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  1. #61
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    The Light has a sentient will
    all light Come from the Naru
    The Light is a cosmic force, much like the Void. Naaru are a product of the Light, much like Titans are (to a lesser extent). As such, the Light has no will, is just power that can be called upon, in the Light's case through faith and willpower. That's why the Light answered the call of the deranged Scarlet Crusade or the even more demented Vindicators of the Twilight's Hammer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  2. #62
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinsla View Post
    Arthas always struck me as chaotic evil, maybe lawful evil but Bolvar seems neutral, perhaps even chaotic neutral.

    Bolvar isn't at all bothered with world domination or the likes as Arthas is.

    They're very different personality wise, basically. So what gives? Wasn't Arthas also "good" and "all that was holding back the scourge"?
    One is vengeance (though, artifacts are quite the blame as well), the other is justice?
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    isn't Tyr the one who taught Paladin about the Light
    Naaru taught the Draenei directly about how to wield the Light. Naaru taught the humans about the Light through visions. Humans mistook the naaru for angelic beings.

    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    and the priests just used the light by praying for whoever god ?!
    Wielding the Light is only a matter of willpower and one's faith in their own ability to do so. If someone believes some god will grant them power, the Light will manifest because they believe it will.

    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    - and even if the light is cosmic force there was many cases when the light couldn't answer the Call
    like in Rise of the Horde Novel
    The Broken lost the Light because of the Red Mist. It was a chemical weapon designed to block the Draenei from using the Light. When the Light failed them during the battle of Shattrath, they began losing faith in it, further blocking their ability to call it, making them lost more faith. It's a positive feedback loop.

    The HElves lost faith in the Light because they believed it abandoned them and let the Scourge destroy their kingdom.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukk View Post
    In the Book, Arthas (a Death knight) was getting manipulated by Ner'zhul (The Lich King). They shared the same body after he put on the helm and armor and what not. Eventually Arthas' spirit got rid of Ner'zhuls and he became the one and only Lich King. So while Arthas started off good, he got manipulated and basically started enjoying being so powerful and decided that he wanted to become the Lich King. Bolvar still only wants to do good by keeping the undead in check, but give him time, we might have him as a raid boss in a few expansions.
    Arthas and Nher'Zul fused into one being. The Lich King was neither Arthas nor Nher'Zul but a new entity comprised of both at the same time, like Garnet (if you watch Steven Universe).

  5. #65
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windowmaker View Post
    Arthas and Nher'Zul fused into one being. The Lich King was neither Arthas nor Nher'Zul but a new entity comprised of both at the same time, like Garnet (if you watch Steven Universe).
    That's the old lore. Arthas destroyed Ner'zhul's soul and became the Lich King by himself.

  6. #66
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    That's the old lore. Arthas destroyed Ner'zhul's soul and became the Lich King by himself.
    I think that's still partially true, Arthas and Ner'zhul indeed fused and their merge created the new Lich King. Arthas's will just overwhelmed Ner'zhul's when it came to control this new being.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellishreaper View Post
    wrong, arthas lost his soul to frostmourne after taking up the blade, basically he never had any moral compass because of it

    - - - Updated - - -



    this is so incorrect i dont think you've ever even played warcraft 3, everything he did was for his people but he didnt know the price he'd have to pay for using frostmourne and it stole his soul
    Uhm, have you played war3 yourself? starting in mission 1 or 2 uther goes on a big speech about how arthas focusses way to much on vengeance to be a good fit for the silver hand, the true non fallen paladins you speak off. This is a big theme for the campaign all the way through until he picks up frostmourne, arguably culminating in the culling of stratholme, where uther and jaina flat out abandon him because they think he is crossing a line a good person wouldn't cross without more proof/research. And didn't know the cost of picking up the sword? please watch the cutscene again, he willingly paid any price knowing it was going to be very high.

    Sure the lich king was manipulating him bigtime before he lost his soul, but it's pretty obvious there are a lot of lore characters able to resist such manipulation, as opposed to arthas, who was chosen as the lich kings target in the first place because flaws in his character made him easy to manipulate. any high ranking alliance member would have achieved the same result story wise so arthas wasn't chosen particularly for that.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    I think that's still partially true, Arthas and Ner'zhul indeed fused and their merge created the new Lich King. Arthas's will just overwhelmed Ner'zhul's when it came to control this new being.

    Basically yeah "The Lich King" still had all the memories and such of Ner'zhul, but the personality was 100% Arthas.

  9. #69
    The Lightbringer steelballfc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mgann-Morzz View Post
    Basically yeah "The Lich King" still had all the memories and such of Ner'zhul, but the personality was 100% Arthas.
    -Salute-
    Agreed

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellishreaper View Post
    this is so incorrect i dont think you've ever even played warcraft 3, everything he did was for his people but he didnt know the price he'd have to pay for using frostmourne and it stole his soul
    Warcraft 3 and every single piece of extended media we have on Arthas showed he was a selfish, privileged little shit who, while loving his people, was capable of major douchebaggery and whined all the time. Turning around and murdering mercenaries he paid for to scapegoat them as to why his forces needed to stay in Northrend was nothing but a selfish vendetta that ended up costing the lives of nearly every single person he took with him.

    This only got worse as a Death Knight. And as the Lich King.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2016-03-19 at 01:02 PM.

