Met with an architect today.... what do you think?

[Hiricine]

Many consultations are free, if he didn't mention anything and you never agreed to anything then you don't owe him a dime, at least not that anyone can get you to pay.

Do you feel as though you owe him what hes charging though? From an ethical standpoint, do you owe him for his time, or put another way, did you steal his time? He obviously benefitted by the free advertising for his services, since you rang him up for a consultation with the presumption he'd be on the case if it was agreeable. So even assuming that you got value out of the interaction, so did he.

Anyways I wouldn't pay him a dime, people really should be upfront with their prices and if they aren't, they could at least answer directly when someone asks. Otherwise they're just trying to trap them into paying.

[Celista]

Okay so the ones near you failed, you're being very unduly harsh, there might be a niche where he lives for this to succeed, there's certainly one in my town that's been going strong 5 years and is always crammed full on the weekends and holidays. Booking is always needed. Budgets are simply that, you're nearly always going to go over them. If anything, starting with a smaller budget is good since it pushes what you can do with it to the limitations. Keep it small then grow the budget when things truly are in dire need. Hopefully he's put that into consideration.

My intent isn't to be harsh, if the OP can do it under $100k then more power to him. Location matters...agreed on budget but one can't ignore having a safety net for the first year. Or six months at minimum.

OP if you can do some of the renovations yourself that can help cut down on cost.

[Reeve]

You live in Houston? My sister is working for an architect company there.

I do live in Houston, but I work in oil exploration, not architecture.

- - - Updated - - -

I assumed the OP was talking about a place like this:

http://asgardgames.net

[Kirsae]

Ok so first off check with your local municipality as far as what is required for permitting. In many locations, sealed architectural drawings are a requisite for obtaining a building permit, so you're likely required to go through an architect if you want to do any type of renovation or new construction.

Second, that guy was a dick so just move on. Expect to get multiple estimates (minimum of 3) and then pick from the best from there. Note that the best is not always the cheapest.

You can start here: https://architectfinder.aia.org/, but you're probably better off looking for a small outfit. Architecture is a very saturated industry, as many people choose that as a profession thinking they're going to be some sort of "artist" and then realize they have to put extremely long and hard hours. Because of that saturation, many young architects drop out of the larger firms and try and start their own little shops. Look for these because another benefit of the saturation is they can be very competitive for work.

[As a side note, if the guy gives you any hassle in the future, you can always report him to your state's local licensing board, Better Business Bureau, or directly to the AIA for any kind of shady practices.]

Lastly, if you use an architect he usually just winds up to be the middle man to communicate with a contractor anyway to make sure things are built according to plans and specs. This, along with his design services, are what you're paying for, which is typically a percentage of the total construction budget (for example if you wanted to spend $50k total, his services alone might be 7%, or $3500).

[TITAN308]

A ... board game cafe?
I am unfamiliar with those.

Is it simply a cafe where you can play board games? Does sound fun

You are unfamiliar with it because it is not a business that can sustain viability. There is a reason we don't have board game cafes.

There may be some exceptions to the rule, but just calling it like I see it.

[urasim]

My intent isn't to be harsh, if the OP can do it under $100k then more power to him. Location matters...agreed on budget but one can't ignore having a safety net for the first year. Or six months at minimum.

OP if you can do some of the renovations yourself that can help cut down on cost.

You sound rather snobbish. Everyone knows location matters and that costs will be reduced if you do it yourself. Everything you're saying is common sense, and you're saying it as if everyone else is an idiot.

[GarlicGuy]

You are unfamiliar with it because it is not a business that can sustain viability. There is a reason we don't have board game cafes.

There may be some exceptions to the rule, but just calling it like I see it.

Except that they definitely can be viable. Have you actually done a single iota of research? I have spent well over 150 hours on research. Or, are you just spouting garbage because you don't like the premise?

Board game sales are up 20% in each of the last 5 years. People go to cafe's. People who are playing board games is a growing number on a daily basis.

