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  1. #181
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    Soo Turkey who is suspected of funding Isis gets hit by oppressed and marginalised kurds who captured sadam husein and Osama's messenger . This sounds like domestic violence to me at most. Since Kurds don't have their own country because the countries that keep them in now, refused it and now are treating them like shit. You reap what you sow.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by GrinningMan View Post
    That dude going #Hashtag... he must be an MMO-C poster. :P
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  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Heh View Post
    Soo Turkey who is suspected of funding Isis gets hit by oppressed and marginalised kurds who captured sadam husein and Osama's messenger . This sounds like domestic violence to me at most. Since Kurds don't have their own country because the countries that keep them in now, refused it and now are treating them like shit. You reap what you sow.
    Same thing can be said for every country. France ripped what they sow by marginalizing Muslims and allowing the formation of Muslim ghettos.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Same thing can be said for every country. France ripped what they sow by marginalizing Muslims and allowing the formation of Muslim ghettos.
    lol, are you serious?

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Same thing can be said for every country. France ripped what they sow by marginalizing Muslims and allowing the formation of Muslim ghettos.
    Well, technically there is a difference. Muslims moved to France voluntarily. Presumably because they wanted a better life. Now that they're there, they're ripping parts of it apart? That's being a very naughty house guest. Unlike the Kurds, who apparently belong where they are, geographically. It's just that some arbitrarily drawn lines tell them they're Turkish instead of Kurdish.
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  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well, technically there is a difference. Muslims moved to France voluntarily. Presumably because they wanted a better life. Now that they're there, they're ripping parts of it apart? That's being a very naughty house guest. Unlike the Kurds, who apparently belong where they are, geographically. It's just that some arbitrarily drawn lines tell them they're Turkish instead of Kurdish.
    No, what I mean is that they attacked France because France marginalized and isolated them in ghettos with poor integration policies. Thus, terrorist were able to organize easily in France. Why two incidents in France not even one in Germany? You ripp what you saw is pretty much determinism and everyone is subject to it.

    As for this post, historical claims are, well, historic. From a philospophical perspective, the only difference between seperatist Kurds in Turkey and hypethetical-seperatist-Turks in Germany would be the time difference between settlement. Everyone came from somewhere, and the origin is Africa. So historical claims are neither pragmatically nor philosophically legitimate. Besides, the # of historic Kurdish cities in Turkey is 4, 5 at best. However, Kurds are now majority in more cities than their so-called "historic" cities. Rest of the Eastern Turkey is historic, and by historic, I mean ancient, Armenian cities. Van, back-then Armenian, now Kurdish city, comes into mind. It is also included hypothetical Kurdistan maps.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2016-03-15 at 12:57 PM.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    No, what I mean is that they attacked France because France let them marginalize and isolate in ghettos with poor integration policies. Thus, terrorist were able to organize easily in France. Why two incidents in France not even one in Germany? You ripp what you saw is pretty much determinism and everyone is subject to it.

    As for this post, historical claims are, well, historic. From a philospophical perspective, the only difference between seperatist Kurds in Turkey and hypethetical-seperatist-Turks in Germany would be the time difference between settlement. Everyone came from somewhere, and the origin is Africa. So historical claim is invalid. Besides, the historic Kurdish cities are 4, 5 at best. However, Kurds are now majority in more than their so-called "historic" land. Rest of the Eastern Turkey is historic, and by historic, I mean ancient, Armenian cities.
    France have a bad history with Islam and foreign politics involving Islam.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Same thing can be said for every country. France ripped what they sow by marginalizing Muslims and allowing the formation of Muslim ghettos.
    Wrong. The dude the OP quoted wants to put kurds in the same pot as fucking ISIS. France was attacked by ISIS a global terrorist threat, Turkey was blown up by their own oppressed people. I doubt the Kurds would attack random countries around the world. It's like if America rounded up the Mexicans and treated them like shit the mexicans did some shit and wow , they are like isis, watch out world! It's sad what happened in Ankara no doubt, but don't put the people that have fought against osama and are fighting against isis , in the same boast as them.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Heh View Post
    Wrong. The dude the OP quoted wants to put kurds in the same pot as fucking ISIS. France was attacked by ISIS a global terrorist threat, Turkey was blown up by their own oppressed people. I doubt the Kurds would attack random countries around the world. It's like if America rounded up the Mexicans and treated them like shit the mexicans did some shit and wow , they are like isis, watch out world! It's sad what happened in Ankara no doubt, but don't put the people that have fought against osama and are fighting against isis , in the same boast as them.
    Wrong. Europe colonized ME, drew artificial borders to cause unrest also, since 2003, Sunni Arabs are being oppressed because of the policies implemented by Wester powers. This is, in fact, what created ISIS. West created ISIS. Determinism is a strong argumentation tool.

