Sargeras' Size

[Philosopino]

They just don't build on their lore that much. Or they just didn't explain if it's just a representation. If that planet is like the size of Orgrimmar then maybe it's more understandable but you can't fit millions of demonic hordes in that space.

[Kronik85]

Otherwise, Sargeras emerging from the portal on top of the WoE would make no sense. No matter how massive the portal was, I doubt it was big enough for a planet sized being to cross. And yes, that's Sargeras, as stated in the book, not his avatar.

Titans are like cats, if they can get their head through the rest will follow :P.

[Explorer]

Well, they are pictures, not actual photographs ^^ And art has always been pretty free to do what they please.

What you gonna do with this? Oh look, they hung Jesus on a cross but here he is bigger than a planet?

Eeeeexacly this. Sure it's just a metaphore that he cleaves a planes as a watermellon. More likely that he just landed and cast a 5-min channeled spell that obliterated it. Deathwing was able to cast Cataclysm spell that cracked the surface and even blow up all life. No wonder a Titan was able to do same and more. Heck, even Ner'zhul tore a planet with the help of couple of artifacts.
So I don't even think it proves that he is billion times stronger than OGs, he could just channel the spell and blow the planet befor they could know what hit them. We don't now in what would it result if he lasted in an open battle with 3-4 OG at once.

[Qualia]

Eeeeexacly this. Sure it's just a metaphore that he cleaves a planes as a watermellon. More likely that he just landed and cast a 5-min channeled spell that obliterated it. Deathwing was able to cast Cataclysm spell that cracked the surface and even blow up all life. No wonder a Titan was able to do same and more. Heck, even Ner'zhul tore a planet with the help of couple of artifacts.
So I don't even think it proves that he is billion times stronger than OGs, he could just channel the spell and blow the planet befor they could know what hit them. We don't now in what would it result if he lasted in an open battle with 3-4 OG at once.

But it wasn't a metaphor. It literally said that he cleaved the corrupted world with a single strike.

With a heave of his blade, Sargeras split the world in two. The resultant explosion consumed the Old Gods and their energies, but it killed the nascent titan as well.

So unless you are suggesting that Sargeras likes to pose with his sword while casting his spell because he thinks that makes him looks awesome, no, it wasn't a metaphor. And come on, Aman'thul, the less experienced and weaker Pantheon member (when compared to Sargeras) effortlessly ripped Y'Shaarj apart with one arm and a single pluck. I doubt 3 or 4 OGs would've made much of a difference to Sargeras.

[shoc]

Look at pictures from OP? Both pictures are taken from the Chronicles. One represents Sargeras cleaving a planet in half while on the other he's marching alongside his demon army (Felhounds and Pit Lords are even on the picture for comparison). Based on that we can assume he can change his size.

inb4 in-game sizes doesn't matter, just watch the Warlords cinematic and use Mannoroth as a starting point.

Yes but you are missing my point. Chronicle explicitly states that Titans were too big to come down to Azeroth personally which is why they created the Watchers.

Sargeras is a Titan first and foremost. We know Demons like KJ and Manny can change their size but there is no evidence to suggest that Sargeras can do that too.

In fact, if you make the logical assumption that Sargeras is still bound by Titan rules then it would make sense that Sargeras too had to create his equivalent of a Watcher to meddle with Azeroth. And that was the Avatar of Sargeras.

[Caerule]

Yes but you are missing my point. Chronicle explicitly states that Titans were too big to come down to Azeroth personally which is why they created the Watchers.

Sargeras is a Titan first and foremost. We know Demons like KJ and Manny can change their size but there is no evidence to suggest that Sargeras can do that too.

In fact, if you make the logical assumption that Sargeras is still bound by Titan rules then it would make sense that Sargeras too had to create his equivalent of a Watcher to meddle with Azeroth. And that was the Avatar of Sargeras.

Exactly this. The book states the Titans are the size of planets. Sargeras literally destroys one.

It also in clearly confirms that Sargeras operates directly on worlds, through the use of an Avatar. These are extensions of his will, huge and made from metal.

The book clearly states that the Titans never set foot on Azeroth because they were too big. They rely on Keepers, tools and armies of Titan-forged creations.

Also people are wrong that the Titans met Sargeras on a planet. They never set foot on a planet in the book.

Page 50: "Girded for war, the combined might of the Pantheon confronted Sargeras and his unholy Legion near a world named Nihilam."

They never set foot on it.

[shoc]

Exactly this. The book states the Titans are the size of planets. Sargeras literally destroys one.

