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  1. #1741
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    In number 2) for the man he's still a father. Otherwise there would be no grounds for him to pay child support. The only difference is what he chooses to do with being a parent.

    Which, guess what? So can a woman. Since the in your scenario the guy already waved fatherhood away, she has sole custody. So she can give it away to adoption even in a country that requires both parents to sign the form. She can give it away in a baby hatch. But she has the option of not becoming a mother. Also, the risk health of abortion in early period isn't monumentally high. Neither is pregnancy generally speaking. And considering how fathers walking out on their families are already subject to social stigma and that abandoning your children sounds like something that could lead to guilt and other mental stigma, the same would apply to men who would choose not to be parents.

    But it's clear as day you're being intellectually dishonest right now, so have fun doing so by yourself.
    Bolded 1: Wouldn't that forfeit child support from the man? Sounds beneficial to both.

    Bolded 2: Good. Mental/social sitgma is a risk for both parties.

    And yadda yadda, stuff about intellectually dishonest, bla bla bla...
    Last edited by Anastacy; 2016-03-18 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #1742
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain View Post
    He can choose to have sex with someone, or he can choose not to. Just like a woman. Once he has sex, though, he cannot choose whether he becomes a parent or not. The woman can. Is it that you don't see the distinction, or is it that you don't care?
    I'm not arguing whether or not he has a choice in becoming a biological father.

    I'm arguing that choices can suck, even if you have them.

    Please tell me how "abortion vs. carry to term" is an easy and favorable choice to make.

  3. #1743
    Quote Originally Posted by Anastacy View Post
    Your habit of not addressing my points is tiring.

    Please stop quoting me.
    Back to you, ok?

    Edit: I'm amazed that you can detect a "habit" from one post, by the way.

  4. #1744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain
    Once he has sex, though, he cannot choose whether he becomes a parent or not. The woman can. Is it that you don't see the distinction, or is it that you don't care?
    Women can't choose not to be a parent. They choose to remove the fetus from their uterus. Is it that you don't see the distinction, or is it that you don't care?

  5. #1745
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain View Post
    Whose talking about extorting? Child support is automatic in most places.
    And also applies in cases of rape (of the male).

  6. #1746
    Quote Originally Posted by Anastacy View Post
    I'm not arguing whether or not he has a choice in becoming a biological father.

    I'm arguing that choices can suck, even if you have them.

    Please tell me how "abortion vs. carry to term" is an easy and favorable choice to make.
    I guess I don't see how that's related to the discussion? I don't recall talking about choices being easy or favorable.
    Last edited by Drakain; 2016-03-18 at 09:02 PM.

  7. #1747
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    People keep making this point over and over and over. This would be a valid point if this situation boiled down to fairness in ease of separating yourself from an unwanted child, but it doesn't. There are differences between cost and impact, as well as rights, between abortion and any sort of legal absolution.
    You could always require the man to cover/share the cost of abortion should he decide to opt out. Here goes difference in costs. The impact I assume is in terms of health risk, which is rather small in early abortions as it is now, and is going to get more and more obsolete as medicine progresses further.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  8. #1748
    Quote Originally Posted by Hraklea View Post
    Women can't choose not to be a parent. They choose to remove the fetus from their uterus. Is it that you don't see the distinction, or is it that you don't care?
    Tell you what. Show me the cumulative child support a woman has paid for her aborted fetus then we can talk.

  9. #1749
    Partying in Valhalla
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamburger View Post
    Consequences after the fact brought on solely by the woman therefor out of his control
    The consequences aren't brought on by the woman. They simply weren't prevented by the woman. The consequences are brought on by the initial act.

  10. #1750
    Quote Originally Posted by Hraklea View Post
    Women can't choose not to be a parent. They choose to remove the fetus from their uterus. Is it that you don't see the distinction, or is it that you don't care?
    They said "become" not to "be". Does a woman become a parent when she aborts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  11. #1751
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain View Post
    I guess I don't see how that's related to the discussion? I don't recall talking about the choice being easy or favorable.
    Because it's being expressed that a woman has choices, as if it's exceedingly beneficial for her to have them, based solely on the merit that he has them.

  12. #1752
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    You could always require the man to cover/share the cost of abortion should he decide to opt out. Here goes difference in costs. The impact I assume is in terms of health risk, which is rather small in early abortions as it is now, and is going to get more and more obsolete as medicine progresses further.
    It certainly is lower than the risks that come with continuing pregancy and giving birth.

  13. #1753
    Quote Originally Posted by Anastacy View Post
    Because it's being expressed that a woman has choices, as if it's exceedingly beneficial for her to have them, based solely on the merit that he has them.
    The one who brought up the "exceedingly beneficial" stuff was you.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2016-03-18 at 09:08 PM. Reason: My grammar sucks today <.<
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  14. #1754
    Quote Originally Posted by Anastacy View Post
    Because it's being expressed that a woman has choices, as if it's exceedingly beneficial for her to have them.
    I haven't expressed that. But wouldn't you agree that it's generally better to have a choice, even if they're not particularly good ones?

  15. #1755
    Quote Originally Posted by Anastacy View Post
    I'm not arguing whether or not he has a choice in becoming a biological father.

    I'm arguing that choices can suck, even if you have them.

    Please tell me how "abortion vs. carry to term" is an easy and favorable choice to make.
    Women have a veto when it comes to children. It leads to abuse.
    In the end if a woman doesn't want children , she doesn't ... using birth control or abortion.
    If a man doesn't want children, ... he needs to use trust...

  16. #1756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain
    Tell you what. Show me the cumulative child support a woman has paid for her aborted fetus then we can talk.
    I'll take that as an "I don't see the distinction". That has been explained many times in this thread, the search button might help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes
    They said "become" not to "be". Does a woman become a parent when she aborts?
    That depends on how you define a parent, I guess. If I die now (a lightning bolt, omg!), does my mother stops being a mother? I'm not sure how that's relevant, to be honest.

  17. #1757
    Quote Originally Posted by Annoying View Post
    The consequences aren't brought on by the woman. They simply weren't prevented by the woman. The consequences are brought on by the initial act.
    When I agree to spot someone when they have to do some sports aktivity in school that necessiates that and then just don't catch them, then those consequences wouldn't be brought on by me either, they simply weren't prevented by me. (Not that I would think of doing that, but apparently others might.)

  18. #1758
    Quote Originally Posted by Hraklea View Post
    I'll take that as an "I don't see the distinction". That has been explained many times in this thread, the search button might help.



    That depends on how you define a parent, I guess. If I die now (a lightning bolt, omg!), does my mother stops being a mother? I'm not sure how that's relevant, to be honest.
    You can take it how you like it. I'll take your comment as meaning you actually realize your point is silly.

  19. #1759
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain View Post
    I haven't expressed that.
    I don't believe I said that you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakain View Post
    But wouldn't you agree that it's generally better to have a choice, even if they're not particularly good ones?
    No, I think 2 shitty choices is always shitty.

  20. #1760
    Quote Originally Posted by padie View Post
    Women have a veto when it comes to children. It leads to abuse.
    In the end if a woman doesn't want children , she doesn't ... using birth control or abortion (or abstinence).
    If a man doesn't want children, ... he needs to use trust (or birth control or abstinence)...
    Offered some more options for you.

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