    PKK and ISIS are same. In fact, PKK is probobably worse as their sociological foundatation and logistics/revenue is more sustainable compared to ISIS. The only difference is PKK is not a threat to USA, Russia or EU, ISIS is. This shouldn't require mental power over 9k to see.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2016-03-15 at 01:07 PM.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    This is a fair comment. The idea that a life in France is more important than a life in Turkey is really sad and really racist.
    Its not really sad nor racists. Its just shows who you feel connected too. I will always say, that for me, a life which belongs to a friend, is much more important then a life of a person i dont know. That is why i dont feel much sadness when i think of turkey. I am connected to a place like Charlie Hebdo, not Ankara. And there is nothing wrong with showing your personal affinity in that.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Wrong. Europe colonized ME, drew artificial borders to cause unrest also, since 2003, Sunni Arabs are being oppressed because of the policies implemented by Wester powers. This is, in fact, what created ISIS. West created ISIS. Determinism is a strong argumentation tool.

    PKK and ISIS are same. In fact, PKK is probobably worse as their sociological foundatation and logistics/revenue is more sustainable compared to ISIS. The only difference is PKK is not a threat to USA, Russia or EU, ISIS is. This shouldn't require mental power over 9k to see.
    Question is. Without artificial borders would it be better? What do you propose as alternative - One big country? Each group own country? Would is be more peaceful in such scenarios or someone would still want to oppress others or step out of his small country and create it bigger?

    We hear that all the time that West caused this by artificial borders but haven't heard any real solution to fix this.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Unionoob View Post
    Question is. Without artificial borders would it be better? What do you propose as alternative - One big country? Each group own country? Would is be more peaceful in such scenarios or someone would still want to oppress others or step out of his small country and create it bigger?

    We hear that all the time that West caused this by artificial borders but haven't heard any real solution to fix this.
    I think what you are asking is first too complex, thus too long to answer and irrelevant to this topic. I wrote that post, not to shit on Colonial powers but to prove a point; oppression breeds terrorism and ISIS is product of oppression.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Unionoob View Post
    Question is. Without artificial borders would it be better? What do you propose as alternative - One big country? Each group own country? Would is be more peaceful in such scenarios or someone would still want to oppress others or step out of his small country and create it bigger?

    We hear that all the time that West caused this by artificial borders but haven't heard any real solution to fix this.
    Artificial borders are fine, but with that has to come an acceptance that borders should also be fluid and reflect changing realities on the ground, instead of holding up "territorial integrity" as some kind of ultimate ideal that needs to be defended at all costs. For the most part national borders have basically been frozen in the same places they were 70 years ago, but it's not like the configuration of that day was really any more logical or natural than any other arbitrary assignment.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akakishin View Post
    Relevancy is that his supporters are "The majority"! that says alot. 50% percent of them support him directly and half of the other half support someone if not worse, equal to him. Cool individual turkish friends that we all might have are the minority and even tho we might care about their safety or ppl like them, doesn't mean it should cover the country. It might look like a politic argument to you but it's the ppl that support parties. Caring about a country that is filled with extreme nationalists that support Erdogan or any other extremist should be something hard for all of us imho.
    So you're saying because I hate on Erdogan, that it's okay that I should hate on the people who have put him in that position too, rather than separate them as I have? I can sort of see that, but I don't feel like that's how it really works. Having a single largest group of support doesn't always mean a majority of support either, I only have to look at my own government for that. Throw in his own control of the media and strongarm tactics, it becomes even more murky still.