It also in clearly confirms that Sargeras operates directly on worlds, through the use of an Avatar. These are extensions of his will, huge and made from metal.

The book clearly states that the Titans never set foot on Azeroth because they were too big. They rely on Keepers, tools and armies of Titan-forged creations.

Also people are wrong that the Titans met Sargeras on a planet. They never set foot on a planet in the book.

Page 50: "Girded for war, the combined might of the Pantheon confronted Sargeras and his unholy Legion near a world named Nihilam."

They never set foot on it.

Which then heavily suggests, almost confirms that Broxigar only made contact with the Avatar of Sargeras. Presumably the same Avatar that Aegwynn defeated and buried under the Temple of Elune aka Tomb of Sargeras.

Who, I personally think is going to be the final boss of this expansion.

[Qualia]

Yes but you are missing my point. Chronicle explicitly states that Titans were too big to come down to Azeroth personally which is why they created the Watchers.

Sargeras is a Titan first and foremost. We know Demons like KJ and Manny can change their size but there is no evidence to suggest that Sargeras can do that too.

In fact, if you make the logical assumption that Sargeras is still bound by Titan rules then it would make sense that Sargeras too had to create his equivalent of a Watcher to meddle with Azeroth. And that was the Avatar of Sargeras.

The Titans are big, yes. It's also correct that the Pantheon created the Keepeers and their titan-forged army because they were afraid that they would damage, or even kill the world-soul if they fight because of their colossal form. However, that does not necessarily mean that the Pantheon / Titans can't change their size. It might simply mean that they can't shrink down to a small enough size. For example, maybe they can shrink down to the size of a mountain, but can't shrink down any smaller. All in all, while there wasn't a statement that the Titans can change size, there wasn't any direct statement that they can't, either.

Then now we have these facts:
- Archimonde can change size. Tyr can change size. The dragons can change size (and shape as well). Even Lei Shen could do it. None of these races (Eredar, Keepers and Dragons) are known to have a natural size-changing ability, so it should come from magic. Why couldn't Sargeras use the same magic that significantly weaker beings can?
- The pictures in the book make the distinction clearly. When it comes to Sargeras' avatar (the one with Aegwynn), they called it Avatar of Sargeras, not Sargeras. The picture with Sargeras commanding his army was titled as "Sargeras and the Burning Legion", not "Avatar of Sargeras and the Burning Legion", and he doesn't seem to be planet-sized there. Also, there seem to be a difference in color between Sargeras and his avatar in these picture, assume that was intentional by the artist. Sargeras has a green-ish fel hue, while his avatar is more similar to his old depiction of fire and shadow.
- Sargeras has been shown to be able to change shape - he appeared and communed with Velen, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde in the guise of a "radiant and elegant" being. Although, admittedly, this could be an illusion rather than shape-shifting.
- However, even if we are to ignore the meeting between Sargeras and the Eredar triumvirate, there is still the WoE portal:

<...>
Ultimately, Illidan secured the Dragon Soul and delivered the artifact to the waiting Highborne. They immediately used the weapon for the next phase of their plans. The Dragon Soul would prove vital to creating a massive gateway within the heart of the Well of Eternity.
A gateway through which Sargeras himself could enter the world of Azeroth.
<...>
Although Malfurion remained deeply suspicious of his brother, a much greater threat consumed his attention. He discovered that the Well of Eternity had become a colossal portal - a direct gateway for Sargeras himself to enter Azeroth.
<...>
As Sargeras prepare to emerge from the portal, the Highborne's spellwork unraveled and an unstable vortex of arcane energies ignited within the Well of Eternity. The fount buckled upon itself. In that moment, Sargeras was ripped back to the Twisting Nether.

As you can see, the narrative part of the book clearly stated, twice even, that it was Sargeras himself who was going into the portal. Noted that it was the narrative part, so it wasn't some statement from a character (which might be biased in his / her opinion). Sargeras was already preparing to emerge from the portal when Malfurion succeeded in sabotaging it. Now, no matter how massive or colossal the portal might have been, don't you think it's a stretch to assume it could be big enough for a planet-sized Titan to cross?

So based on these, it's very likely that there is a size-changing magic. It's also possible that Sargeras was able to use it, or else some of the things mentioned above would have made no sense. Although, there is probably a limitation to that magic - i.e: they can't shrink down to the size of a Titan Keeper, for example, going by the Pantheon's worry. However, anything bigger than a keeper could still be fair game.