  11. #71
    The Lightbringer steelballfc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Warcraft 3 and every single piece of extended media we have on Arthas showed he was a selfish, privileged little shit who, while loving his people, was capable of major douchebaggery and whined all the time. Turning around and murdering mercenaries he paid for to scapegoat them as to why his forces needed to stay in Northrend was nothing but a selfish vendetta that ended up costing the lives of nearly every single person he took with him.
    I hate when I agree with you

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by steelballfc View Post
    I hate when I agree with you
    You'll be with me yet, young padawan.

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer steelballfc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    You'll be with me yet, young padawan.
    "Falling on my Knees"
    nooooooooooooooo

  14. #74
    Scarab Lord 3DTyrant's Avatar
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    You're asking why two different people aren't the same. Arthas lost his soul to Frostmourne and was buddy buddy with the spirit of Ner'Zhul after taking up the Helm because fuck the world, Bolvar on the other hand was just burnt to a crispy dragon flame grilled kebab and chose to don the Helm of Damnation for "scourge suppression" reasons.
    Shath'mag vwyq shu et'agthu, Shath'mag sshk ye! Krz'ek fhn'z agash zz maqdahl or'kaaxth'ma amqa!
    The Black Empire once ruled this pitiful world, and it will do so again! Your pitiful kind will know only despair and sorrow for a hundred thousand millennia to come!
    Avatar drawn by Sir Meo

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Have you read the books which show his inner thoughts? Arthas was deep down a bastard.
    He wasn't a bad guy, he was just special. Like Deadpool for example minus the ADHD.

  16. #76
    Epic! Enthralled's Avatar
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    I just have to laugh at the whole "Arthas wasn't bad" thing. I can't stand the bratty little creep from the very start of the human campaign in W3: RoC. That character would have gone on to have been a terrible king.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Warcraft 3 and every single piece of extended media we have on Arthas showed he was a selfish, privileged little shit who, while loving his people, was capable of major douchebaggery and whined all the time. Turning around and murdering mercenaries he paid for to scapegoat them as to why his forces needed to stay in Northrend was nothing but a selfish vendetta that ended up costing the lives of nearly every single person he took with him.

    This only got worse as a Death Knight. And as the Lich King.
    He had the balls to do the Culling of Stratholme and thus limiting the Scourge a great deal at that particular time. Murdering mercenaries was a douchebag move as was burning the ships, but all was done for the greater good in his mind, as he had huge fucking balls. Given this was not a trap and just a standard war he would have been decorated (living or post-mortem) for his courage.

  18. #78
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Warcraft 3 and every single piece of extended media we have on Arthas showed he was a selfish, privileged little shit who, while loving his people, was capable of major douchebaggery and whined all the time. Turning around and murdering mercenaries he paid for to scapegoat them as to why his forces needed to stay in Northrend was nothing but a selfish vendetta that ended up costing the lives of nearly every single person he took with him.

    This only got worse as a Death Knight. And as the Lich King.
    Let's not forget that Arthas' descent to darkness was hinted from the very start of the Human campaign, when Uther warned that paladins could not turn to vengeance, as doing so would make them monstrous and bloodthirsty as the enemy. That's the exact path Arthas followed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibalus View Post
    He had the balls to do the Culling of Stratholme and thus limiting the Scourge a great deal at that particular time.
    If it was someone else I would have said "yes". But Arthas faced no struggle at all in his decision. The reason why such decision came so easy to him wasn't due to his "balls" but his ruthlessness, a trait Ner'zhul liked and extensively proved to possess in many other instances.

    Murdering mercenaries was a douchebag move as was burning the ships, but all was done for the greater good in his mind
    Arthas: Damn the men! Nothing shall prevent me from having my revenge, old friend. Not even you.

    http://wow.gamepedia.com/Frostmourne_%28Warcraft_III%29

    This bullshit of the "greater good" is nothing but a convenient and misplaced excuse to justify Arthas' revolting behavior, behavior which proved he was nothing short but a dickhead.

    Given this was not a trap and just a standard war he would have been decorated (living or post-mortem) for his courage.
    This is like saying "if that car wasn't in my way I would have never crashed" even though you were drunk to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Sorry for the Legion spoilers, but Bolvar isn't quite so... benevolent as you're working on the DK artifact stuff. There's a lot of 'YOU SHALL BE MY INSTRUMENT OF DESTRUCTION' type comments that all sound very, very much like a proper Lich King.
    God thats lame as hell, was hoping he would stay good.

    Terenas must have been cut off when he was about to say "there must always be a lich king expansion"

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibalus View Post
    He had the balls to do the Culling of Stratholme and thus limiting the Scourge a great deal at that particular time. Murdering mercenaries was a douchebag move as was burning the ships, but all was done for the greater good in his mind, as he had huge fucking balls. Given this was not a trap and just a standard war he would have been decorated (living or post-mortem) for his courage.
    "Huge fucking balls." All he did was murder a bunch of loyal soldiers for his own vendetta by forcing them to stay in Northrend. And, no, he would not have been decorated for his courage. He deliberately disobeyed orders of his superior (His Father), which cost the lives of a bunch of Alliance forces.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Sorry for the Legion spoilers, but Bolvar isn't quite so... benevolent as you're working on the DK artifact stuff. There's a lot of 'YOU SHALL BE MY INSTRUMENT OF DESTRUCTION' type comments that all sound very, very much like a proper Lich King.
    Versus the Legion, more specifically the Dreadlords, who enslaved the Scourge once before. That's a very key part of that entire scene you left out which changes the context of his comment significantly.

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