    I mean, really until a couple of years ago, I, and I'm sure many others just felt Turkey was that edge of Europe (and it absolutely is a part of Europe that forms the land-bridge to Asia) with cheap package holidays, kebabs, overly-friendly people, and violent Fenerbache and Galatasaray supporters; I've known a fair few Turks, it's not like there aren't many ex-pats over here, and generally unless they told you, you probably wouldn't have really known or cared. That's why I find what's happening over there politically so weird; why they seem suddenly do intent on emphasising a divide from Europe that hasn't been much in the rest of European consciousness for generations; and worse that the right here are seizing on that as well.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    Artificial borders are fine, but with that has to come an acceptance that borders should also be fluid and reflect changing realities on the ground, instead of holding up "territorial integrity" as some kind of ultimate ideal that needs to be defended at all costs. For the most part national borders have basically been frozen in the same places they were 70 years ago, but it's not like the configuration of that day was really any more logical or natural than any other arbitrary assignment.
    To change that you have to eradicate anything what would relate people with country, eradicate any nationalism make people to stop being proud of there country, country sportsman, stop peploe from displaying country flags and not just in one country but in whole world. That includes Russia, USA, Canada, Germany, Japan, Syria, Turkey, South Korea. We would have to see world as one big country but unless we will have anything from before mentioned then nothing will change.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akakishin View Post
    Relevancy is that his supporters are "The majority"! that says alot. 50% percent of them support him directly and half of the other half support someone if not worse, equal to him. Cool individual turkish friends that we all might have are the minority and even tho we might care about their safety or ppl like them, doesn't mean it should cover the country. It might look like a politic argument to you but it's the ppl that support parties. Caring about a country that is filled with extreme nationalists that support Erdogan or any other extremist should be something hard for all of us imho.
    It is important to note that half of the country didn't vote for them, he is really creating a major division it seems. The ironic part is if you look at his voters responses after the recent election victory they believe Erdogan is uniting them all, which couldn't be further from the truth.

    Damn i really wish i knew the name of the turkish PM that did something similar and also managed to inflict a lot of harm, it's important to note that due to economic successes erdogan got originally kept in power, his conservative stances started to show more later on but were tolerated however people should have gotten the hint when he wanted to allow religious objects again in universities. And his economic strengths are being hit now, Russia is doing a major boycott and stopping all major plans they had in Turkey and now with all the constant terrorists attacks their tourist sector will also be hit hard upcoming season.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    lol, are you serious?
    Look at how Canada treats its immigrants. They are part of society. Canada lets them succeed.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Did the Turkish people come out in droves to support France? And was it a European suicide bomber?

    These situations are not equivalent in the public eye, and neither should they be; to suggest so is to oversimplify. While the deaths of civilians is always tragic, making an automatic appeal to hypocrisy in an attempt to gain sympathy comes off as manipulative at best.
    Uh, yes they did. They had the same mass demonstrations on squares in the most populated cities you saw everywhere else.

    And what the hell are you trying to say by asking if it was a European suicide bomber? Was it a Turkish terrorist carrying out the attacks against Charlie Hebdo or Paris later in the year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    You know, Now that my name found its way into your mouth and you decided to spew shit everywhere I want to know why there are Turkish troops still in Cyprus? Care to explain? and You've got me thinking, I probably should find out more about these Kurds and why you continue to attack them, maybe they hate ISIS and since it appears that your government is helping them they see you as the fucking enemy, but that might be wrong so I'll have to look into that.
    Well, first of all I'm not Turkish and I don't live in Turkey so there's no "your government" or "you" here if you're talking about Turks. Why there are Turkish troops in Cyprus? Read up on the history of the island and it becomes pretty apparent. Turkey invaded to protect the Turkish minority in Cyprus and subsequently occupied the northern half of the island for it. That is after years of the Greek majority policies trying to limit the rights of Turkish Cypriots and trying to make Cyprus become part of Greece. It's slightly comparable to what Russia did with Crimea last year.