[Deleted]

I thought about something. What if the picture of Sargeras cleaving the world soul is actually an avatar or something similair? What if the 2nd picture, of Sargeras and the legion, is his actual size, but that he can use some spell or create an avatar of some form that makes him that huge?
That would explain both the Broxigar injury, the summoning to Azeroth and the destruction of the world soul.

[Nanaboostme]

Sargeras is so huge that I can't even fit the image on my screen

[Friendlyimmolation]

I thought about something. What if the picture of Sargeras cleaving the world soul is actually an avatar or something similair? What if the 2nd picture, of Sargeras and the legion, is his actual size, but that he can use some spell or create an avatar of some form that makes him that huge?
That would explain both the Broxigar injury, the summoning to Azeroth and the destruction of the world soul.

Sargeras is as big as the other titans, so him being tiny makes no sense.

[Golden Yak]

I thought about something. What if the picture of Sargeras cleaving the world soul is actually an avatar or something similair? What if the 2nd picture, of Sargeras and the legion, is his actual size, but that he can use some spell or create an avatar of some form that makes him that huge?
That would explain both the Broxigar injury, the summoning to Azeroth and the destruction of the world soul.

Chronicle seems to imply the opposite - Sargeras is huge like all Titans, and uses smaller avatars to act on a smaller scale. The Sargeras that fought Aegwynn on Azeroth and was buried in the Tomb of Sargeras was an avatar. Presumably, another avatar commanded the Legion in that Chronicle image. Perhaps Brox damaged an avatar, or that axe was just really special.

[Stilllogicz]

Chronicle seems to imply the opposite - Sargeras is huge like all Titans, and uses smaller avatars to act on a smaller scale. The Sargeras that fought Aegwynn on Azeroth and was buried in the Tomb of Sargeras was an avatar. Presumably, another avatar commanded the Legion in that Chronicle image. Perhaps Brox damaged an avatar, or that axe was just really special.

Guess we got a good question for the next lore Q&A. I personally believe believe it was an avatar.

[shoc]

Chronicle seems to imply the opposite - Sargeras is huge like all Titans, and uses smaller avatars to act on a smaller scale. The Sargeras that fought Aegwynn on Azeroth and was buried in the Tomb of Sargeras was an avatar. Presumably, another avatar commanded the Legion in that Chronicle image. Perhaps Brox damaged an avatar, or that axe was just really special.

It could also be assumed that Sargeras appeared to the Draenei as a much more "beautiful" looking Avatar, but an Avatar nonetheless. Of course Velen didn't see past his bullshit.

[Golden Yak]

It could also be assumed that Sargeras appeared to the Draenei as a much more "beautiful" looking Avatar, but an Avatar nonetheless. Of course Velen didn't see past his bullshit.

Yeah, it says he appeared as a 'radiant and elegant' being. Either a custom avatar or some kind of illusion. Velen did sense something was fishy about the situation, but it wasn't until he used the naaru crystals that he saw exactly what.

[3DTyrant]

Titans (therefore, subsequently Sargeras too) are able to change their size. Atleast, if I'm remembering correctly.

[kendro1200]

except chronicles pretty flat out states that he cleaved a planet with his sword. Its "not just art"

And Blizzard has never once exaggerated anything for the 'wow' factor, ever. /sarcasm

Sargeras can change his size, shape changing magic is nothing new.

The Titans didn't want to go onto Azeroth when combating the Old Gods because they knew it was a delicate situation that they were going into blind. They have the power to destroy worlds, and they are trying to save one.

I can use a laser to burn someone's eyes out easily. I can also use a laser to make tiny changes to the shape of the eye in order to enable people to see without glasses or contact lenses. One requires a lot more effort and care than the other, but that isn't to say that a laser is incapable of doing so.

[Friendlyimmolation]

And Blizzard has never once exaggerated anything for the 'wow' factor, ever. /sarcasm

Sargeras can change his size, shape changing magic is nothing new.

The Titans didn't want to go onto Azeroth when combating the Old Gods because they knew it was a delicate situation that they were going into blind. They have the power to destroy worlds, and they are trying to save one.

I can use a laser to burn someone's eyes out easily. I can also use a laser to make tiny changes to the shape of the eye in order to enable people to see without glasses or contact lenses. One requires a lot more effort and care than the other, but that isn't to say that a laser is incapable of doing so.

No, the titans didn't go onto Azeroth because they would have destroyed the planet walking on it. That is the entire reason they created the keepers.