Any other MMO having a year+ long content drought would be considered "Dead"

[Sliske]

Then accept that you have played the game too long and DO SOMETHING ELSE in spare time. Blizzard can not hope for their one product to consume every ounce of someones free time with new media while building new products.

I do - I haven't played WoW actively since October or so.

But as I said in my post, if the classes are fun, people will play.

We played through TOC with no sub loss, we played through a year of ICC with no sub loss. The problem the game faces right now, the 'big problem' is that the medium by which you experience the game - your spec, feels empty to play. There is no skill involved, there is very little thought. Most of your decisions come at the hands of RNG, and your damage is utterly dependant on how many procs you got, not how well you played.

If classes were fun, WoD would be as much of a 'success' as Cataclysm, but because classes are unrewarding, unfun to play, this expansion has no chance of being good. Who would say BRF or shit? HFC is a great raid too - but it doesn't matter, the classes are shit, so the game is shit.

Feel free to nay say some more though.

[Amerissis]

I wouldn't be surprised if GW2 will actually outlive WoW, yes. Want to bet (eg, who will drop under 300k players first)?

I bet you already lost that one, but unfortunately there is no way to know these numbers, so useless bet.

[thilicen]

Because I still find things to do? Or is that just too obvious for you OP?

[Sliske]

I wouldn't be surprised if GW2 will actually outlive WoW, yes. Want to bet (eg, who will drop under 300k players first)?

GW2 fans are doomsaying already, and their new expansion has only been out 5 or 6 months and its only a few weeks after the latest raid wing.

One of their head devs left the company a few days ago too.

GW2 was a great game, but it made the same mistake of WoW - it makes past content obsolete by adding new content. They completely shredded any use for their dungeons, and most of the end game zones are laughable when compared to Silverwastes or the HoT zones for efficiency in literally everything.

- - - Updated - - -

I bet you already lost that one, but unfortunately there is no way to know these numbers, so useless bet.

Tbh you can actually see how many players are online in GW2 via the options - when I played on HoT launch, there was around 80k online at peak times. Prior to HoT this number was usually 30k-50k. I reckon its probably 30k-50k now.

Comparable to Runescape numbers.

[Echo of Soul]

WoW players are free to play other games if they already done all the content.

True. If you go to a restaurant and get a really small portion you're also free to go to another restaurant and eat something else.

Which is a problem to community caused by clamoring HURRY UP HURRY UP. New expansions fasters!

Nobody ever said that. New content faster on the other hand is what people asked for, which gave Blizzard the perfect excuse to do charge us more often by creating shorter expansions.

Like blizz said the subs are cyclical.

The subs are cyclical because Blizzard made them cyclical. Before ICC we rarely ran out of stuff to do so there was no need to unsubscribe.

Because if you want to play a fast-paced MMO with suitably challenging large group PVE content, WoW is still the only choice.

WoW wasn't always fast paced, which is probably one of the reasons that people who liked the old model are upset.

And the WoW team is building a Giant fucking expansion. Do you have a point?

But that's their excuse all the time isn't it? The reason we're always kept waiting is because they are working on the next big thing.



Whenever the solution is to unsub and play something else for the majority of the time there's something wrong with your MMORPG.

[Geckoo]

And the WoW team is building a Giant fucking expansion. Do you have a point?

If you want GW2 content and updates play GW2.

The point is that content doesn't need to be tied to a major patch each 6-12 months. Not every patch has to be a raid patch, not every patch has to be a new tier or provide a new zone, not every patch has to be a new feature.

The problem is not what they are doing right now, the problem is how they plan to release whatever they are doing. If after 11 years they haven't realized that they need to change how they release their content to avoid this problem, then they should be really ashamed.

There are several ways to provide variety in the things we get to do and keep advancing in terms of lore, but they need to plan them ahead of time. This game needs to be more dynamic in a lot of ways.

[anaxie]

Right and that happened because WoW was too fat for anyone to overthrow and at the same time too bad to spoil the genre for the players.

