[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Dastuross]

You're right, i don't have alpha atm so i based it on what i've seen of the spec so far "cough"blizzplsalpha"cough"

[OrcinusDrake]

More a problem with the judgement crit mechanic then with (new!)seraphim

[Slootbag]

Super busy week ffs, just speed-caught up.

I can back up the notion the US forum voices are usually heard a bit more, whether intentional or not definitely post in both if you can.

anyone else that want Seraphim back? i do, just not the way it is tho, instead of just giving straight up stats, it should directly affect our gameplay, like ascendance for shamans.

It feels so badass to use it and it looks great, it's a shame that it was removed, instead of being worked on.

I mean yeah, and just generally willing to buy any type of offensive or well-interactive CD within our talent tree. /yawn

[Demsi]

Super busy week ffs, just speed-caught up.

I can back up the notion the US forum voices are usually heard a bit more, whether intentional or not definitely post in both if you can.



I mean yeah, and just generally willing to buy any type of offensive or well-interactive CD within our talent tree. /yawn

The talent tree looks pretty shit, nothing that affects our gameplay in any meaningful or fun way.

Hoping for a rework here

[Deleted]

I honestly don't know what I'd do with myself on Prot without Sera. Everything I've come to associate with the spec comes down to it; the few fights I played HS on during progress I found myself sub-consciously pooling for it. I don't really have anything constructive to add, not that there's been much discussion lately. I just feel a bit sad I guess.

[Deleted]

Not that there's been much discussion lately. I just feel a bit sad I guess.

Echoes a lot of our sentiment, I feel. We've all been trying our best to get our voices heard and issues addressed by it seems those behind Prot have their heads in the sand. We've even got people such as Sloot who are good friends with the guys at Blizz campaigning for the same as we all have been here, yet nothing has really been done.

It sucks, but it's just the way things go I suppose. Nothing wrong with looking to new classes and/or roles for the future!

[celinamuna]

And we get wings (yay we actually have a dps cd), but at the same time LotP is still % missing health.

Everything else basically still applies.

[Deleted]

wings are back still no seraphim ResidentSleeper

[Fusoya]

Oh, hey, a DPS cooldown. #TheyListened

#SeraNextPatch?

[celinamuna]

Avenging Wrath
Return of AW is actually a very good change, we finally get a DPS CD (probably to replace HA), but the issue is that unlike HA, it is incredibly weak for survival.
While in MoP +healing % was extremely potent due to EF, and even current we have strong synergy with : SoI + SS, in WoD our self healing follows a very different damage model where we have very strong burst healing, but nothing between it. Cons self-healing (if talented) is an absolute joke, same with the Judgment one. So in reality our only self healing will be LotP (which again is problematic)and the absorbs off AS (possible double dip(?)). Overall I would prefer to see either a different defensive component (+crit chance on J?) or possibly some unique mechanic.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...44752?page=1#2

[Deleted]

Re-posted my feedback with the addition of mentioning that having Avenging Wrath back is nice, but really does nothing other than distract from the fact that none of the underlying issues with the spec have been even remotely addressed. If anyone has anything to add, please do so!

[YourPalFleisch]

Re-posted my feedback with the addition of mentioning that having Avenging Wrath back is nice, but really does nothing other than distract from the fact that none of the underlying issues with the spec have been even remotely addressed. If anyone has anything to add, please do so!

I agree with you, avenging wrath does absolutely zero in regards to the enjoyment of protection, it's certainly nice to have again (I miss wings) but it doesn't interact with our gameplay at all. Hit a button and our abilities and swings do 35% more *golfclap*, you're still jamming judgment and that's about it. Still moving to stack blessed hammers, still so bored you cry out but all that answers you is the hollow void of dev response.

[celinamuna]

I think AW was a good mechanic, when we had snapshotting, when we had vengeance which allowed us to get mini cds with it, when we had HA.
A flat 30% dmg gain w/o any other burst mechanics is nice, but won't actually change anything. Even with other CDs, AW wasn't that exciting after we lost EF snapshotting.

[Deleted]

It sucks, but it's just the way things go I suppose. Nothing wrong with looking to new classes and/or roles for the future!

I've decided to go for Brewmaster or Demon Hunter. All the other tanks look unappealing to me, and even though BrM isn't really well-explored in Alpha yet the class does appeal to me. I'll give it a proper test drive but I quite like current BrM and the changes to Legion look least intrusive so far. Emphasis on so far.

Agree on Wings. It really doesn't do anything for the class at this point, while as mentioned HA was actually something that when utilized properly gave you a massive time window of uptime, allowing for easier pooling and what-not. I get the impression that there's some massive component missing that makes everything (except Judgment spamming and Hammer malarkey) fit in. Feels like Prot is just spare parts lying around thrown together with no real purpose.

