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  1. #1

    Why Is demon's blade still around?

    All I hear about this talent is bad things. Not too many people have said this is worth taking, or even that fun. Why then has it not been changed even slighty or removed from the talent tree all together? I know it's still alpha things will change but, there have been a decent amount of builds released and this talent has not been altered/changed through out any of their releases despite people saying it isn't good.

    Am I hearing wrong about this talent? Is it good or worth taking? Personally I can't see taking it myself but then again I'd have to try it to decide. What do you folks think?

  2. #2
    First off: Have you gave feedback to Blizzard about it? What you don't like about it, what you do like about it, what you think could change about it or even something completely in place of it? Sounds silly but that's what alpha is about and so many people forget that but are happy to complain on forums instead (not saying you did, just making sure)

    Personally I find it boring. Last time I tried it, it didn't give anywhere near enough resources to even use Eye Beam and Blade Dance on CD. Probably changed since then though, I hope.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2016-03-19 at 04:04 AM.

  3. #3
    If you have enough crit and pick all the fury generation to supplement losing your generator you could make it work. I don't think i have seen a single person say they enjoy the talent. Having to spend all your other talents to support a single one doesn't really make sense. It just seems like a lack luster talent that is added for people who don't want to have a spammy class. Yet the whole idea of Demon Hunter is spamming so it does not really make any sense. I hope it does change but I sort of lost hope with how this class will turn out and will just see how they take it going forward.

  4. #4
    Because it's not nearly as bad as people have made it out to be, and servers a purpose within the spec.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkraven View Post
    If you have enough crit and pick all the fury generation to supplement losing your generator you could make it work. I don't think i have seen a single person say they enjoy the talent. Having to spend all your other talents to support a single one doesn't really make sense. It just seems like a lack luster talent that is added for people who don't want to have a spammy class. Yet the whole idea of Demon Hunter is spamming so it does not really make any sense. I hope it does change but I sort of lost hope with how this class will turn out and will just see how they take it going forward.
    99% of this is super weird and not really true.

    Every DH build has required talents. Complaining that demons blades does is like yelling that water is wet while swimming the english channel.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    First off: Have you gave feedback to Blizzard about it? What you don't like about it, what you do like about it, what you think could change about it or even something completely in place of it? Sounds silly but that's what alpha is about and so many people forget that but are happy to complain on forums instead (not saying you did, just making sure)

    Personally I find it boring. Last time I tried it, it didn't give anywhere near enough resources to even use Eye Beam and Blade Dance on CD. Probably changed since then though, I hope.
    A large majority of us can't post on alpha forums, and they pretty much completely ignore every other way we have of giving them feedback. Apparently not being in the alpha means our opinion isn't valid as feedback when it very much should be.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Because it's not nearly as bad as people have made it out to be, and servers a purpose within the spec.

    - - - Updated - - -



    99% of this is super weird and not really true.

    Every DH build has required talents. Complaining that demons blades does is like yelling that water is wet while swimming the english channel.
    It's not that im saying there should be no synergy between talents but I just don't think if you pick one talent you should be obligated to have to take every other talent to support it. Could you get away with picking Demon Blades by itself and ignoring all the supporting talents? Sure. However, the way that plays is like a slower version of the WoD arms warrior.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkraven View Post
    It's not that im saying there should be no synergy between talents but I just don't think if you pick one talent you should be obligated to have to take every other talent to support it. Could you get away with picking Demon Blades by itself and ignoring all the supporting talents? Sure. However, the way that plays is like a slower version of the WoD arms warrior.
    Can you pick demonic and ignore all the supporting talents?

    momentum?

    That's how Demon Hunter builds work. Every single one of them.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Can you pick demonic and ignore all the supporting talents?

    momentum?

    That's how Demon Hunter builds work. Every single one of them.
    I don't know why you're being so confrontational. However yes I do think you can ignore some talents if you were to go demonic or momentum. Would it result in less dps? Probably but there still would not be significant gaps in your rotation if you were to compare it to skipping a talent going demon blades. It's just my opinion in how i feel talents should work.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltas View Post
    A large majority of us can't post on alpha forums, and they pretty much completely ignore every other way we have of giving them feedback. Apparently not being in the alpha means our opinion isn't valid as feedback when it very much should be.
    kinda sucks that many of us cannot give feedback since we are not in alpha, still it's early so hopefully there's still alot of changes coming
    Last edited by demonik; 2016-03-19 at 04:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkraven View Post
    I don't know why you're being so confrontational. However yes I do think you can ignore some talents if you were to go demonic or momentum. Would it result in less dps? Probably but there still would not be significant gaps in your rotation if you were to compare it to skipping a talent going demon blades. It's just my opinion in how i feel talents should work.
    I'm not being confrontational - I'm being realistic.

