Protection legion Discussion

[Beardyface]

I'm actually really happy with this. They've fixed nearly everything, and I find it much more interesting if we cannot achieve 100% uptime to shield block. We have to use it strategically. Neltharion's Fury could still use some tweaking, and Second Wind and Might of the Vyrkul are still dumb, but these changes give me more faith in the devs than I've had all alpha.

[NightTrain32]

Didn't Neltharion's Fury use to say you where rooted while the ability was in use? Or was that changed and I missed it and its just an unspoken part of the ability?

[Marok]

Overall...I'm pretty bummed out.

Sure we got battle cry and zerk rage, but they shafted Indomitable, Into the fray and Venegance, the latter because IP no longer half the rage cost of Focused rage..so its' only useful if you run it with ultimatium, otherwise it's a rage loss.

Shadowflame shield is viable now, and that's handy as our SB uptime will drop alot, can now use Shadowfame to cover gaps.

Mostly I just don't like how the changed IP's scaling, warriros don't end up with massive health pools, so their "Artifacts give alot of hp, scaling will get out of hand" argument is an odd one. It also devalues Last stand, wich again has no benefit when it comes to mitigation, at least before you could put up some beefy IP's when you had it up.

I was also looking forward to puttin more value into stamina/health aswell, but that's out the window.

Overall this build killed alot of syngery..meh

Vengeance not reducing the cost of Focused Rage is almost definitely a bug.

I agree that IP scaling with AP is strange though. It does get rid of a lot of synergy that IP had. I feel like there are better ways to control its scaling with HP instead of completely changing it.

Didn't Neltharion's Fury use to say you where rooted while the ability was in use? Or was that changed and I missed it and its just an unspoken part of the ability?

It never said you were rooted. That's always been a part of the ability.

[Beardyface]

Overall...I'm pretty bummed out.

Sure we got battle cry and zerk rage, but they shafted Indomitable, Into the fray and Venegance, the latter because IP no longer half the rage cost of Focused rage..so its' only useful if you run it with ultimatium, otherwise it's a rage loss.

Shadowflame shield is viable now, and that's handy as our SB uptime will drop alot, can now use Shadowfame to cover gaps.

Mostly I just don't like how the changed IP's scaling, warriros don't end up with massive health pools, so their "Artifacts give alot of hp, scaling will get out of hand" argument is an odd one. It also devalues Last stand, wich again has no benefit when it comes to mitigation, at least before you could put up some beefy IP's when you had it up.

I was also looking forward to puttin more value into stamina/health aswell, but that's out the window.

Overall this build killed alot of syngery..meh

I'm not reading this as IP is no longer taking maximum health into account - I think it still is - they just added the AP benefit so it scales better with gear. I guess we'll have to wait until someone tests it to know for sure.

[Marok]

I'm not reading this as IP is no longer taking maximum health into account - I think it still is - they just added the AP benefit so it scales better with gear. I guess we'll have to wait until someone tests it to know for sure.

It doesn't take max HP into account anymore. It's simply: 15 * AP. The percent health that you see in the formula is for Never Surrender.

[Ashenia]

I'm not reading this as IP is no longer taking maximum health into account - I think it still is - they just added the AP benefit so it scales better with gear. I guess we'll have to wait until someone tests it to know for sure.

Like I wrote above:

Our Indomitable talent or Last Stand wont give anything towards IP value which is bit sad. I had to equip STR/Mastery/Vers trinkets to get higher value on it as any stamina pure trinket gave nothing. That is imo POOR change.

IP with Scales proc 243->292k

In such situation Never Surrender is complete winner to increase IP as there is nothing else that helps you with it.

Example there is a 380 stamina trinket which push your value of IP by... 0. While a trinket with Versatility, Str, Mastery does. I doubt it's a good thing for us.. Well I guess Mastery/Haste is a way to go.

[Deleted]

Wow, so recklessness and Berserker Rage is back, this just get better and better.

Protection will be really fun in pvp.

[mindw0rk]

Mostly good changes. Shield block shouldnt have such high uptime anyway. Looks like they refuse to change artifact ability that noone likes and just buffed it over the top. This thing now deals 1800% AOE dmg with 45 seconds cooldown which makes it the most powerful artifact ability out of all classes. Still clunky as fk.

Anger Management now also lowers cd of Battle Cry. Does it mean that Protection spec got this ability also? With 2 set bonus, Anger Management looks like a really strong option now. You can have Last Stand on about 1 minute cooldown that gives you almost 100% health if 6 perks invested. We wanted self healing and this thing is crazy strong. You also get 100% stronger Ignore Pains during Last Stand.

Very sad they removed intercept from WarPath. I was theorycrafting about annoyance build with alot of stuns that required this talent, but now it is much worse. We still can lower cd of Heroic Leap to 18 seconds.

Scale of Earth: why they so obssessed with raising armor? Prot already has tons of physical mitigation. Give him some protection from magical attack.

[Ultramad]

Mostly good changes. Shield block shouldnt have such high uptime anyway. Looks like they refuse to change artifact ability that noone likes and just buffed it over the top. This thing now deals 1800% AOE dmg with 45 seconds cooldown which makes it the most powerful artifact ability out of all classes. Still clunky as fk.