    As to why the Turkish government attacks "Kurds" (they don't attack Kurds, they attack Kurdish terrorists), maybe it's because they are a bunch of terrorists and have been so for decades? There was a ceasefire for a pretty decent time and they were having peace talks. They (PKK) started crying when Turkey didn't want to get involved in the defense of Kurdish villages by said terrorist organisation outside of the Turkish border against ISIS and this subsequently led to PKK picking up their old ways of terrorizing Turkey again and Turkey responding with force. The majority of Kurds are not involved with the PKK nor do they support it. Funnily enough Erdogan's party actually got huge amounts of votes from Kurds in previous elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I stand with the people of Turkey against violence and terrorist attacks, absolutely. Je Suis Ankara.

    They had little or no involvement in the actions of their government regarding the Kurds or Syria, and it's wrong to blame them for either as a result.

    With that said - it's obviously deceptive political maneuvering by the Turkish politicians in Ankara to equate this: when they play an active role in instigating violence between Turkey / Kurds, and Turkey / Syrian rebel factions. Paris is being targeted because it's idyllic, it represents what the terrorists lack, but Ankara is being targeted because it's meant to frighten Turkey's politicians. It's like the difference between an attack on New York versus an attack on Washington, DC - the same could be said for Istanbul versus Ankara.
    Istanbul was attacked earlier this year with mostly tourists as casualties and people didn't say shit about that either really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Doubtful. From Wikipedia about "Je suis Charlie": President of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdoğan stated that the cartoons had nothing to do with freedom of expression, but rather with "terrorising the freedom of others."

    And I can't remember hearing "Je suis Paris" before; it didn't have the impact of "Je suis Charlie".
    Yeah because obviously when you have a country of 80 million people you should only look at what their Islamically conservative president has to say about a magazine that's constantly ridiculing his religion and not what actually happens in their streets. There were plenty of people in the streets doing the same "je suis charlie" meme you saw everywhere else.

    That being said, Erdogan is actually right if he did say that. Charlie Hebdo is just a sad magazine which does nothing but offend people (not just muslims) and the only reason people even know/care about it is because of those terrorist attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    The French brought us enlightment, while everytime the Turks managed to get this far north, they were all about war, rape and kidnapping. It's just hard to relate to it.
    Yes, the French were good boys and never did any of that shit. They were just chilling and eating couscous in Africa all that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    I can't argue with you there. I'm not trying to find reasons to absolve bombers, regardless of their motives. I'm just saying Turkey's in the midst of fighting the Kurds, and just as Palestinians strike at civilian targets because they lack a symmetrical response to Israel's much stronger military, the same goes for the Kurds. It's not right in either case, but it is what it is.
    You can't compare the two. Palestinians have lost nearly their entire country in half a century and have been opressed ever since. Kurds are doing fine in Turkey, it's just in the most eastern parts of Turkey where Kurdish terrorists are active that you have these problems. Kurds also never had a country, they were part of the Ottoman Empire before Western powers decided to fuck that region up in WW1. So their claim for separation is far less legit than that of Palestinians. Even then, the situation was fine for years until recently. There was a ceasefire and peace talks, and Erdogan's government was busy giving Kurds new rights for years prior to this situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Issalice View Post
    Any loss of innocent life is tragic, regardless of the nationality or race. But plastering the Turkish flag all over the place? I don't see that happening for many reasons, the biggest issue I find with it is the Armenian genocide.
    The French committed plenty of atrocities and nobody took issue with that when they were covering Facebook in French flags.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Its a matter of western perspective.

    When someone mentions France, violence isn't one of the first thing that comes to mind.

    When someone mentions Turkey, one of the first things that comes to mind is genocide and human rights violations.
    Which is hilarious, considering France's track record.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerdrake View Post
    Just look at this aftermath..Turkey or Syria? No wonder the Kurds are pissed...
    RT is really a non-biased news source when it comes to Turkey /s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    I'd have empathy, if Turkey had had empathy for France.

