1. #301
    Since the last build's changes to Blood Plague, I'm curious how spells like (Umbilicus Eternus - When Vampiric Blood expires, gain an absorb effect equal to 5 times the damage you dealt with Blood Plague during the duration) will work condering the damage component from Blood Plauge was removed and changed to (A shadowy disease that drains 0 health from the target over 24 sec. Unlimited range. Instant.)

  2. #302
    Deleted
    Blood Plague not doing damage is just a bug though.

  3. #303
    I feel like I'm in the minority.

    I'm not in alpha yet, so I don't know firsthand how blood feels, but I can see what they are going for, and I can see it working and even being enjoyable.

    The only thing I'm worried about is tanking CMs.

    I do, though, understand other's concerns, but to say Blizzard is out of touch and ignoring legitimate issues is a little odd. How many of you actually know how blood feels to play right now? Different doesn't necessarily mean bad.

  4. #304
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aezral View Post
    I do, though, understand other's concerns, but to say Blizzard is out of touch and ignoring legitimate issues is a little odd. How many of you actually know how blood feels to play right now? Different doesn't necessarily mean bad.
    Yes, different doesn't mean bad. I'm not playing Blood on live, so I can't compare the playstyles, but changes like Unending Thirst are weird. The previous (Blood Shield expires => Heal) did make sense, seeing how quickly Blood Shield gets destroyed (the heal was too high imo, but that's just numbers). Now it's 25% leech for the few seconds Blood Shield is actually up. Not even comparing to the other tanks, this is one of the "big" three traits you unlock, it's just underwhelming.

    Also: Consumption now states it's Active Mitigation, but nothing happens when you press it (ie no "Active Mitigation" buff) - did they say anything about that?

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitari View Post
    Yes, different doesn't mean bad. I'm not playing Blood on live, so I can't compare the playstyles, but changes like Unending Thirst are weird. The previous (Blood Shield expires => Heal) did make sense, seeing how quickly Blood Shield gets destroyed (the heal was too high imo, but that's just numbers). Now it's 25% leech for the few seconds Blood Shield is actually up. Not even comparing to the other tanks, this is one of the "big" three traits you unlock, it's just underwhelming.

    Also: Consumption now states it's Active Mitigation, but nothing happens when you press it (ie no "Active Mitigation" buff) - did they say anything about that?
    i can be wrong, but before this build - consumption was Death strike on steroids - wich is work with blood shield, that's why it was Active mitigation. The result can be 1 of 2 things:
    a) its a bug and consumtion not give blood shield (no alpha - so i don't know if it is)
    b) they choose to remove AM from artifact ability - as others tanks have (well - wowhead not list their as AM).

    But still - with our AM we can end in same thing as MoP bosses where AM prevent death (YES RA-DEN - IT'S YOU WHO MADE ME FEEL LIKE USELESS SHIT!!!) or some debuff things... hm... maybe make blood shield put absorb on us and work as warrior ignore pain, but... % of damage absorbes will scale with mastery? or something other
    example: DS heal for 100k, put shield for 50k. then 2 hits for 30k. you absorb up to 50% damage from attack = 15k from every attack. 50k-15k-15k=20k left? just an idea...

  6. #306
    Herald of the Titans Murderdoll's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,750
    Quote Originally Posted by Aezral View Post
    I feel like I'm in the minority.

    I'm not in alpha yet, so I don't know firsthand how blood feels, but I can see what they are going for, and I can see it working and even being enjoyable.

    The only thing I'm worried about is tanking CMs.

    I do, though, understand other's concerns, but to say Blizzard is out of touch and ignoring legitimate issues is a little odd. How many of you actually know how blood feels to play right now? Different doesn't necessarily mean bad.
    No, different doesnt mean bad and on paper a lot of the changes can make sense. But when you play Blood in a dungeon, it just feels horrible.

    Blood is very one dimensional at the moment. The rotation is extremely basic and theres no challenge, the fix was to hamfist Marrowrend into our rotation and essentially make sure Blood Strike was unrewarding. Soulgorge adds complexity into the rotation in the sense that stepping on a 10 nails makes it complex to walk. Its a talent that is not fun to use, nor does it feel like it flows. On anything that requires you to use Blood Boil, you wont be taking it (which, is like everything). So, no, different is not bad. But a very basic rotation is boring.

    I explained this to a guild mate the other night. I was forced onto Blood from a Enh Shaman due to what our guild needed. I took solace in the fact that Blood had BoS. When I play I have two carrots on the stick. Raid Progression and personal progression. Blood gave me a sense of that. I can push myself every week through higher damage and being better with BoS. Right now, Blood offers no carrot on the stick for players. The skill ceiling is incredibly low so the room for personal improvement is very low. The "adding complexity to the rotation" talents do not provide that in a meaningful way, its just obnoxious.

    So without any room for personal improvement, whats making me want to play this spec every week for 2 years?

