Men should have the right to ‘abort’ responsibility, Swedish political group says

[Noradin]

That depends on how you define a parent, I guess. If I die now (a lightning bolt, omg!), does my mother stops being a mother? I'm not sure how that's relevant, to be honest.

You are already born, are you not?
I never heard of abortion by lightning bolt.

[Drakain]

I don't believe I said that you did.



No, I think 2 shitty choices is always shitty.

So, if I understand you, you're argument is: "You shouldn't complain about your lack of a choice, because the choices can be crappy sometimes, so be happy with what someone else chose for you?"

[Mehrunes]

I'm not arguing whether or not he has a choice in becoming a biological father.

I'm arguing that choices can suck, even if you have them.

Please tell me how "abortion vs. carry to term" is an easy and favorable choice to make.

And "become a father" vs "abandon my child" is easier?

[padie]

Offered some more options for you.

Yes, birth control... like the pill (mostly used in long time relations) and abstinence... really? Want me to drop you in the nearest monetary?

[Hraklea]

You can take it how you like it. I'll take your comment as meaning you actually realize your point is silly.

So saying "here's the explanation" means "my point is silly". I have no idea how to answer that.

[Drakain]

I suspect the vast majority of the time it is, yeah.

Why do you think that?

[Hraklea]

You are already born, are you not? I never heard of abortion by lightning bolt.

How is that relevant at all?

A parent is a parent, a dead child is a dead child. Why does the death cause make a difference?

[Katie N]

Women have a veto when it comes to children. It leads to abuse.
In the end if a woman doesn't want children , she doesn't ... using birth control or abortion.
If a man doesn't want children, ... he needs to use trust...

I didn't want a child but I didn't want to abort either, now I have a daughter. Best would be if it didn't happen at all.

[Anastacy]

So, if I understand you, you're argument is: "You shouldn't complain about your lack of a choice, because the choices can be crappy sometimes, so be happy with what someone else chose for you."

Never said one couldn't complain...

And "become a father" vs "abandon my child" is easier?

Uh...no...I've been arguing that both sets of choices are shitty?

[padie]

I suspect the vast majority of the time it is, yeah.

you do know that sounds like sexism.

[Drakain]

Never said one couldn't complain...



Uh...no...I've been arguing that both sets of choices are shitty?

That's good, because I think that's basically what we're doing in this thread .

[Tennis]

I don't see how a man can force a woman to abort her child and I have zero idea how you came to that from what i wrote.

All I'm saying is if you can't afford a kid on your own don't have one, you should prepare for the fact that you could end up being the sole supporter. Since woman has all the power right now the onus should be solely on them to be responsible. it's not a perfect system but it's the most equal.


Consequences after the fact brought on solely by the woman therefor out of his control

This doesn't add up at all.
If she can't afford the child on her own?
She didn't give birth to the child by herself you know? It takes a man's sperm to activate her ovaries.
Consequently, it is more than reasonable for the man to pay for half.

[Shamburger]

The consequences aren't brought on by the woman. They simply weren't prevented by the woman. The consequences are brought on by the initial act.

Semantics... Choosing not to act is still an act in-itself...

This doesn't add up at all.
If she can't afford the child on her own?
She didn't give birth to the child by herself you know? It takes a man's sperm to activate her ovaries.
Consequently, it is more than reasonable for the man to pay for half.

Maybe this is where our opinions differ.
She 100% gave birth by herself. From the moment of conception she made all choices in relation to the fetus/child. Including whether to abort or carry to birth. Until men are given equal rights (which will never happen obviously because of bodily autonomy) Choice is 100% on women, therefor responsibility should be 100% on women.

[Anastacy]

Yes, birth control... like the pill (mostly used in long time relations) and abstinence... really? Want me to drop you in the nearest monetary?

No, birth control as in vasectomy and condoms (for the man, at least).

Hey, I said I offered you more options. I didn't guarantee you'd like them.

[Deleted]

This doesn't add up at all.
If she can't afford the child on her own?
She didn't give birth to the child by herself you know? It takes a man's sperm to activate her ovaries.
Consequently, it is more than reasonable for the man to pay for half.

Lolwut? No.

[Anastacy]

That's good, because I think that's basically what we're doing in this thread .

No, we're arguing whether or not a man should have the option to legally financially "abort" a child.

I don't think anyone's arguing whether or not unwanted pregnancies cause complicated and tough decisions for people.

[Tennis]

And you're out to shitpost as usual. Do you never tire of that? Also, newsflash: so do women, they still can opt out of parenthood if they get pregnant.

Absolutely ridiculous. They can opt out. They shouldn't be forced to opt out. We are civilized people and it's 2016.

[Noradin]

How is that relevant at all?

A parent is a parent, a dead child is a dead child. Why does the death cause make a difference?

When turns an accumulation of cells into a child?
If you argue that it turns into a child right at the beginning of pregnancy then abortion should not be legal unless both the woman and the child are sure to die from medical complications.

[Drakain]

Because without actually becoming pregnant or having any other innate connection, I really doubt most people immediately frame it that way in a real way. Not to mention the choice is between "sign a piece of paper and forget it ever happened" or "pay lots of money for 18 years," so it's already a reduced version of the choice the woman faces.

I guess I can see that. I don't know that I agree a 'vast majority' of men would do that. I'm a man, and I want children. I dated someone for years that didn't so that's what we did, and that's fine. But I would have been happy to support and nurture them if they came along. I don't think I'm unusual in that regard, either.

[Noradin]

No, birth control as in vasectomy and condoms (for the man, at least).

Hey, I said I offered you more options. I didn't guarantee you'd like them.

We are agruing about cases where contraceptions fail and both partners did agree not to have a child before having sex.