Keep LFR out of Legion!

[Deleted]

LFR came out several weeks after wod hit. I don't see how thats an issue, also you could get gear from vendors that would be more powerful (apexis upgrades) again the argument does not hold weight. HFC had baleful gear which was waaaay easier to get as well and was better than LFR gear. LFR gear really is not the problem.

Garrisons allowed you to get LFR gear or higher (depending on if you got any bosses in normal/heroic down) thats way worse than someone actually doing content. As you practically get gear mailed to you.

It isn't different. You can't fail lfr. If you ever do get to ten stacks the nerf bat will fall on it hard. In practice there isn't a difference between that and getting something mailed to you above a superficial level of play (lfr bosses have been soloed this expact with 0 buff).

It comes down to what do you want out of WoW? I want a video game not a movie that is why I can't see lfr as quality content as a end game for non raiders.

Put its rewards to match its difficulty of just above normal dungeons and its fine.

[Seefer]

yeah more as in keep on doing raid content and not more as in more quantity of raids; it is quite ambiguous you see.

Where do you read what he meant? For all we know they are BOTH wrong, but in the way it is being said it sounds like Bacon is right.

[TheFuse]

Hell when you compare it to something like tbc where heroic dungeons lasted the average player a month or two it is even more jarring. Once LFR comes out everything but raiding dies to it.

Then LFR isn't the problem, the problem is the reward or lack of, in the other activities. Instead of removing LFR, make the invasions worth the time and effort, let challenge modes drop LFR quality gear. Don't ruin one aspect of the game when you can just make the others better.

[Orangetai420]

Put its rewards to match its difficulty of just above normal dungeons and its fine.

This would be a great solution. The point of LFR was to allow players with time constraints to see the content. It should never have been an avenue to gear up. If it only gave normal dungeon level gear and some gold and valor it would feel right. It should NOT be used to farm legendary quest items. It should only be used to see the progression of the story with a little added incentive for people to queue up (gold and valor).

The rewards are far too great for the level of difficulty. I think this is one of the major problems with WoW, everything is far too easy until you get to mythic level raids and challenge modes. We need a smoother difficulty curve, starting with questing and entry level 5 mans. You can right click on a boss in LFR and come back 7 minutes later to free epics, its disgusting.

[Deleted]

Then LFR isn't the problem, the problem is the reward or lack of, in the other activities. Instead of removing LFR, make the invasions worth the time and effort, let challenge modes drop LFR quality gear. Don't ruin one aspect of the game when you can just make the others better.

Isn't it easier to just lower lfr then raise everything else?

[Deleted]

And this is what confuse me. Why do you think I should about what you have achieved in a videogame?

And here I though the purpose of an MMO was playing a video game with the option to play with other people. I did not know it was a <insert> waving contest.

You make no sense. It's an MMO, the point is to play with other people.

I don't really get your question though. Rewards should be given for effort because that is how you differentiate who made the effort and who didn't. You wish to be granted mythic rewards for doing LFR? If everyone gets easy acess to all rewards, no rewards have any value.
It's only an e-peen contest if you want to view it as such. I see it as rewarding the effort put in accordingly. You are jealous of the other guys e-peen? Great! That is exactly the motivation you need to take the next step. Its not the other guy that should be brought back to your level, its you that need to feel motivated to take the next step.

[Punisher069]

That is exactly the motivation you need to take the next step. Its not the other guy that should be brought back to your level, its you that need to feel motivated to take the next step.

If we are going by stuff Ghostcrawler said, he's stated that most players are not likely to ever step up. Which is fine by me, I've never seen anyone and be so amazed I needed to play better for some reason.

[TheFuse]

Isn't it easier to just lower lfr then raise everything else?

We gain nothing by taking from LFR, but we gain more game play options by increasing the rewards offered by CM dailies, invasions, crafting, etc.

Just because something is easier to do doesn't automatically make it the right option. Isn't that why you hate LFR in the first place?