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyvi View Post

    At lvl 100 it's worth 9.7% of our max health which is pretty good (less if you include the lost RP from Blood Strike though).
    At lvl 110 it's worth 6.8% of our max health, 4.2% if you factor in the -10 RP lost from not using Blood Strikes instead.
    consumption doesn't cost runes so your not missing out on blood strikes?

    edit: also i think someone was concerned about what we bring to challenge modes. For trash tremble before me will be pretty great as a really strong AOE CC.
    Last edited by mmimzie; 2016-03-19 at 08:01 PM.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by mmimzie View Post
    edit: also i think someone was concerned about what we bring to challenge modes. For trash tremble before me will be pretty great as a really strong AOE CC.
    I think it will be useful as well, especially now with DnD only triggering a 15 seconds CD. I'm not sure about how quickly it breaks though, especially when the whole party is damaging the feared mobs. Maybe someone on alpha could confirm.

  9. #309
    Tremble Before Me was broken as fuck in earlier builds, sorta like Breath of Fire disorient on MoP alpha. What i mean is, it didn't break on any damage, but it has been fixed.

    I just ran part of a dungeon (people left halfway through) and you can see in these logs, image below, that it just breaks on the next attack now. So, it's not very useful. I guess you can randomly interrupt mob casts and melee swings, but then they'll just go right ahead and use them again.


  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampere View Post
    Tremble Before Me was broken as fuck in earlier builds, sorta like Breath of Fire disorient on MoP alpha. What i mean is, it didn't break on any damage, but it has been fixed.
    Thanks for the confirmation and logs. Guess it works like any other fear.

  11. #311
    Deleted
    Blood is still atm terribly OP in alpha, making it very uninteresting and boring, but at least its quite clear something WILL change (some already did).

    Why use cooldowns if you are nearly invencible in trash AOE since Tremble Before me is (was) grossly OP and CC everything?
    Why pay attention to bone shield charges if they are grossly overtuned and never drop?


    Just these two things were breaking blood tanking in dungeons making it even less interesting as we would expect by now.

    But what i find realy distasteful and retarded is that everyone knew deep down that "tremble before me" would surely get nerfed because it was grossly OP, but still everyone was making videos with that talent selected and they QQIng it was too easy and boring. Ofc if you play with an ability that is clearly broken in alpha stage fights you are just losing precious time testing for nothing and looking like a baby complaining for nothing.

    Even a famous youtuber was nagging about how easy it was and so OP that talent was on AOE packs, but still he never took it down. How pointless was that video! displaying a class spec with a clearly broken ability says nothing about the spec.

  12. #312
    Deleted
    Tremble before me, while fluffy and dare i say "fun" will get nerfed/removed, it was before.

  13. #313
    Hold onto you butts... the next build is coming. Last build had sparse blood changes, so hoping this is it!

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeoshades View Post
    Hold onto you butts... the next build is coming. Last build had sparse blood changes, so hoping this is it!
    Likely there will be a lot of things changed across the board as the build went forward ~100 iterations so that's a decent build number jump

  15. #315
    As more youtubers I trust cover indepth the blood changes, I'm significantly less optimistic than before. While I am for a lot of the changes, I'm hoping they rework bone shield. I know we are the "reactive" tank, and we should focus less on prevention, but the old functioning of bone shield doesn't fit well in the new blood design IMO. In a single target situation, as long as bone shield is up, we are reduced to a 2 button spec, B/HS and DS. DnD and BB give the illusion of activity, but activity =/=thoughtful gameplay in this scenario.


    If they changed bone shield to be a flat, X seconds buff to damage reduction and runic regeneration that isn't stack based, we accomplish a few things
    -The need to consider how long bone shield has left vs our rune count + time to regen
    -More thought provoking gameplay in a single target scenario
    -The need to consider runic power, as marrowrend gives less RP

    Aside from some QoL changes (return of strangulation, grasp down from a 3 min cd, etc.) I think this alone could make a significant enough difference to please a lot of naysayers.
    Last edited by Aezral; 2016-03-31 at 12:41 AM. Reason: phrasing

  16. #316
    Starting to get a sick feeling.... build notes does not look promising. Unholy got love tho.

  17. #317
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mmimzie View Post
    Another alternative would be give us another route for completixity. Soulgorge could be replaced with something that makes us work harder. Maybe a breath of syndragosa style thing, but have it eating into your b[o]ne charges.maybe bone storm eats charges of bone shield ever second.
    This. Please.

    Unfortunately, I don't have an alpha invite, so I hope someone here could be so kind to post this brilliant idea in the feedback thread...


    BoS is what makes Blood fun at the moment.
    Well, and being gcd capped with multistrike galore, but those day will be gone, I assume.
    Really hate the idea of DS being on Runic Power, but who doesn't?... it just feels... wrong.
    Couldn't care less for Boneshield mechanic at the moment... feels boring on live, will be boring with legion (at least as it is now). Btw, does it really count as AM? More like Passive Mitigation. Not that Kilrogg' or Mannoroth' were really challenging but this will be more than trivial. At least Rune Tap was fun.

