[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[EzG]

Completely wrong. Sorry.

Regardless of what that poster said assuming you placed all the juicy talents in advantageous spots, why don't you rather explain in detail why you moved the talents in the first place and why some talents are where they are now instead of proving critics wrong by saying they are wrong and that's it. If you think you explained yourself well you did not as I can't think why you would change the talents around in such a way. You did specifically say its "(arguably)...better", so then, argue it.

[Deleted]

Regardless of what that poster said assuming you placed all the juicy talents in advantageous spots, why don't you rather explain in detail why you moved the talents in the first place and why some talents are where they are now instead of proving critics wrong by saying they are wrong and that's it. If you think you explained yourself well you did not as I can't think why you would change the talents around in such a way. You did specifically say its "(arguably)...better", so then, argue it.

This please... Because the image HeroJez took the time and effort to make just made me go WTF...

[Leefa]

Regardless of what that poster said assuming you placed all the juicy talents in advantageous spots, why don't you rather explain in detail why you moved the talents in the first place and why some talents are where they are now instead of proving critics wrong by saying they are wrong and that's it. If you think you explained yourself well you did not as I can't think why you would change the talents around in such a way. You did specifically say its "(arguably)...better", so then, argue it.

The only real difference in his suggestion is that you can avoid picking a CC talent and you trade Holy Bolt/Lights Hammer with Divine Purpose. His suggestion is useless as you end up with basically the same "choices" that we're forced into now cause 15 talents are absolutely horrible.

- Fist of Justice
- Holy Bolt (Or LH)
+ Divine Purpose
+ Stoicism

Thats the difference between Alpha and his suggestion. Plus the fact that you would end up with weird situations where people could abuse 3x Aura or 2x Beacon talents.

[EzG]

The only real difference in his suggestion is that you can avoid picking a CC talent and you trade Holy Bolt/Lights Hammer with Divine Purpose. His suggestion is useless as you end up with basically the same "choices" that we're forced into now cause 15 talents are absolutely horrible.

- Fist of Justice
- Holy Bolt (Or LH)
+ Divine Purpose
+ Stoicism

Thats the difference between Alpha and his suggestion. Plus the fact that you would end up with weird situations where people could abuse 3x Aura or 2x Beacon talents.

I can tell the differences that were made and the possible outcomes. I just want to know why . I just wanna use divine steed because diablo... so mix it around so i can do that, but it has to be without a loss in defensive or offensive capability

[Iceadin]

I have a feeling there's a difference between Holy as an offensive spell type and Holy as a healing spell type. You wouldn't think so, considering Holy Shock, and Prism, but it might have something to do with the intent, chant, or thoughts while casting or invoking the spell.

Still, Consecrated Ground and a few other Prot/Ret talents would be great for Holy. I know we're a while away from the Beta and more definite numbers tuning, but just because stuff like Stoicism and DP are okay on paper, doesn't mean to say they'll work out in game, and in fact there are quite a few boring talents.

Even shuffling talents around (with a different philosophy in mind) like so:



...won't help much more, even if there is (arguably) a better comparison between talents, because we're still stuck with stuff that just isn't exciting. Passives don't have to be boring, but with Paladins especially, they seem to be.

Like some others have mentioned, could you try to explain your talent tree? When you said you shuffled the talents around with a different philosophy in mind what exactly was that philosophy? I'd like to see your reasoning because, in the current state of alpha, there is almost no variation in choice at all for each row in your talent tree. Generally, there has been a theme for each row most of the time (movement, utility, cc, etc.), and you just sort of threw that out the window. For example, why would I pick fist of justice or repentance over unbreakable spirit? why would I pick light's hammer or blinding light over aura of mercy? Some talents just slaughter the others that are within their row. The point that I'm trying to make is that players need to be confronted with having to make a choice of picking a talent that best suits the current situation, and it's a good thing if the decision is hard to come to. I'm not saying that all talent trees have been like this because some have definitely failed, but I think the goal is to provide variation and choice to the players as best as possible.

[Leefa]

I just wanna use divine steed because diablo... so mix it around so i can do that, but it has to be without a loss in defensive or offensive capability

Divine Steed should just be baseline and have a shorter cooldown (30-40 sec max) if they aren't going to offer a movement speed tier. It's not good enough to pick over any healing increase or something like Unbreakable Spirit (which should be baked into Divine Intervention imo). The only situations where we would pick it is if we're forced to pick it because of x mechanic (and if it happens too often it should be baseline anyway).

[CloudedInSanity]

Here is something that makes sense.

Divine Intervention now reduces the cooldown of bubble by 50%. LoH now has a standard 5 minute cooldown. DP is always a 1 minute cooldown. Divine Steed is now also baseline.