    ALL demon hunter builds have critical talents. You cannot build them otherwise.

    Demonic REQUIRES Demonic Appetite, Prepared, Felblade, Demonic, and Unleashed Power.
    Momentum REQUIRES Fel Mastery, Fel Eruption, Bloodlet, Momentum, and Master of the Glaive.
    Demon Blades REQUIRES Demonic Appetite, Prepared, Felblade, Nemesis, and Demon Blades.


    But for some reason you're complaining that Demon Blades is requiring and poo-poo'ing that the other two do as well. There is ABSOLUTELY a huge gap in your momentum gameplay if you don't take Fel Eruption and MoTG - you run out of ranged abilities. Similarly, should you take Demonic Appetite you don't have enough fury to sustain as you're not throwing all your fury into Chaos Strikes, and Blind Fury will mess up your rotation as well.


    This isn't me "feeling" how it works, this is me testing rotations and knowing how it works.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    I'm not being confrontational - I'm being realistic.

    ALL demon hunter builds have critical talents. You cannot build them otherwise.

    Demonic REQUIRES Demonic Appetite, Prepared, Felblade, Demonic, and Unleashed Power.
    Momentum REQUIRES Fel Mastery, Fel Eruption, Bloodlet, Momentum, and Master of the Glaive.
    Demon Blades REQUIRES Demonic Appetite, Prepared, Felblade, Nemesis, and Demon Blades.


    But for some reason you're complaining that Demon Blades is requiring and poo-poo'ing that the other two do as well. There is ABSOLUTELY a huge gap in your momentum gameplay if you don't take Fel Eruption and MoTG - you run out of ranged abilities. Similarly, should you take Demonic Appetite you don't have enough fury to sustain as you're not throwing all your fury into Chaos Strikes, and Blind Fury will mess up your rotation as well.


    This isn't me "feeling" how it works, this is me testing rotations and knowing how it works.
    Well I guess the way I have been playing the class has been wrong since you have figured it out then. There should be no variability in talents other than what you have described here.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodkraven View Post
    Well I guess the way I have been playing the class has been wrong since you have figured it out then. There should be no variability in talents other than what you have described here.
    There's really not if you want to talk optimal builds.

    You can do whatever you want. If you want to be effective, you have to use certain talents. If you want to play Demonic with no Unleashed Power.. go for it, but it's going to suck, and your damage is going to be ass. If you want to do Momentum without Fel Mastery, go for it. You're gonna have a shit time with no fury, but you could do it.

  13. #13
    Wasn't there alot of theorycrafting about how once you have enough haste and crit or something its a viable talent? Cant remember but its been shown to serve a purpose. You dont like it dont take it....Now if they want to remove it to give us rain from above as a pve talent I would be all for that!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo318 View Post
    Wasn't there alot of theorycrafting about how once you have enough haste and crit or something its a viable talent? Cant remember but its been shown to serve a purpose. You dont like it dont take it....Now if they want to remove it to give us rain from above as a pve talent I would be all for that!
    Rain from above does really sound like a cool talent I wish it was a pve talent instead

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo318 View Post
    Wasn't there alot of theorycrafting about how once you have enough haste and crit or something its a viable talent? Cant remember but its been shown to serve a purpose. You dont like it dont take it....Now if they want to remove it to give us rain from above as a pve talent I would be all for that!
    It scales the best with haste and crit - the highest end build will be, as of current specs, demon blades because of how you'll be able to chain chaos strikes while also generating an insane amount of fury form auto-attacks. Haste and crit also scale much faster than mastery, making them better stats anyway.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by demonik View Post
    All I hear about this talent is bad things. Not too many people have said this is worth taking, or even that fun. Why then has it not been changed even slighty or removed from the talent tree all together? I know it's still alpha things will change but, there have been a decent amount of builds released and this talent has not been altered/changed through out any of their releases despite people saying it isn't good.