    Also, why still that Death Coil artifact trait? Isn't 'Touch of the Grave' the undead passive, anyway?
    And what's going on with Unending Thirst? Srsly.

    I like the idea of Spectral Reflection... especially with the artifact trait and up to 14(20?) seconds of 1-shot immunity sounds niche but nice nevertheless.
    Totally agree with what other said concerning most of the other talents (underwhelming but Blood Dks are used to that, right? Using Defile instead of BoS felt almost like a 'real choice' ... sometimes At least we still have some choice with trinkets, I guess)

    If I think back to MoP, I really miss the old Bloodworms... I really hope they become viable again... maybe keep them as they are but at the ability to heal the group for a bit like back in the day? maybe? please.

    Oh and some Scent of Blood mechanic would fit BS very well and would make it feel useful... maybe just 10% more heal per hit but heck... it'd be something.

    Cheers
    Last edited by mmoc7338c2ddeb; 2016-03-31 at 09:39 AM.

  18. #318
    Deleted
    Have some copy and paste. Quite frankly, not impressed with how the last few builds have gone.
    ---

    The package of mobility, snares and mob control is stil a lot lower than what competing tanks have. Snares are especially problematic considering the setup they require and risk of getting hit that the snare strength should be twice what it currently is.
    Or bring back Chains of Ice/Chilblains because no one asked for auto-applying snares.

    Ossuary
    I am sorry to be so crass, but considering that it has still to be changed it seems that I have not been able to convey how bad this talent is: If you spec this talent and you have played Blood for longer than 5 minutes, then you are an idiot. It is that terrible and that's no hyperbole.

    It fails to make Marrowrend the AoE strike because it is both less damage than two Blood Strikes and harder to hit all mobs with because you only have one chance instead of two (this is a problem for streaming adds or adds that try to run past you) and its Bone Shield charge increase is unnecessary. And if that is not what it was supposed to do, then what is it for? Note that I do understand and have given thought to how someone might want to Marrowrend early in an AoE pull just to get charges up when you don't have time or the ability to prepare beforehand but that doesn't change my evaluation whatsoever since this will happen so rarely that even then taking another talent is always the better choice.
    There is no situation where speccing this is never sub-optimal since you are basically wasting the talent point on something you shouldn't be using anyway.

    Soulgorge
    Changes your rotation which is nice but it's limited to single target or two-target cleave at most in both how much you need extra Rune regen and how otherwise annoying it or Blood Plague is to keep up on more targets.
    Would be much less of an issue if it was not the only way to change the rotation, hence my repeated suggestions to give us a second option with a reworked Ossuary

    Rapid Decomp
    A bland talent that you will default to on true multi-target even though the defensive benefit doesn't scale with the amount of mobs you hit. I mentioned this before but 10 extra RP every 10 to 15 secs doesn't feel powerful as a player even if the numbers work out. It's missing something, maybe triggering Blood Plague every DnD tick at x% value so that you immediaetly notice that, yes, you did something to cause this.

    And one final attempt:
    Talents from the previous build: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742715227#8
    Notes on Death Strike and the various AP based heals: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742834716

    EDIT:
    Blood Plague is still not providing healing a second build in a row even though it has at least started to do damage. I guess the heal is gone for good then.

    Tremble before me's fear still breaks on (direct) damage. Increasing the ICD and/or adjusting the duration would frankly make more sense than having them break instantly in any form of group content.

    Wraith Walk's channel: It cannot be interrupted (tested via a duel anyway) so that's good but will it break once the animation gets changed to actually allow us to jump? That's pretty important here.
    Also, it breaks on: using Rune Tap, Blood Mirror, Summon Blood Beasts (which is weird since it doesn't require a target to cast) and Mark of Blood so that is pretty much all defensive CDs from talents.

    Consumption is still just a renamed Shockwave. It doesn't even require a target to use even though the tooltip says so and the cone effect is still there.

    And lastly, Dancing Rune Weapon still thinks it's Mists of Pandaria or earlier and deals damage reduced damage instead of copying it 1:1. Please bring back our one and only way to boost DPS above the median.
    Last edited by mmocd83042b656; 2016-03-31 at 10:32 AM.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyvi View Post
    Have some copy and paste. Quite frankly, not impressed with how the last few builds have gone.
    ---
    Thanks for being one of the few to actually post constructive feedback. It's a shame there aren't many others.

  20. #320
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayami View Post
    Thanks for being one of the few to actually post constructive feedback. It's a shame there aren't many others.
    Thanks.
    I am also disappointed that there are so few people that still care and want to discuss things even though I also understand their side of just giving up (it's a thought that has occured to me as well). So figured we could get more discussion on these boards but I guess that doesn't work either.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •