Disclaimer: New and expanded on lore is not a Retcon

[Colonel Sandor]

I've been seeing a lot of people here, when discussing Chronicle, start yelling out "RETCON RETCON RETCON" at every new piece of lore we get. Just because we now understand how things happened and learn information we had no clue on before, doesn't count it as this negative retcon. The only thing I've found to be a retcon is *SPOILERS?* The story of Aegwyn *END SPOILERS*.

Blizzard is allowed to explain things and fill in blanks.

[Pandragon]

they changed a lot. just in the first 2 chapters.

Sargeras no longer corrupted by the Nathrezim.

Titans are large planet like beings instead of made out of metal.

The Elemental Lords warring with one another before the Old God's arrived instead of after.

The Old Gods showing up to Azeroth before the titans did.

The Keepers shaping Azeroth instead of the Titans.

The Aesir and Vanir are now the titans constructs instead of the titans subraces.

[Sharps]

they changed a lot. just in the first 2 chapters.

Sargeras no longer corrupted by the Nathrezim.

Titans are large planet like beings instead of made out of metal.

The Elemental Lords warring with one another before the Old God's arrived instead of after.

The Old Gods showing up to Azeroth before the titans did.

The Keepers shaping Azeroth instead of the Titans.

The Aesir and Vanir are now the titans constructs instead of the titans subraces.

Those first two chapters change things for the better.

Sargeras, a Titan who's job was to hunt and imprison demons, being coruupted and driven mad by demons, is lame and yet another "corrupted and went mad" backstory. Sargeras now has a twisted sense of logic. Destroy all life and remake the universe with him at the head so that he can ensure the Void cannot manifest into reality. Much better.

Titans are still made out of metal. They are not specifically mentioned anywhere in the book as planet sized. If you look closely at the art of Sargeras cleaving a planet his form his corporeal, like a spell.

Elemental Lords warring with each other as a natural force on Azeroth with the Old Gods coming after and enslaving them makes more sense than what we had before, which implies the Elemental Lords were always their minions, which didn't make sense given what the two forces are and what they represent thematically. One Fire, Earth, Air and Water, the other eldritch beings bent on turning reality into a hellish nightmare.

Titans coming later to free Azeroth from the Old Gods and their Elemental slaves makes more sense. They then found the World Soul, figured they had to imprison the Old Gods rather than destroy the planet, and Ordered it as such to nuture the World Soul. Creating the Titan Forged to aid the Keepers who then were afflicted with the Curse of Flesh to become mortal races.

I don't see that as a problem. The Assir and Vanir deal isn't world-breaking.

[Kerrigan009]

I've been seeing a lot of people here, when discussing Chronicle, start yelling out "RETCON RETCON RETCON" at every new piece of lore we get. Just because we now understand how things happened and learn information we had no clue on before, doesn't count it as this negative retcon. The only thing I've found to be a retcon is *SPOILERS?* The story of Aegwyn *END SPOILERS*.

Blizzard is allowed to explain things and fill in blanks.

Did they explain who C'thun KO'd? Because before it was a titan and now that seems a lot less likely.

[Sentynel]

they changed a lot. just in the first 2 chapters.

Sargeras no longer corrupted by the Nathrezim.

It depends on how you interpret it. It's still true that the Nathrezim talked [about the Void] to Sargeras. What if it was just a prank and Sargy went full rampage for nothing?

The Old Gods showing up to Azeroth before the titans did.

I think this was always the case.

I agree with the rest, tho.

[Sharps]

Did they explain who C'thun KO'd? Because before it was a titan and now that seems a lot less likely.

The Old Gods, who enslaved the natural occurring elemental forces, were defeated and imprisoned by the Titan Keepers and their metal Titan Forged forces. One Old God, Y'Shaarj, was ripped from the earth and from the wound he left drew the Arcane blood of Azeroth into the surface, creating the Well of Eternity, the giant font of Arcane magic. The Old Gods could not be ripped from the world as such without taking the World Soul with them so the rest, N'Zoth and Yogg-Saron, were imprisoned. C'thun feigned death, and later emerged during the War of the Sifting Sands and then he was destroyed. Old Gods can be killed by the player and cannot return.

[Kerrigan009]

The Old Gods, who enslaved the natural occurring elemental forces, were defeated and imprisoned by the Titan Keepers and their metal Titan Forged forces. One Old God, Y'Shaarj, was ripped from the earth and from the wound he left drew the Arcane blood of Azeroth into the surface, creating the Well of Eternity, the giant font of Arcane magic. The Old Gods could not be ripped from the world as such without taking the World Soul with them so the rest, N'Zoth and Yogg-Saron, were imprisoned. C'thun feigned death, and later emerged during the War of the Sifting Sands and then he was destroyed. Old Gods can be killed by the player and cannot return.