I could not be there, but I have someone at the GAMA conference in Las Vegas this week. GAMA is the Game Manufacturer's Association. They have sessions specifically dealing with board game cafe's and how to open and make them viable.

http://www.gamatradeshow.com/show-schedule/

Do you have a clue what my business model is based on? I am betting you don't.

[Kathandira]

You are unfamiliar with it because it is not a business that can sustain viability. There is a reason we don't have board game cafes.

There may be some exceptions to the rule, but just calling it like I see it.

We have only 1 game shop around us. The Only Game In Town, or TOGIT for short. They have Warhammer tables, Board Game tables and MTG tables. They sell mini's, board games, MTG cards, D&D books. Paints, and various other table top gaming accessories.

They have been around for quite some time, and are still doing well to this day. I wouldn't call it a Cafe`though as they do not serve any food or drinks.

[nextormento]

Because of that saturation, many young architects drop out of the larger firms and try and start their own little shops.

It's the other way around, in my experience: people flock to large firms if they can ensure a stable contract.
Having your own studio is a pain. Rent, plus collegiate license, plus insurance quickly add up. And, as a small firm, you can't really count on a constant stream of clients.
Most of my friends closed shop a few years ago and moved to London, or Germany to work for large firms.

[Celista]

You sound rather snobbish. Everyone knows location matters and that costs will be reduced if you do it yourself. Everything you're saying is common sense, and you're saying it as if everyone else is an idiot.

You sound inexperienced, impulsive and irascible if you operate under the assumption that everyone has a level of business expertise that is not directly implied by their posts. Name calling can go both ways...

Also, you have clearly not read many businesses plans or ideas, whether on these forums or elsewhere, if you assume that everyone who has a business idea is well-informed.

[techgeek]

I think that you'll find in the business world that there are many shitty/average companies involved with everything from architecture to construction (duh!). Many of these companies put on a nice show and talk as though they're a top tier company among the industry leaders.

The reality though, is that most of these people and companies are average at best. I should also warn you that many architects in my experience dealing with them think quite highly of themselves. This generally leads to bad things such as them expecting to be paid comparably to the industry leaders and top performers, which they are not. The thing is, even if your profession requires a high degree of skill or creativity, there will always be people who are better and worse than the average, but, IME when you do need to be a reasonably smart person for a profession, even the shitty ones get cocky.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't cheap out on the architect or the construction companies. They really don't set the bar for "average" that high but an exceptional company will really make all the difference in the end result and its longevity.

You may also receive significantly more professional treatment from exceptional companies, they can be worth the cost.

[Borgia]

Just let it go OP. Ignoring/refusing to answer about a fee and then charge someone all of a sudden is nothing but a scam.
Go look for another architect that actually has some decency. It wouldn't surprise me that even his whole consultation was also plain bullshit and your project is actually viable without credit.

[Celista]

Just let it go OP. Ignoring/refusing to answer about a fee and then charge someone all of a sudden is nothing but a scam.
Go look for another architect that actually has some decency. It wouldn't surprise me that even his whole consultation was also plain bullshit and your project is actually viable without credit.

Pricing for plans didn't seem that unusual, there were a couple of architecture plans I was looking at online and downloading the CAD versions that you need for construction/permits would have cost me around $1k per.

The rest is speculative without more details.

[urasim]

You sound inexperienced, impulsive and irascible if you operate under the assumption that everyone has a level of business expertise that is not directly implied by their posts. Name calling can go both ways...

Also, you have clearly not read many businesses plans or ideas, whether on these forums or elsewhere, if you assume that everyone who has a business idea is well-informed.

What a childish response. You said something that's so obvious that, given enough time, a child would come to the same conclusion with a bit of thought. Then you come back and attack me and refute nothing. You'd be better off just not responding at all. Your posts, throughout this thread, are that of an elitist. The sad part is you think you're helping.