[Deleted]

Oh so many misinformations...
So first: LFR came AFTER Numbers start to go down. And just because the TBC model worked back then, doesn't mean it will work in 2016 as well. Because it won't and Blizzard knows that. Are you really stuck in the past so bad that you think everything will stay the way it always has? I would like Blizzard to make an expansion the way TBC has been, just to see numbers skydive to the ground and proving you wrong, but...... although i have been bitiching about Blizz a lot lately, i actually want them to make a good game.

But a good game for the majority of players. I know you can't please everybody, but to lose a few LFR-hater and maybe a few mythic raider is by far the idea that is less worse than to cut of LFR and drive a ton of people out of the game. So people should consider if they ask Blizzard to not please everyone WHO they actually could care less for. And since the group of people that play longer simply because they need longer to go through content (because they don't log in every day, cluttering the servers and queues) aka casuals is by far greater than mythic-raiders, LFR-Haters and hardcoreplayers combined, you better hope Blizzard doesn't cut off Mythic and distributes the gear via random drops for killing boars.

One should always be careful what they wish for, because it might turn around and bite you in the.... ;-)

I don't think you have a very good grasp on how things work. Casual players are the flock, not the trend setters. They will play what is deemed good by the trend setters. The trend setters are the hardcore players. The more you see hardcore players leave the less motivated the masses are to stay. Its all about beeing the cool thing to play.

I totally disagree. An expansion with the TBC structure would be a sucess. Yes, at first the players that are used to crying and getting what they want would make a fit. Many would probably leave... but the trend setters would return. After a year or so of the game regaining recognition by the more hardcore communities word of mouth would come out, people would start getting interested again, and the model promotes a bigger retention of subs because the content isnt burned in one week.

So... sorry but theres no disinformation. If you think such an expansion model would be bad, you need proof. All we have seen since LFR is decline and you really got nothing that shows its actually been beneficial in terms of subs. It obviously would never be, because if you get to blast through the end raid in a day... why would you stick around for more than a month? These customers are quite honestly almost completely worthless. Its not the kind of customer Blizzard needs.

[TheFuse]

I don't think you have a very good grasp on how things work. Casual players are the flock, not the trend setters. They will play what is deemed good by the trend setters. The trend setters are the hardcore players. The more you see hardcore players leave the less motivated the masses are to stay. Its all about beeing the cool thing to play.

I totally disagree. An expansion with the TBC structure would be a sucess. Yes, ay first the players that are used to crying and getting what they want would make a fit. Many would probably leave... but the trend setters would return. After a year or so of the game regaining recognition by the more hardcore communities word of mouth would come out, people would start getting interested again, and the model promotes a bigger retention of subs because the content isnt burned in one week.

So... sorry but theres no disinformation. If you think such an expansion model would be bad, you need proof. All we have seen since LFR is decline.

So then following your logic Wildstar should have been a massive success, it was made for the 'hardcore' crowd. It had the awful TBC attunements and difficult dungeons and... it fell flat on its face.

[Punisher069]

I don't think you have a very good grasp on how things work. Casual players are the flock, not the trend setters. They will play what is deemed good by the trend setters. The trend setters are the hardcore players. The more you see hardcore players leave the less motivated the masses are to stay. Its all about beeing the cool thing to play.

I totally disagree. An expansion with the TBC structure would be a sucess. Yes, at first the players that are used to crying and getting what they want would make a fit. Many would probably leave... but the trend setters would return. After a year or so of the game regaining recognition by the more hardcore communities word of mouth would come out, people would start getting interested again, and the model promotes a bigger retention of subs because the content isnt burned in one week.

So... sorry but theres no disinformation. If you think such an expansion model would be bad, you need proof. All we have seen since LFR is decline and you really got nothing that shows its actually been beneficial in terms of subs. It obviously woukd never be, because if you get to blast through the end raid in a day... why would you stick around for more than a month? These customers are quite honestly almost completely worthless. Its not the kind of customer Blizzard needs.

