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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Confessions carry much the same weight among those who practice that faith as visits to a Psychiatrist would to others, and a Priest who violates the confidentiality might not be trusted again by their community even if they get a criminal confession from it.
    If I go to a psychiatrist and admit to a crime, that admission is not protected by doctor-patient privilege. My doctor would be obligated to tell me to turn myself in to law enforcement or, at some point, to report me him/herself.

    "Religious freedom" is not absolute. Just as a man who kills someone because "God said to do it" is not protected by the first amendment, neither should be criminals who admit to felonies in confession. But in this case, it wasn't even an admission of guilt that this priest swept under the rug; it was a plea for help from the victim.

    First the church failed this young woman. Then the courts did as well.
    Last edited by Kaeth; 2016-03-15 at 07:55 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Yeah, because Stalin, Mao, and Hitler did so much for atheism.

    INB4 hitler was catholic.
    Hitler was the original animal rights founder. The guy didn't like to harm animals, which is ironic. I think he was a vegetarian also.

  3. #43
    time to get ride of religion

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    time to get ride of religion
    Stuff like this scares the hell out of me. Huge tragedies in the world happened because someone, instead of trying to understand, tackle the problem and fixing things, decided to go the simple way of "let's get rid of xxx".
    Last edited by procne; 2016-03-15 at 08:00 AM.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  5. #45
    They should be required to report the same things a therapist is require to report. And that includes child abuse.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    Stuff like this scares the hell out of me. Huge tragedies in the world happened because someone, instead of trying understanding, tackling the problem and fixing things decided to go the simple way of "let's get rid of xxx".
    Especially when considering all the good religion has done (note, I'm not saying that negative things haven't occurred in the name of religion).
    Last edited by medievalman1; 2016-03-15 at 08:04 AM.

  7. #47
    I would be in favor of execution for child molesters, if its proven I say get rid of them.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Yeah, because Stalin, Mao, and Hitler did so much for atheism.

    INB4 hitler was catholic.
    Lets compare 4 people that did bad vs a whole damn church that rapes little boys on a daily basis.

    Good job

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeth View Post
    If I go to a psychiatrist and admit to a crime, that admission is not protected by doctor-patient privilege. My doctor would be obligated to tell me to turn myself in to law enforcement or, at some point, to report me him/herself.
    I'll admit my ignorance when I say I wasn't actually aware of this. Thank you for the correction.

    Still, reading the rest of the posts here I'm feeling more inclined to side with my first 'People who with-hold information about serious crimes are jerks' statement.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    Lets compare 4 people that did bad vs a whole damn church that rapes little boys on a daily basis.

    Good job
    Yep, 1.254 billion child rapists. 'Cause THAT'S not hyperbole.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by medievalman1 View Post
    Especially when considering all the good religion has done (note, I'm not saying that negative things have occurred in the name of religion).
    Why not, they did. People have used religion on their banners for ages to lead people to do bad stuff.
    Same with justice, security or prosperity.

    But it's not the issue of religion itself but of the people. Simple, impatient, angry, scared, or greedy people.

    It was always the case of "they're the problem, let's get rid of it", whether it was said in the name of religion or not.
    Last edited by procne; 2016-03-15 at 08:08 AM.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    Why not, they did. People have used religion on their banners for ages to lead people to do bad stuff.
    Same with justice, security or prosperity.

    But it's not the issue of religion itself but of the people. Simple, impatient, angry, scared people
    corrected myself, meant to type "haven't", not have. I fully recognize that bad things have been done in the name of religion. But that can be said about pretty much anything. You're spot on with the above bolded portion.

  13. #53
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: No religious exemptions to laws, ever. If you can get away with anything in the name of religion, the law might as well not exist, due to there being no restrictions on what constitutes a religion.

    Blanket statements aside and getting into the specific incident, this is obstruction of justice. You're saying if my friend comes to me and says "dude, I just killed a man, what do I do?!" it's completely lawful for me to lie to the police and say I don't know anything about it? It was a private confession, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by medievalman1 View Post
    Yep, 1.254 billion child rapists. 'Cause THAT'S not hyperbole.
    Yeah, if he's going to criticize the church, he should at least be accurate. To my knowledge, the Catholic church continues to harbor pedophiles, shuffling them quietly to other churches after enough incidents force them to take action. I do not know if Pope Francis has made any significant dent against this practice in recent years.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2016-03-15 at 08:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    I'm of two minds of this.

    On the one hand: Failure to report a crime like this is kind of a dick move by the standards of your average person.

    On the other: Confessions carry much the same weight among those who practice that faith as visits to a Psychiatrist would to others, and a Priest who violates the confidentiality might not be trusted again by their community even if they get a criminal confession from it.

    So... Yeah. Not sure what else to add.
    Doctors have a legal obligation to report to the authorities if they have reason to suspect a patient is a danger to themselves or others. At least that's what I remember my shrink telling me as a kid. Priestly confidentiality is much the same as doctoral, at least in spirit (so to speak), so I can't imagine there not being some legal framework in there somehow.

    Further than that, I can't imagine a moral imperative to not report abuse in this context. Possible excommunication, or passive accomplice to any number of possibly horrible crimes.

    Easy choice for me. Then again, I'm not a Priest.
    Last edited by RaoBurning; 2016-03-15 at 08:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is America. We always have warm dead bodies.
    if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.

  15. #55
    Nice to see the morality of the church is more concerned about its image than helping child who are molested.

  16. #56
    I would hope any kid would be able to talk to their parents about something like this, or get help from a friend, teacher or anyone really.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili Mooneye View Post
    Thoughts on this?
    Concession and respect toward religion by the government is shameful and backwards. These organizations should not be given any special exemption under the law; if tolerated at all. Religious figures should not enjoy the confidentiality of doctors, lawyers, psychiatrists, etc.

    Religion and superstition are the most ruinous ideas of humanity; tolerance of such is to our collective detriment.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    I would hope any kid would be able to talk to their parents about something like this, or get help from a friend, teacher or anyone really.
    And there are a lot of psychological and social pressures that prevent such a thing from actually happening. In an ideal world, a kid would just waddle up to the nearest authority figure and let them know bad shit's going down, but oftentimes abusers hold quite a bit of power over the one being abused (Kids are especially vulnerable to this) and it makes it much more difficult for the kid to come clean at all.

    So, yeah, with Child abuse you take the leads you can get.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Confession is between the priest, the confessor, and God, not the State. To require the priests to violate a key portion of their faith runs afoul of the freedom of religion.
    There is no god. So confession is just two people talking. Every human should have an equal responsibility to report child abuse.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor With a Saber View Post
    That is stupid as hell. The Church already has the longest list in history of child abuse and now they give them the all clear on reporting child abuse done by their flock. This is wrong.
    This would certainly help the church accomplish what I mentioned earlier. They learn about the pedophile when a kid comes crying into confession, (or the pedophile themselves) then they can shuffle the abuser out to another church and the congregation is none the wiser.

    Obstruction of justice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

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