Common sense is knowing that building a shop in the middle of nowhere, hidden behind shit, in an already over saturated market, or down streets with low traffic is a bad idea.

Common sense is knowing that if you do the labor yourself, you'll save a lot of money.

[Celista]

What a childish response.

Your posts are equally childish. Do you have anything better to do, other than pick fights on the internet?

[Manabomb]

You should have called a different architect or been more persistent about getting a price. He's not wrong, you did "steal" his time. But since he didn't give you a price beforehand...fuck that guy.

Yeah, the biggest problem is the guy not stating a price for his time. Stealing something that's free isn't exactly theft.

[urasim]

Your posts are equally childish. Do you have anything better to do, other than pick fights on the internet?

Do you have anything better to do than shitpost? I contested your silly statements and you post nothing but garbage.

[Deleted]

I was looking for a place to open a board game cafe. I spent months trying to find an affordable space. I finally found one, but the building would need way more money to renovate than I can afford. The owner's representative told me that it would be $12K - $15K to renovate. I knew that was a bunch of BS. I "knew" it would be at least $40K to renovate, and maybe more. I had a budget of $50K to renovate at he high end.

So, I called an architect to help me out. He told me that it would be about $5000 to draw up renovation plans, and that he would provide a 20 - 30 minute consultation at the building. I asked him no less than twice, if there would be a fee for the consultation. He never gave me an answer. He would just move on to whatever else he wanted to talk about.... mostly his reputation as an architect.

Today, he showed up at the building and said it would be close to $100K for renovations. At that point I knew I could not open the cafe' as I don't want to take a loan or spend more money than my budget. I had a $100K budget for everything - no loans, just my money.

Then as I told him - the architect - that I was not willing to spend that much, I was not going to open the cafe. He THEN said we needed to talk about his consultation fee. I told him that I asked him at least twice for what that fee would be, and he didn't give me a number. He even admitted that was true, however, he said "What did you think, that I was working for nothing?"

I said "I don't know, as I never did this before, but I look at it like this: many people give free consultations, in hopes of getting business." In this case, his fees would be $5000 or more. EDIT: I own a DJ business and offer 30 minutes of consultation at no charge.

So, I thanked him for his time, and started to leave..... He says "you just stole $200 of my time."

Never heard of an architect giving a free consultation. That sounds unlikely. Then again, he did not specify a fee, so fuck him.

pretentious wankers the lot of them from my experience, and I have too much experience unfortunately, so many are talent-less hacks who have no creativity or imagination and charge way to much just because you have to have a "qualification" that takes ages to get (and is mostly not worth the paper its printed on from a lot of the shit I see produced by them).

[Tailswipe]

Today, he showed up at the building and said it would be close to $100K for renovations. At that point I knew I could not open the cafe' as I don't want to take a loan or spend more money than my budget. I had a $100K budget for everything - no loans, just my money.

This is a universal problem I've experienced with Architects. They tend to want to build in the most expensive way possible to boost their fees.

[Deleted]

I guess what I'm saying is, don't cheap out on the architect or the construction companies. They really don't set the bar for "average" that high but an exceptional company will really make all the difference in the end result and its longevity.

You may also receive significantly more professional treatment from exceptional companies, they can be worth the cost.

In my experience good architects, and there are a few out there, dont charge more than shite ones, but they do more. They should act as project managers, not just designers, and take control of the process from design through to delivery and ensure the quality of their design is carried through and implemented. Yes you do pay for that "all in" service, but unless you really know what you are doing, you'll probably save more through proper management then you think compared to doing it yourself and making mistakes through inexperience.

Bad architects are just a waste of time.
Pretentious ones just want to design somethign that makes them look good...ie looks nice in a portfolio or on a magazine cover...but is totally impractical for the client...

Good architects should sit down with you and discuss your needs, not what you want to build, but what outcome you want, and may have better (often cheaper) suggestions on how you can achieve this.