    Am I hearing wrong about this talent? Is it good or worth taking? Personally I can't see taking it myself but then again I'd have to try it to decide. What do you folks think?
    The purpose of Demon Blades is to alter the playstyle of the DPS Demon Hunter.

    Right now, the rotation is spam Demon's bite to generate Fury and spend it on Chaos Strike, using CD spells as well. Demon's Bite removes the wrist strain on Demon's Bite, making it just resource spenders (opposed to resource generate and spend). I personally like the talent because I hate mindlessly spamming a filler button - ie thrash, devestate, etc because it isnt interesting because its mandatory.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    ALL demon hunter builds have critical talents. You cannot build them otherwise.

    Demonic REQUIRES Demonic Appetite, Prepared, Felblade, Demonic, and Unleashed Power.
    Momentum REQUIRES Fel Mastery, Fel Eruption, Bloodlet, Momentum, and Master of the Glaive.
    Demon Blades REQUIRES Demonic Appetite, Prepared, Felblade, Nemesis, and Demon Blades.
    I don't think you're correct nor being objective here regarding how much talent interaction there is.

    Demonic does not require Prepared or Felblade in any sense. They both have benefits, but the difference between taking one or the other is negligable at best, there is no inherent synergy between them if you don't take them that you'll be missing out on. In fact, it's arguable (especially after the last build) that First Blood is superior to Felblade simply because going into Meta more often allows for more Death Sweeps, which have a bigger gap now especially after the Annihilation nerf.

    Same vein for Momentum, in fact, I think you've got the build flat wrong. Fel Mastery, Felblade (not Bloodlet nor MotG) and Prepared are the 4 that sync. You shouldn't be optimising tools at ranged, you should be optimising ways of staying within melee range, not taking Felblade is massively counter-productive to that end.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo318 View Post
    you dont like it dont take it....
    Is that really the mentality we want to have? especially this early on into the class creation? Has that done any good for other classes? Not to say that this specific talent needs to be changed or,"omg the class will suk if this talent doesn't get changed" but we as a community should be more constructive and give feedback for changes/alterations not just for this talent or class but for all aspects of the game.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    I don't think you're correct nor being objective here regarding how much talent interaction there is.

    Demonic does not require Prepared or Felblade in any sense. They both have benefits, but the difference between taking one or the other is negligable at best, there is no inherent synergy between them if you don't take them that you'll be missing out on. In fact, it's arguable (especially after the last build) that First Blood is superior to Felblade simply because going into Meta more often allows for more Death Sweeps, which have a bigger gap now especially after the Annihilation nerf.

    Same vein for Momentum, in fact, I think you've got the build flat wrong. Fel Mastery, Felblade (not Bloodlet nor MotG) and Prepared are the 4 that sync. You shouldn't be optimising tools at ranged, you should be optimising ways of staying within melee range, not taking Felblade is massively counter-productive to that end.
    Prepared is required for Fury Gen, plain and simple. Chaos Cleave and Fel Eruption simply cannot compare - the VR is necessary when you use Eye Beam, as otherwise you waste your time in Meta after Eye Beam with no fury. That's *why* it's required; you cannot afford the 20 energy of Fel Eruption in many cases (and the fury is "wasted" compared to saving for CS for DA procs to get more EB / CN) and the cleave of CS is not worth it when you could use prepared to get more Annihilations.

    Felblade is in the same boat - you need that fury. Now, with the fury nerf you could argue that first blood might be good.. but first blood does not proc DA, does not allow you to chain itself, and costs more fury to boot. Comes down to a tuning issue, which we're not at right now.


    For Momentum, you can maximize your at-range time. Felblade is not chosen because you're going to have to fill ranged holes. You can cancel VR, sure. But then you're going to need to FR again anyway, and you're trying to balance around Felblade being up.. or you could not cancel VR, use EB, Fel rush in, use VR uncancelled, use FE / TG, and repeat. You actually waste more Momentum Buffs double-tapping fel rush because you don't have anything up at ranged from my work with Momentum. FE also hits like a goddamn truck, particularly with a 20% buff on it. MoTG also works out kinks in the rotation where, again, you'd have nothing left but to waste half your buff running in or out.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by demonik View Post
    kinda sucks that many of us cannot give feedback since we are not in alpha, still it's early so hopefully there's still alot of changes coming
    no offense but if you haven't actually played with it you can say you don't like the idea but you can't really give feedback

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