Anger Management now also lowers cd of Battle Cry. Does it mean that Protection spec got this ability also? With 2 set bonus, Anger Management looks like a really strong option now. You can basically Last Stand on 1 minute cooldown that gives you almost 100% health if 6 perks invested. Thats crazy healing cooldown.

Very sad they removed intercept from WarPath. I was theorycrafting about annoyance build with alot of stuns that required this talent, but now it is much worse. We still can lower cd of Heroic Leap to 18 seconds.

Scale of Earth: why they so obssessed with raising armor? Prot already has tons of physical mitigation. Give him some protection from magical attack.

Honestly I'm fine w/the need to position and root myself for 4 seconds to use the artifact ability. I mean normally I'm doing the same thing to get the perfect shockwave off and that's not bothered me since they introduced shockwave. I'm very glad with what they've done with whatever heroic strike is called now and shield slam is probably going to be hitting like a jacked-up truck with all it's modifiers.

Zerker rage coming back makes me really happy. Just doing timewalking today and was sad when I zerker raged the fears in the different instances. Now that won't be going away. I don't hate the new Scales of the Earth, it's just a nice perk to have. Like everyone else I'm not confident that the lack of synergistic talents for IP is a good thing, however it might have been too powerful on progression with all those mixed in come raid time.

Good changes I think. Going the right direction. Hopefully I get into alpha now with mythic archi down. GLHF

[Ampere]

Like I wrote above:



Example there is a 380 stamina trinket which push your value of IP by... 0. While a trinket with Versatility, Str, Mastery does. I doubt it's a good thing for us.. Well I guess Mastery/Haste is a way to go.

They really killed a lot of the value of stamina with this build. Now mastery and strength are the only way to get bigger Ignore Pains afaik

[Beardyface]

Like I wrote above:



Example there is a 380 stamina trinket which push your value of IP by... 0. While a trinket with Versatility, Str, Mastery does. I doubt it's a good thing for us.. Well I guess Mastery/Haste is a way to go.

Yeah, I posted before you had done the testing and update to your post.

I was disappointed in the decision to remove Stam from effecting IP at first, but the more I think about it, the more I like the direction it could go. It's a bummer we can't use it with Last Stand or Indomitable anymore, but it fits in with the "damage tank" direction they seem to want to go with warrior. If we only had a way to boost our STR or Attack Power now, it would be really good.

My ideal solution would be tying it into Focused Rage somehow. Say, maybe, Focused Rage increased our attack power rather than buffing shield slam. That would set up some fun choices where you can either use every 40 rage on IP to smooth overall damage intake or use your rage on Focused Rage to buff less frequent but bigger IPs. It would also solve a lot of the DPS problems we have as an off tank, since we generate so much rage from taking damage. Of course, the current change to IP allows us to use STR trinkets or other accessories if we want to pour our resources into IP rather than overall passive mitigation.

I feel like this version of IP fits the class fantasy better - we just need one more good way to tie in an attack power buff and I feel like we'd be in a good spot.

[Deleted]

Pretty much all the Tank active abilities are very strong now.

Guardian one was slightly nerfed but its still obscenely powerful. 33% damage reflect for 20 seconds on a 90s cooldown is very strong. DKs get a very strong cleave that heals them for 200% of what it does on a 45s CD, though it doesn't generate a blood shield anymore. Paladins basically get a demoralizing shout.

Quite strong stuff. Problem I have with warrior one is that 1: it looks lame, and 2 that it is so annoying to use. Even though I do acknowledge that it is powerful.

[shyguybman]

Surprised nobody has talked about the new Artifact models.........
https://youtu.be/RvycibnEGtM?t=249

[Deleted]

Surprised nobody has talked about the new Artifact models.........
https://youtu.be/RvycibnEGtM?t=249

check a few pages back they were in the previous build.

[Marok]

I updated my Shield Block uptime spreadsheet to account for the latest build for anyone interested. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...-v8eOY/pubhtml

With these changes, going for 100% Shield Block uptime is basically out of the question.

[Minoss]

Anyone in the alfa can please check what's the difference (buff/nerf i think the second) on IP now that's AP based? Possibly with the same gear, ofc.
BTW, Armor is still the best way to get AP?

[Ashenia]

I was streaming last build and this testing Dragon Scales and with same gear I had 312k, now 212k/236k. Difference is big and it will imo become an issue if it wont scale with any form of hp. We will be going higher and higher with hp, so will boss melee /abilities damage, we will barely be moving up. Our IP might end up like on first test, being soaked after a tick of dot on is.

Of course we can gear mastery/vers and leave haste behind but with nerf of sb/hr/itf our haste is really needed or ss/rev.will be on 7/7.5s cd.

[dreaderus]

is shield charge gone in legion completely?

[Toppy]

is shield charge gone in legion completely?

Gladiator stance is gone, so, yes.

[Deleted]

so with the latest change to SB cd , does this mean we wil be going full mastery haste now?