Er. Thanks, but I meant this:

http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Prophecy_of_C'Thun

"In the time before time, when the world was still in its infancy, a battle between a Titan and a being of unimaginable evil and power raged on this very soil. The prophecy is unclear about whether or not the Titan was vanquished in this battle but it illustrates that a Titan fell. An Old God had also fallen - or so it was thought."

[Qualia]

Er. Thanks, but I meant this:

http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Prophecy_of_C'Thun

"In the time before time, when the world was still in its infancy, a battle between a Titan and a being of unimaginable evil and power raged on this very soil. The prophecy is unclear about whether or not the Titan was vanquished in this battle but it illustrates that a Titan fell. An Old God had also fallen - or so it was thought."

Prophecy of C'Thun came from the records of Skeram - who is an Old Gods' follower. They can be, and are known to be biased (i.e: the "they do not live, they do not die" quote even though they certainly died). Hence the record isn't 100% trustworthy. Skeram probably were trying to buff his master up.

they changed a lot. just in the first 2 chapters.

Not really. For a self claimed lore nerd, you seems to be a bit slow on updating your lore or interpreting them. Let me address your point one by one - feel free to tell me if any of my argument is wrong.

Sargeras no longer corrupted by the Nathrezim.

This hasn't been canon for the last few year. The latest canon already stated that he wasn't corrupted - not in the mind affliction sense. If you want to complain about "Sargeras no longer corrupted by Nathrezim", you are a few years late. I suggest updating your information more frequently.

Sargeras came to believe that a flaw in the fabric of creation set up an unwinnable battle against evil. He decided that the other titans were deeply misguided in trying to establish order throughout creation. Under the circumstances, the struggle was futile. The universe had to be destroyed utterly and remade without the underlying defect. Only then could true order be achieved. Thus, Sargeras conceived of a sweeping campaign to bring about the end of all things: the Burning Crusade.

So now, they only expanded on that idea (what the flaw was, why the struggle was futile, etc.). In fact, you can still consider Sargeras being corrupted by the Nathrezim since he started his dark-side action after what they told him - just not the corruption in the magical sense.

Titans are large planet like beings instead of made out of metal.

We don't know how they look in their normal form. While they awake as living worlds, they clearly undergo changes instead of just flying around as planets. Going by the picture of Sargeras shattering Mardum, it's clearly that they can, at least, have a form that is more human-looking. How do you know they aren't metallic skinned in that form?

The Elemental Lords warring with one another before the Old God's arrived instead of after.

Nothing stated that they weren't fighting with each other after they got enslaved by the Old Gods.

The Old Gods showing up to Azeroth before the titans did.

The OGs showing up to Azeroth after the Titan were only information taken from the Tribunal of Ages. If you've read the Chronicle, you'd have known that information there were corrupted and modified by Loken in order to whitewash his sins.

The Keepers shaping Azeroth instead of the Titans.

The game keep referring to Titan Keepers as Titans anyway (i.e: Ra is the most recent example). It was a general inconsistency in terminology, at least it's cleared now.

The Aesir and Vanir are now the titans constructs instead of the titans subraces.

Aesir & Vanir being titans subraces came from Tribunal of Ages, which is corrupted - see above, or the RPG - which is non-canon as stated by Blizzard.

You see? There isn't any irrefutable inconsistency between most recent canonical lore and Chronicle lore. All of your "old lore" could apply to Chronicle lore. So no, they didn't changed a lot. Something were changed, but none of the things you pointed out were one of those.

[Deleted]

The Old Gods showing up to Azeroth before the titans did.

You call yourself a lore nerd and don't even know about the Tribunal of Ages retcon? Old Gods always came first, the Tribunal of Ages retconned that in WotLK and now the Chronicle fix the problem and we are back to the first version, with the Tribunal of Ages being Loken's version of history.

[Kerrigan009]

Prophecy of C'Thun came from the records of Skeram - who is an Old Gods' follower. They can be, and are known to be biased (i.e: the "they do not live, they do not die" quote even though they certainly died). Hence the record isn't 100% trustworthy. Skeram probably were trying to buff his master up.

I feel so lied to right now. If you can't trust a prophet then who can you trust? I am gonna kill that bastard.

[Qualia]

I feel so lied to right now. If you can't trust a prophet then who can you trust? I am gonna kill that bastard.

Well, I trusted that as well until MoP came with Mogu's poem about them killing Y'Shaarj. Now I found out that apparently the Mogus lied too, they were owned by Y'Shaarj until Aman'thul gave them a hand. Can't trust those NPCs when it comes to describing themselves or their masters!

[Fritters154]

The Old Gods showing up to Azeroth before the titans did.

I don't remember this ever not being accepted. It was pretty strongly suggested by the lore that existed before if not outright said by Blizz. Most of the Titan built cities were prisons for the Old Gods after all, with nothing really suggesting that Titan constructs existing on Azeroth before the Old Gods.

[Traveler Voltin]

trolls no longer predate titans. they came from titan blood.

[Deleted]

trolls no longer predate titans. they came from titan blood.

Actually, we still don't know. For example, the proto-dragons are natives to Azeroth, they came from the elementals. It's still possible that the first trolls could be elemental humanoids that were affected by the curse of flesh.

[thesmall001]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/headcanon

You see the thing about how you interpret abstract information from tertiary sources is...

[Aquamonkey]

I don't remember this ever not being accepted. It was pretty strongly suggested by the lore that existed before if not outright said by Blizz. Most of the Titan built cities were prisons for the Old Gods after all, with nothing really suggesting that Titan constructs existing on Azeroth before the Old Gods.

It was implied in Vanilla by Lore Keeper of Norgannon. It was explicitly stated by Tribunal of Ages in WotLK. It was implied in WoW Magazine. Chronicle reverted it back to WC3 (with modifications) and had Tribunal of Ages being tampered with by Loken.

[Mace]

I've been seeing a lot of people here, when discussing Chronicle, start yelling out "RETCON RETCON RETCON" at every new piece of lore we get. Just because we now understand how things happened and learn information we had no clue on before, doesn't count it as this negative retcon. The only thing I've found to be a retcon is *SPOILERS?* The story of Aegwyn *END SPOILERS*.

Blizzard is allowed to explain things and fill in blanks.

the heart of what you're saying is true, although i think many of us are mis-using the term retcon and actually meaning developed, or rather changed the original direction.

Certainly some facts have changed, but it's more like they've been re-ordered than completely redone.

For me, it's observing the growth of the project over time, new introdcutions seem to have direction in one way, only to be turned in another, it's not really a retcon, but it feels like it.. classic example was night elves at first presented as the first of the races kinda beginning of history of the mortals, with troll history hinted as happening after, but the direction changed, and when it was expanded they swapped places - it wasn't a retcon as such, but it was a change, the original descriptions were painting a different origin story, but nothing was explicit. and they're allowed to do that. They also take a lot of effort to make it fit with what they said, spinning earlier descriptions and putting them in a light that fits the new direction.

it's well within their rights to do that. Sure we got an idea in our heads of what they were saying, and we liked it, so when they changed the thrust of that, it ruined our head version and it's abit annoying, but hey it happens all the time, it's their product.

But I do understand the frustration many feel, because it changes someof the things they liked or the things the earlier versions implied they really liked, not only that, the change oftne makes them feel they were lied to or conned, something made out to be this amazing thing, powerful and nice and wonderful..then next minute, meh it's not all that, x,y, z come in and totally bulldoze it with ease and you're left wondering how genuine any of it. This is the danger of it

THe worse is when it comes to relative strength, you desecribe something as amazingly strong, and yet every subsequen edition everyone and their mother is defeating and beating these things, and you just htink,..hmm. well that's kinda rubbish.

[warzerotwo]

It's the retconniest retcon to ever retcon. DC Comics is currently reading over Chronicle and shaking it's head.

[Deleted]

It's the retconniest retcon to ever retcon. DC Comics is currently reading over Chronicle and shaking it's head.

This, we will be talking about pre and post retcon Old Gods in the future versus threads.

[Enthralled]

Honestly, anyone interested in the uses and misuses of the Retroactive Continuity device should read the article about it on TV Tropes:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retcon

Retroactive Continuity.
Reframing past events to serve a current plot need. The ideal retcon clarifies a question alluded to without adding excessive new questions. In its most basic form, this is any plot point that was not intended from the beginning. The most preferred use is where it contradicts nothing, even though it was changed later on.

...

Often, it's used to serve a new plot by changing its context; however, it's also done when the creators are caught writing a story that violates continuity and isn't very plausible.

...

See also Ass Pull, which is something that was not properly set up before it is sprung on the audience. It is related to Deus ex Machina. Some but not all retcons are Ass Pulls, and a good retcon can actually improve the current narrative. A good way to get away with a retcon is to reveal new implications or motivations for events that have already been established.
Smoother retcons won't be distinguishable as such, and can even make what was initially an Ass Pull later look like everything was Just as Planned.

The entire article is excellent.