[Reghame]

Avenging Wrath
Return of AW is actually a very good change, we finally get a DPS CD (probably to replace HA), but the issue is that unlike HA, it is incredibly weak for survival.
While in MoP +healing % was extremely potent due to EF, and even current we have strong synergy with : SoI + SS, in WoD our self healing follows a very different damage model where we have very strong burst healing, but nothing between it. Cons self-healing (if talented) is an absolute joke, same with the Judgment one. So in reality our only self healing will be LotP (which again is problematic)and the absorbs off AS (possible double dip(?)). Overall I would prefer to see either a different defensive component (+crit chance on J?) or possibly some unique mechanic.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...44752?page=1#2

its actually pretty good for healing purposes since we still have a lot of absorbs and healing via artifact perks and what not. on other news, your damage can get pretty insane with certain talents and some luck in wings having shield reset multiple times and truck people for 200-300k a hit while also shielding you at the same time. but i would rather prot have an offensive attack in it's place that sacrifices defense for offense to add some flavor to the kit rather than use avenger shield judge off CD and spam your shield and heal.

[celinamuna]

its actually pretty good for healing purposes since we still have a lot of absorbs and healing via artifact perks and what not. on other news, your damage can get pretty insane with certain talents and some luck in wings having shield reset multiple times and truck people for 200-300k a hit while also shielding you at the same time. but i would rather prot have an offensive attack in it's place that sacrifices defense for offense to add some flavor to the kit rather than use avenger shield judge off CD and spam your shield and heal.

I mean, it does get better with all the perks unlocked, but my issue is how much exactly is that going to contribute to our survival ? Because i'd imagine that it will do less than a 20% DR we get from our holy pony. As such it will be a pure DPS cd, which we can compare with HA, which actually has insane survival benefit of 30s+ SotR walls (on live)

[bicycle]

I've decided to go for Brewmaster or Demon Hunter. All the other tanks look unappealing to me, and even though BrM isn't really well-explored in Alpha yet the class does appeal to me. I'll give it a proper test drive but I quite like current BrM and the changes to Legion look least intrusive so far. Emphasis on so far.

Agree on Wings. It really doesn't do anything for the class at this point, while as mentioned HA was actually something that when utilized properly gave you a massive time window of uptime, allowing for easier pooling and what-not. I get the impression that there's some massive component missing that makes everything (except Judgment spamming and Hammer malarkey) fit in. Feels like Prot is just spare parts lying around thrown together with no real purpose.

The brewmaster design of having your rotational skills reduce the CD on your mitigation skills seems like a fantastic way to implement a rotation besides the basic builder/spender style we've had in most classes for a long time now. I wish they'd do that for paladins.

[Reghame]

I mean, it does get better with all the perks unlocked, but my issue is how much exactly is that going to contribute to our survival ? Because i'd imagine that it will do less than a 20% DR we get from our holy pony. As such it will be a pure DPS cd, which we can compare with HA, which actually has insane survival benefit of 30s+ SotR walls (on live)

no clue honestly, but 30% is a lot of healing, even more so when you take into account how LotP works and how the hot from it.
Its also good to note that the shield from AS double dips from wings since the damage is boosted by 30% during it making it shield larger, and then the heal amount is ALSO increased by another 30% because of the extra healing part.

[celinamuna]

no clue honestly, but 30% is a lot of healing, even more so when you take into account how LotP works and how the hot from it.
Its also good to note that the shield from AS double dips from wings since the damage is boosted by 30% during it making it shield larger, and then the heal amount is ALSO increased by another 30% because of the extra healing part.

Lotp's hot is a fixed AP value (and i don't think it was that strong last i tested it). You can get 2 (?) lotp's into wings possibly 3. Like i said, i don't think that putting majority of "consistent" survival benefit on AS hits is a good idea.

[Deleted]

The brewmaster design of having your rotational skills reduce the CD on your mitigation skills seems like a fantastic way to implement a rotation besides the basic builder/spender style we've had in most classes for a long time now. I wish they'd do that for paladins.

That's what's drawing me to the class at the moment. I've spent a lot of time thinking and theorizing on what makes a class engaging and interesting to play without overcomplicating things unnecessarily, nor arbitrarily forcing a system without any goal simply for the sake of it. I'll have to give it a run before I can fully say I'll stick with it but the interaction looks very appealing so far.

Personally I think it's great to reward proper resource management and ability priority (or rotation if you will) with smaller cooldown windows on mitigation. I'm leaning towards this implementation if the damage-mitigation trade-off doesn't return, and in theory I'm fairly happy with it. Only downside I see right off the bat is that it doesn't have a particularly high ceiling to push, I'd want there to be another layer on top of that although I can't say what I'd like that to be outside of trading mitigation for DPS.