I remember people said this would happen with cata, with hard dungeons and the raids.

[Deleted]

If we are going by stuff Ghostcrawler said, he's stated that most players are not likely to ever step up. Which is fine by me, I've never seen anyone and be so amazed I needed to play better for some reason.

That is perfectly fine. Enjoying the game should'nt require large scale raiding. Dungeons, 10 man raids should be content options aswell.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember people said this would happen with cata, with hard dungeons and the raids.

Cata was nothing like TBC.

- - - Updated - - -

So then following your logic Wildstar should have been a massive success, it was made for the 'hardcore' crowd. It had the awful TBC attunements and difficult dungeons and... it fell flat on its face.

You have to read my posts man. I can't be explaining my view with every quote. No, wildstar is not like what i'm saying. I'm not saying make an MMO just for the hardcore. I am saying make an MMO for everyone who wants to play an MMO. WoW has skewed too much to fast consumption, low social level content and that isn't good for anyone.
I do think that those that are only interested in playing solo in group content should'nt have a place though.

[Deleted]

We gain nothing by taking from LFR, but we gain more game play options by increasing the rewards offered by CM dailies, invasions, crafting, etc.

Just because something is easier to do doesn't automatically make it the right option. Isn't that why you hate LFR in the first place?

That would just trivialize normal or heroic...

Why does everything need to be sacrificed to keep lfr limping along?

[TheFuse]

That would just trivialize normal or heroic...

Why does everything need to be sacrificed to keep lfr limping along?

In what way does it trivialize normal and heroic? LFR should be a stepping stone between heroic five mans and organized raiding. If there's more ways to get LFR quality gear it gives players more ways to get into normal+ raiding if it interests them.

[Glorious Leader]

That would just trivialize normal or heroic...

Why does everything need to be sacrificed to keep lfr limping along?

The real question implicit in this is why does everything have tk be sacrificed to keep RAIDING limping along?

[TheFuse]

The real question implicit in this is why does everything have tk be sacrificed to keep RAIDING limping along?

Because raiding is the core of the game?

5/7 for effort

[kary]

Because raiding is the core of the game?

5/7 for effort

Don't break his bubble.
Like, I honestly don't understand how people think that WoW isn't about raiding.

[anaxie]

Don't break his bubble.
Like, I honestly don't understand how people think that WoW isn't about raiding.

For now

Greater Challenge Modes and PvP is the varience.

But then people can bitch that they aren't good enough to get the upper tier 5 man gear because it's too hard or people are too picky who to take in the SINGLE lockout their Challenge mode items let them do. Totally get the guy who bails out or goes afk so you completely waste the loot and entire CM lock.

[Deleted]

The real question implicit in this is why does everything have tk be sacrificed to keep RAIDING limping along?

Because breaking a working progression system the only one left I should add to prop up a even more broken system with lfr seems nearly insane?

I am fine if and only if the dungeons are hard enough to warrant it for dungeons to drop up to heroic raid gear. I can't say mythic because in order to tune them that tightly only 7 or eight specs would be able to complete them.

The whole make it rain loot is what butchered non raid content to start with... how the hell would making it worse be better?

[TheFuse]

The whole make it rain loot is what butchered non raid content to start with... how the hell would making it worse be better?

So non-raid content has been butchered since the implementation of Arena in TBC? Because you could get epic quality gear for no effort back then too, full sets for all of your specs for minimal effort. Gear good enough to raid in, even.

Hit 70, AFK bot in battlegrounds/get carried in arenas, buy gear, and raid. The only time you -had- to do heroics was for quests. As I said in another post, LFR should be brought back up to the level it was in Cata/MoP, award tier/trinkets since they can be class and spec defining, and serve as an optional stepping stone between heroic five mans and raiding. But there should also be other ways of getting the same gear through different methods. Being able to farm for and craft LFR quality tier gear, for example, would make crafting a worthwhile venture without trivializing anything or taking away aspects of the game that people enjoy.