NS+ glyphed RG and hardcasting HT to get the 4p reduction to WG.

Purposely using three, or atleast two, NS+HT casts JUST to get the buff to WG is not something I'd be using. Three free NS+RGs, useable at my disposal - awesome. Wasting two of those for a 25% reduction to WG isn't awesome.

[Keiyra]

you said 2 piece is not required to proc the 4 piece, why would I use healing touch without NS to proc the 4 piece when using glyphed regrowth?

Possible reason #1 - you wish to make use of the 4pc bonus while NS is on CD
Possible reason #2 - for shits and giggles.

I'm not saying you SHOULD hard cast HT twice for the 4pc - the fact that we hardly would ever do that is part of what makes the bonus so weak.
All I said is NS isn't REQUIRED, as in it is not the only way, to trigger the 4pc. Reading comprehension ftw

[Jayjayhey]

Because Regrowth does not proc the 4 piece.

Obviously it doesn't. But I'm not going to be hardcasting healing touch without NS to proc my 4 piece when I don't do that already in my rotation because I have glyphed RG. That is absurd.

[Deleted]

If ur spamming out glyphed Regrowths your not as worried about conserving mana, so full cost WG. It's cheaper when ur playing it safe with mana and using HT more, add in a HT glyph to lower NS CD to save even more. Seems to fit the new healing model. Not the greatest/most powerful 4pc ever designed but it's not a set bonus that's gonna completely change your playstyle. More interesting than say a 10% boost to rejuv. Means set peices are not the be all and end all of your gear, and can use the socketed warforged bits instead on fights that your not concerned about mana.

[Deleted]

SotF plus glyphs of rejuv/ht/wg plus 4set :>
so i got three rj rolling, if i cast ns i get my two ht, which in turn lower the cd of ns, i swiftmend and then i use my cheap sotf wild growth, then i can cast 2 quick hts until I... wait where was I?

Hmm, makes setting up wg pretty convenient: NS HT HT RG SM WG :>
If only I didn't hate HT as much as I do... this would make for a somewhat complex interaction.

[nightfalls]

The 2 piece is fine.

The 4 piece is incredibly awful. The reduction to WG is extremely small especially when compared to something like shaman or paladin 4pc, and the fact that druid uses a lot more mana to begin with than the two aforementioned classes.

Casting 2 sequential (meaning, if you use anything in between two HT hard casts, it's reset and you get nothing) HT's is frivolous at best, and leads to mana LOSSES at worst (since you are using shitty abilities, you have to dump more mana to make up for it). It works against the current DoC playstyle for a WG heavy build, since hard casting HT (forced to get the bonus) will negate the value of our 90 talents.

NS is nearly always best used on Regrowth versus HT, so you are suffering a worse NS to proc the WG cost reduction if you use the 2pc for it, which diminishes the (already small) value of the mana reduction even more.

The bonuses work extremely poorly with Glyph of Healing Touch, because ONLY hard cast HT will reduce the cooldown of NS.

What needs to be done, in order of best to worst suggestions:

1) Replace the bonus completely. My suggestion, at the cost of the 2pc/4pc interaction which has been a theme of the tier, is to allow WG to have its cost reduced by Clearcasting. Another good possibility would be to allow WG to be used with NS, possibly with consuming multiple stacks (remember, if you have 4pc, you automatically have 2pc so you automatically have multiple stacks).

2) Remove the requirement for 2 back to back HT's, and instead make it 2 HT's within a 5-10 second window.

3) Increase the mana bonus on WG back to 50%.

[Hypasonic]

4 set is really crap, they should just make NS work with WG, now that would be somewhat worth going for. I mean, mana cost reductions that require you to cast other spells before are always generally crap. (Too gimmicky) Like, give us something like holy priests.....

SotF plus glyphs of rejuv/ht/wg plus 4set :>
so i got three rj rolling, if i cast ns i get my two ht, which in turn lower the cd of ns, i swiftmend and then i use my cheap sotf wild growth, then i can cast 2 quick hts until I... wait where was I?

Hmm, makes setting up wg pretty convenient: NS HT HT RG SM WG :>
If only I didn't hate HT as much as I do... this would make for a somewhat complex interaction.

NS doesn't start its CD untill all charges are consumed.

[Deleted]

:/ so 2-set it is
i kinda liked the idea of how much interaction there is between the spells, but yeah, you're right. At one point the bonuses you get merely make up the losses you get for using shit spells.

[Tiberria]

The 4 piece is unbelievably awful, especially compared to the 4 piece that every other healer gets. Not only do you have to use what is almost always a suboptimal rotation to activate it (how often do you actually want to use 2 HT in a row), you are actually spending 6600 mana on those 2xHT to save ~3000 mana off WG. In doing so, you are losing HPM by casting those HT in the first place over casting Rejuv (or even DoC Wrath or something if you want to bank mana). Even if you only activate the 4 piece bonus with the 2 piece up, you are still losing much of the HPM that you gain by being forced to use 2 of your 3 NS procs on HT over RG.

The only thing they can do to salvage the set bonus is to make it proc off 2 consecutive Rejuvs, Regrowths and HTs, not just 2 HTs. If they want to stay with HT as the trigger, they need to increase the value of the set bonus to make it actually worth activating. They would need to make it reduce the WG cost by 50% and possibly even 75% before it would be worth using.

[KrinKer]

Actually to make it good they need to change it to after 2 consecutive casts (Ht, Rg or even wrath (which would tie in pretty well with Doc + sotf + RG build)) it reduces mana from WG by 25%

as is, only only it once a minute with the 2pc it's still roughly 250 Mp5 ...

[Tiberria]

Actually to make it good they need to change it to after 2 consecutive casts (Ht, Rg or even wrath (which would tie in pretty well with Doc + sotf + RG build)) it reduces mana from WG by 25%

as is, only only it once a minute with the 2pc it's still roughly 250 Mp5 ...

Even doing it once a minute with the 2 piece up is a fairly significant throughput loss, because even unglyphed Regrowth is close to 60% more healing per cast than Healing Touch when you factor in the Crit bonus plus Living Seed. It would be arguable even then if getting the 4 piece is worth it, especially if you can get better itemization on offset pieces.

[Thalur]

after 2 consecutive casts

Does anyone remember for sure from beta (or PTR) that you need two consecutive HT casts to activate the buff? I tested this on beta and I'm not sure if my memory is wrong but as far as I remember, the two casts didn't need to be consecutive. (The tooltip seems to indicate they need to be, but isn't 100% clear either.) But then it also used to reduce mana cost by 50%...

[Deleted]

On ptr it is (99.9% sure) consecutive (played yesterday, char copy from eu server). You get a buff after your first ht that does nothing - it's for tracking purposes i guess. Whatever you cast next, this buff gets dropped. If you cast a second ht it gets replaced by another buff (the cost reduction one, 15ish seconds duration). If you cast anything else the functionless buff will just drop.
You can 'bank' both types at the same time. No idea why one would wanna do that though