Theme park MMOs might easily return after WoW finally dies. Although there is no shortage of possibilities in other genres so theme parks might just die with WoW because everyone plays something else.

But the key is that it is WoW that devalued and killed it.

It might but WoW isn't dying anytime this decade and it's nonsense to think otherwise. WoW will die when they shut down the servers themselves.

WOW can't please everyone. We don't talk about killing. You don't like it fucking whatever.

I think Diablo loot is the stupidest fucking reward structure in a game. Alot of people like it. I don't and the concepts of group raid them park MMOs doesnt interest me anymore. I CHANGED the game is still the same at it's core. It's not like there is no shortage of good games to play.

The doomsayers apparently seem more concerned with the state of WoW then the Developers are.

The fact it's 3- 4- 5 or whatever the fuck million after 11 YEARS is fucking outstanding

[Schmilblick]

Ant other MMO got 5+ millions subs ? no, so here's you answer.

[anaxie]

The point is that content doesn't need to be tied to a major patch each 6-12 months. Not every patch has to be a raid patch, not every patch has to be a new tier or provide a new zone, not every patch has to be a new feature.

The problem is not what they are doing right now, the problem is how they plan to release whatever they are doing. If after 11 years they haven't realized that they need to change how they release their content to avoid this problem, then they should be really ashamed.

There are several ways to provide variety in the things we get to do and keep advancing in terms of lore, but they need to plan them ahead of time. This game needs to be more dynamic in a lot of ways.

Do you seriously even look at what they are doing for Legion. I don't even play or plan to play and I know what they are doing with the zones and world structure in Legion.

Shit happens. BLizzard did 2 raid tiers to try to get legion out in 1.5 years vs 2.2 but there is ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOT of work going into Legion and it ended up taking 2. They may as well be making a brand new MMo with the work they have to put into class design alone. CM Tiers. Honor system 3.0

What I'm saying here is be thankful. You could of been stuck in Draenor for 3 years. Is that worth an extra raid with a fucking horribly designed reward structure that they revamped and VASTLY IMPROVED in their new version of it in Legion.

I mean serioulsy is 1 raid worth getting another 6 -8 months of WoD? or 3 dungeons for that matter if your still in the SAME ZONES, WIth the SAME Apexis quest failure reward system, With the SAME reps.

No it wouldn't magically fix all the problems of the world.

[Vzz]

Ant other MMO got 5+ millions subs ? no, so here's you answer.

Actually less than 5kk, and yes, there is no other MMO that lost over 7kk active subscribers due to bad game design decisions.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Actually less than 5kk, and yes, there is no other MMO that lost over 7kk active subscribers due to bad game design decisions.

At least it had over 7m people to lose and still has millions left. Dead game is dead guis, I cri evritim.

[anaxie]

What's with the attitude? There's no need to swear and stuff.

Repeating things is content in your personal opinion, and you're free to define it that way if you like. My definition is different.

No content being things you do is a factual interpretation of the phrase.

You want NEW content that does not mean the things are not content.if old.

Your definition is wrong not sorry.

[Deleted]

Well... WoW has still a lot of time, familiar environment (game-mechanics, social, lore...) etc. for many players who left in store.

That's also what makes it a lot harder to try out new games.

Just look, anaxie returned and you completely know what follows - big ego, geared ret paladin, posing, fans, zero-tolerance etc. It's the same when you return to wow. You know what will await you there.

[Deleted]

Actually less than 5kk, and yes, there is no other MMO that lost over 7kk active subscribers due to bad game design decisions.

Or you know... that last part is because most people don't play the same damn game for years on end
Everything declines at some point and there's no stopping that, you can only delay the inevitable (as demonstrated with WoD subs at the start of the expansion).

[anaxie]

At least it had over 7m people to lose and still has millions left. Dead game is dead guis, I cri evritim.

perceptages makes everything seem better in perspective till they see all those 0s and want that sweet WoW money.