    Remember, they boo'd the minute of silence after the Paris attack. Oh well.
    So a bunch of football hooligans represent the entire country now, and not the people who were in the streets demonstrating just like everyone in Western Europe was?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeRoy View Post
    The difference is that Turkey is an islamic state, with islamic values, with a government which supported islamic terrorism.
    You couldn't be more wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well, technically there is a difference. Muslims moved to France voluntarily. Presumably because they wanted a better life. Now that they're there, they're ripping parts of it apart? That's being a very naughty house guest. Unlike the Kurds, who apparently belong where they are, geographically. It's just that some arbitrarily drawn lines tell them they're Turkish instead of Kurdish.
    Yeah France doesn't have any history with colonization of North African muslim countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heh View Post
    Wrong. The dude the OP quoted wants to put kurds in the same pot as fucking ISIS. France was attacked by ISIS a global terrorist threat, Turkey was blown up by their own oppressed people. I doubt the Kurds would attack random countries around the world. It's like if America rounded up the Mexicans and treated them like shit the mexicans did some shit and wow , they are like isis, watch out world! It's sad what happened in Ankara no doubt, but don't put the people that have fought against osama and are fighting against isis , in the same boast as them.
    Except most Kurds are doing fine in Turkey and you're just showing that you don't know nothing outside of what Western media tells you. Turkey has a history of oppressing Kurds, but moved away from that in recent years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unionoob View Post
    Question is. Without artificial borders would it be better? What do you propose as alternative - One big country? Each group own country? Would is be more peaceful in such scenarios or someone would still want to oppress others or step out of his small country and create it bigger?

    We hear that all the time that West caused this by artificial borders but haven't heard any real solution to fix this.
    That part of the world was doing mostly fine while it was still the Ottoman Empire. Better than it is now for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    Artificial borders are fine, but with that has to come an acceptance that borders should also be fluid and reflect changing realities on the ground, instead of holding up "territorial integrity" as some kind of ultimate ideal that needs to be defended at all costs. For the most part national borders have basically been frozen in the same places they were 70 years ago, but it's not like the configuration of that day was really any more logical or natural than any other arbitrary assignment.
    The problem is, who gets to decide the borders? The West because we're supposedly superior? The reason those borders in that region were made and are the way they are is the endgame result of World War 1. It's not like those borders were cut out over a nice cup of tea during a sunday brunch. No country wants to voluntarily give up landmass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    It is important to note that half of the country didn't vote for them, he is really creating a major division it seems. The ironic part is if you look at his voters responses after the recent election victory they believe Erdogan is uniting them all, which couldn't be further from the truth.

    Damn i really wish i knew the name of the turkish PM that did something similar and also managed to inflict a lot of harm, it's important to note that due to economic successes erdogan got originally kept in power, his conservative stances started to show more later on but were tolerated however people should have gotten the hint when he wanted to allow religious objects again in universities. And his economic strengths are being hit now, Russia is doing a major boycott and stopping all major plans they had in Turkey and now with all the constant terrorists attacks their tourist sector will also be hit hard upcoming season.
    That's democracy for you. If you have a >50% majority you get to rule the country single handedly, it's as easy as that. The other near 50% of the country aren't united and all have different agendas and policies.

  19. #199
    Banned Tennis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    I'd have empathy, if Turkey had had empathy for France.

    Remember, they boo'd the minute of silence after the Paris attack. Oh well.
    That makes no sense. Innocent people just died. What kind of person doesn't shoe empathy. Simply awful.

  20. #200
    Je souis nothing. Pardon the bad French. I do see his point though, and everyone is soo upset when something bad happens in Europe/America and their citizens, but fuck the rest of the world, right?

    The bomb attacks in Beirut, killing some 40 people
    Constant suicide attacks in Iraq
    Some terrorists shooting down that Russian plane
    Countless people killed in Latin America due to drug/gang wars
    and the recent terror attacks in Turkey.

    Changing my profile picture to the flag of Turkey won't solve anything, but if you changed it to France but not to other affected countries of pointless terrorism, you're a hypocrite.

    All I can say is that I hope people stop having such double standards and I do feel for the victims in this recent attack (but clicking "Like" on some Facebook post isn't going to help them)

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