Shouldn't ChiEx also be buffed by 10%?

[Saverem]

If they're buffing BOK by 10%, how would this effect the desirability of ChiEx as a BrM/WW?


Would ChiEx still be desired over the other 2 talent choices?

[Noruego]

ChiEx does AoE damage and will still be superior in that regard.

[Deleted]

Unless i am mistaken, WW already have great cleave.
So why buff them further in that regard?

[Saverem]

Unless i am mistaken, WW already have great cleave.
So why buff them further in that regard?

I meant buff its single target component, they can leave the AoE component the same damage.

[Babylonius]

I meant buff its single target component, they can leave the AoE component the same damage.

If you check out the WW sticky where this is talked about ad nauseum. This change is designed to spread the gap between serenity and CX single target, not buff our cleave. It would be much more difficult to balance if they split up the ST and AOE parts of CX since they are both the same thing currently. The goal wasn't to just increase WW damage, it was to increase Serenity's damage so that CX was less desirable in single target situations.

Serenity was always going to do more damage than CX single target, but people were taking it because it had the higher "theoretical, everything goes perfectly" DPS, was generally smoother and easier to use, and allowed for Haste set ups and more damage on cleave/AOE. This change will make Serenity back to being roughly 10% ahead of CX, but won't change the fact that its smoother, works with a haste set up, and (if you have the luckiest streak ever) CAN(tm) do more damage than Serenity.

Think CX has the slightly higher maximum but noticeably lower average. Serenity has the higher average but slightly lower "stars-align" maximum.

[Shibito]

Unless i am mistaken, WW already have great cleave.
So why buff them further in that regard?

Great can be GREATLY discussed.

[Woobels]

Isn't this buff already pretty over the top? Like I'm not sure so feel free to correct but these buffs seem like a little much to me.
Buffing ChiEx would be against the point like Babylonius said but also probably push us even further over the edge?

[Babylonius]

Yeah, buffing CX would take our already super strong cleave and push it into the ridiculous level.

[Notter]

Keep in mind, even if you use ChiX, you're still getting buffed.
Since you'll get more dps out of FoF, RSK and Tiger Palm.

And on fights where we can cleave with Chix, WW is usually pretty high (and on council probably highest).
So buffing ChiX too, would make monks too strong where they are already doing well.
but still, with this you'll be able to do slightly better even on those fights.

[Slappadappa]

Great can be GREATLY discussed.

WW is flat out the best at cleave

[Saverem]

Everyone's only talking about ChiX and Serenity, what about Hurricane Strike?

Is that ability so far behind the other two that it isn't even worth consideration? How is it for PvP at least?

[Babylonius]

Everyone's only talking about ChiX and Serenity, what about Hurricane Strike?

Is that ability so far behind the other two that it isn't even worth consideration? How is it for PvP at least?

They're talking about Chi Ex and Serenity because this is a thread about the two of them. Its not worth considering for PvE but I think for PvP it is viable as a burst CD, but I'm sure that answer is somewhere findable on the forums.

[Saverem]

They're talking about Chi Ex and Serenity because this is a thread about the two of them.

Not really, when I made this thread it was only supposed to be about ChiEx. Never mentioned anything about Serenity.

Edit: In fact, ironically, you are the person who brought Serenity into the thread.

[Xiaojin]

TBH I'd love to see a buff to ChiEx "base" damage (to damage you get from you 1+ chi effect) while seeing a nerf to the 4 chi effect at the same time such that our single target damage with ChiEx improves while cleave/AoE stays the same. I'd really like to see the choice between our Lv100 talents become a choice between playstyles and not a choice between what fits a given raid encounter the most (single target vs. cleave/AoE).

In terms of pure class balance, i.e., if you expect monks to switch their Lv100 talent around between encounters, no buff to ChiEx is necessary. Maybe even a slight nerf to it or better yet to SEF instead because I think that's the real source of our cleave strength. Though I'm not really sure if we're still ahead of other classes in that regard. I don't think so TBH but I have to admit I haven't been paying too much attention to that niche in the past couple of months.

[Babylonius]

Not really, when I made this thread it was only supposed to be about ChiEx. Never mentioned anything about Serenity.

Edit: In fact, ironically, you are the person who brought Serenity into the thread.

If you never mentioned Serenity, then what other talents are you talking about when you said:

Would ChiEx still be desired over the other 2 talent choices?

[Enpoli]

I'd really like to see the choice between our Lv100 talents become a choice between playstyles and not a choice between what fits a given raid encounter the most (single target vs. cleave/AoE).

They're within ~10% right now. It's probably closer to equal than it has ever been (besides 6.1). If you prefer CX, then just keep it that way and you'll be fine.

[Xiaojin]

Well, HFC overall favors ChiEx anyway, but a 10% difference is pretty significant. If it was more like 1-2% it wouldn't bother me (despite raiding Mythic ) but unfortunately the difference is higher than that.

What really worries me is that Blizzard might not only continue down this path in Legion, they may even get the idea to emphasize the difference between "Chi Brew/Serentiy for Single Target, Ascension/Chi Explosion for Cleave/AoE" even more. And in a tier that is not as cleave-heavy as HFC that would really start to bother me. In general it doesn't bother me having to optimize my talents for an encounter but I don't want to switch stuff around that changes gameplay as much as Serenity vs. ChiEx do. Especially when I really prefer one over the other.

[Saverem]

If you never mentioned Serenity, then what other talents are you talking about when you said:

Serenity.... AND... wait for it.... Hurricane Strike! :P

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They're within ~10% right now. It's probably closer to equal than it has ever been (besides 6.1). If you prefer CX, then just keep it that way and you'll be fine.

I tried going back to BOK with Hurricane Strike and couldn't do it. I missed ChiX too much and ended up switching back. Can't underestimate the 30 yard range it gives you for Ashran PvP.