15: Throughput Increase Row (Divine Purpose would need to be nerfed to 20% probably, or the other two buffed, Crusader's Might just needs to be changed)
30: CC Row
45: Aura Row
60: Cooldown Row - Would need one additional talent. (Rule of Law would need significant buffs, maybe increase our Mastery by 25% for the duration)
75: AoE Row (Needs something for PvP, just give execution sentence back)
90: Throughput Row
100: Beacon Row

[Kaslia]

Cloud why did you take unbreakable spirit out? I know you were just giving him an example of why his talent tree didn't look that great but wondered. I do not like some of the new talents, for me its not even a choice. I do like tho from many videos I watched having both Light's Hammer and Holy Prism to use both in an encounter but LH is so mana costly, long cd and doesn't heal for much. If they fixed it, then it could contend even with the nerfed HP. But having them both in same row not sure many would even choose LH. I would like to see a talent that gives people the option on those fights where you are spread out to increase your throughput healing that isn't based on positional mastery. I do not like the new mastery as it is punishing when the raid is spread out we are back to where we were when mastery was introduced in the game, we basically have none. I ask, why would you bring a paly to them fights when they can't really compete. If your guild doesn't have many melee you would be standing with the ranged bec of mastery unless they are spread out. This would defeat the purpose of a melee healer. If your going to be a melee healer then stand in the melee, but you shouldn't be punished if you decided to heal someone at ranged that was low health. Not sure I am understanding Blizzard's idea of a melee healer with so many restrictions or what I call gimmick's to be an effective healer aka judgment for one.

[CloudedInSanity]

Cloud why did you take unbreakable spirit out?

I made the effects baseline, because in all reality they should be. That talent just dominates any row it will go in.

[-Skye]

Discs are dps hybrids. Shamans are more fun. Druids are the same. Monks seem betterish (kinda?). Pally's are both more active and passive than current retail. IMO

Do you know any up to date gameplay streams? Still trying to decide what class I'm going to play

[Totes]

am I reading this correctly, the latest build nerfed both Beacon of Faith AND Beacon of the Lightbringer?

[Pasture]

Holy Paladin – Level 100 talents reduced to a more reasonable power level, and core abilities buffed to compensate.

Blue post.

[btard]

i guess we take savior now since other talents do nothing lol

[Deleted]

For the beacon change. Are they talking about 20% of our heals goes to light and 20% to faith. Or do they both get a base of 40% and then a 20% reduction so 32%

[Kaslia]

What is the purpose of the nerfs to Lightbringer and Faith? to force us to use Savior? It seems they keeping nerfing the decent talents trying to force us to use the talents that are subpar. Holy shock got nerfed bec of pvp. I do not know why they nerfed the healing aspect of it tho. So far all I have seen is nerf after nerf. I am not on alpha but I have watched all the videos people make. Are we really that overpowered we need to be constantly nerfed? Just seems no matter what feedback they are given it is ignored. They have decided how this class will be and you either like it or don't play it. How are paladins holding up in raids? I know they struggle in some of the dungeons, not all tho.

[Unir]

What is that change to Aura of Mercy about? It was the only decent aura to consider using.

Jesus. I am really feeling like I should be looking at other healers now. This is just one bad idea after another.

[Leefa]

What is that change to Aura of Mercy about? It was the only decent aura to consider using.

Jesus. I am really feeling like I should be looking at other healers now. This is just one bad idea after another.

The change seems to indicate a change to Aura Mastery to no longer increase the range to 40 yards. The AM tooltip still says 40 yards, though it seems like they want it to be a 10 yard thing....atleast thats how I read it.

There's so many changes this build thats complete shit. Whatever feedback given to them they will do the opposite and they seem to be on a mission to make sure all talents are horrible choices.

[Lexxia]

What is the purpose of the nerfs to Lightbringer and Faith? to force us to use Savior? It seems they keeping nerfing the decent talents trying to force us to use the talents that are subpar..

This is how they have been doing things for a while now. When a talent is too popular (for example unbreakable spirit) they nerf it instead of making the other ones interesting. Changes for hpallies for next xpac are a real shit show.

[Kaslia]

That's real sad If the Paly Community doesn't like their ideas I mean I know what it feels like but bad ideas are just that bad ones. We have so many talented people in the community not sure why they won't at least try some of those ideas especially from very talented paly's who really understand all the dynamics.

[Unir]

The change seems to indicate a change to Aura Mastery to no longer increase the range to 40 yards. The AM tooltip still says 40 yards, though it seems like they want it to be a 10 yard thing....atleast thats how I read it.

There's so many changes this build thats complete shit. Whatever feedback given to them they will do the opposite and they seem to be on a mission to make sure all talents are horrible choices.

They are succeeding, and it's really disheartening. I've played this class for years, and sadly, holy priest and mistweaver monk are looking better and better. At least they have some interesting abilities and access to mobility options. Hell, for that matter so is resto shaman.