Still in boat that the genre is stale though and people are more or less just done with the concept of Raiding MMOs.

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Well... WoW has still a lot of time, familiar environment (game-mechanics, social, lore...) etc. for many players who left in store.

That's also what makes it a lot harder to try out new games.

Just look, anaxie returned and you completely know what follows - big ego, geared ret paladin, posing, fans, zero-tolerance etc. It's the same when you return to wow. You know what will await you there.

I havnt been geared in a LOOOOOOOONG time.
Fuck i'd prolly be noob as fuck in mythic not knowing whats up while I get carried in 1 minute Mythic kills.

[Lei]

Well... WoW has still a lot of time, familiar environment (game-mechanics, social, lore...) etc. for many players who left in store.

That's also what makes it a lot harder to try out new games.

Hehe I remember when I tried other mmos. My prayer was like "I dare you to be better than wow and I'll stick around!" Nowadays? "Please don't be worse than wow and I might stick". )))
I mean in the end wow is still "king" for me, mostly due to already invested time and money. But I don't like the "how is it still king" part.

[anaxie]

Hehe I remember when I tried other mmos. My prayer was like "I dare you to be better than wow and I'll stick around!" Nowadays? "Please don't be worse than wow and I might stick". )))
I mean in the end wow is still "king" for me, mostly due to already invested time and money. But I don't like the "how is it still king" part.

I can't play other MMOs to OCD.

Which as a result ment i couldn't play ANY RPGS of any type in a decade of playing WoW.

Gawd its good to be free.

[Geckoo]

Do you seriously even look at what they are doing for Legion. I don't even play or plan to play and I know what they are doing with the zones and world structure in Legion.

I do and yes, the broken isles have the potential to be more dynamic, but the problem will still be present if after releasing the last raid in legion they keep the game without new content for a year... again. The main problem is that while the content in those zones can be dynamic, the rewards won't be, the variety will be finite, lore will be already finished and the reasons to keep doing that content will keep going down. Still a good change, but not enough to solve the problem we are talking about.

Dynamic is not only something to be found in-game, but also in how they develop content. The point of what i'm saying is that instead of releasing a big ass pre-expansion event that will change everything and set a new paradigm in terms of lore after a year without novelties... release small burst of content that feature small events or quests using the existing zones that help to build up the lore for that bigg ass event. But as i said, this needs to be done ahead of time, not as something that you develop a month before releasing it.

Basically, make a bridge between expansions instead of the instant teleport we always had.

[anaxie]

I do and yes, the broken isles have the potential to be more dynamic, but the problem will still be present if after releasing the last raid in legion they keep the game without new content for a year... again. The main problem is that while the content in those zones can be dynamic, the rewards won't be, the variety will be finite, lore will be already finished and the reasons to keep doing that content will keep going down. Still a good change, but not enough to solve the problem we are talking about.

Dynamic is not only something to be found in-game, but also in how they develop content. The point of what i'm saying is that instead of releasing a big ass pre-expansion event that will change everything and set a new paradigm in terms of lore after a year without novelties... release small burst of content that feature small events or quests using the existing zones that help to build up the lore for that bigg ass event. But as i said, this needs to be done ahead of time, not as something that you develop a month before releasing it.

Basically, make a bridge between expansions instead of the instant teleport we always had.

Except in LEGION instead of Garrison Ques you will have tons of actualy zone adventures linked to your order halls.

Alts won't jujst be a different class but DIFFERENT stories.

CMs will be tiered instead of timed making a new PvE Metagame

Non rated BGs have leveling and rank up / prestige systems.

No frankly if you can't find anything to do in Legion even in the final patch. it goes without saying that person probably couldn't find their own fucking shoes.

Also the bold part.

Rewards.

If you are playing the game for the REWARDS as your endgame instead of the CONTENT that is your main underlying issue and you should probably just quit now.

[ThunderTaco]

Why do WoW players accept this?

Because they enjoy the content ?