WoW too reliant on Addons?

[Lotus Victoria]

I wouldn't say so. I only use ElvUI. DBM breaks some of the immersion that is knowing the mechanics, but I won't lie, it can be really useful to know timers, especially during the harder fights.

[Jewsco]

What's the point in having a bunch of mechanics because of addons, if addons are just going to trivialize those mechanics?

They do? So everyone who raids has cleared mythic? Heck, have they even cleared heroic? The numbers say no. I wish you wouldn't compare how you do to everyone else. Speaking of that have you cleared mythic? If not how much has it trivialized it?

[Aurabolt]

Oh look! Another WoW blanket statement thread! Oh, joy.


I didn't really "get" DBM until I actually started using it 5 years ago. That said, while I agree the community mandating it is really stupid, I also agree there are certain fights were having it is very helpful--specifically the first time you're trying to down a boss. After the first time clear--especially if it took multiple attempts--I don't see the need for DBM for that specific encounter. It likely took several attempts so muscle memory alone should be sufficient.

Do I think there's an over-reliance on DBM? Not really. Should Blizz integrate DBM into the standard UI? Yes but I can see why they haven't yet: The fact of the matter is often times, DBM trivializes encounters. It removes much of the unpredictability that one would get if they did an enounter without DBM. Blizz knows it'a a playstyle choice like I do. Not different from folks who chose to only play WoW with their mouse and never touch their keyboards. Doesn't make sense to me but to each their own. LOL.

Until Blizz says otherwise, DBM is here to stay.

[Tharkkun]

Patch 3.3 was where they said "we tune fights with the expectation that most players have boss timers".
They totally tune fights around addons.

That's why fire on the ground that blows you up only gives 2 a second or less warning now instead of the old 4-5.

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What's the point in having a bunch of mechanics because of addons, if addons are just going to trivialize those mechanics?

If they trivialized mechanics why hasn't everyone cleared Mythic? Giving a heads up doesn't trivialize a mechanic. It gives you a heads up but you as a human must still make the correct decision.

I also prefer the VEM plugin. Audio warnings are far more intuitive than bars and timers.

[Riistov]

NOT so good comparation BUT, I agree with you on this one.. Game would be much more challenging in both terms boss encounters and class specific mechanics if you just couldn't trivialize such mechanic via simple weak aura, or a boss mode, then we would have 3months progression bosses like let's say sunwell muru , and the game itself would return to it's #hardcore#nerd origins.
Nowdays with all the fancy graphics and eye candies you could be able to follow boss mimics and respond to his next ability, not just blindly follow timers and addon graphics that popup when specific mechanic is about to occur, this also applies to class specific abilities or trinket procs..

There was a game that launched a couple years ago that was like this. It was called Wildstar and it's not doing so hot these days. As much as players like to say they want to return to the "hardcore" days, the performance of games that have tried it have showed otherwise.

[cFortyfive]

Iskar is a nice example.

Iskar is the opposite of a nice example for your case since the fight is only trivialized by it because you are incapable of using features that come with the client in the first place.

Wildstar

Sure because those were the only problems and not at all issues like that pixar weeaboo style for instance not really being that appealing.

[Riistov]

Yeah .. and it SUCKS.

Having to watch tiny buff/debuff symbols and timers, no proper range indicator as a healer ... U G H.

Yup, it's a real bummer. Every time I have tried to raid in other games I always feel like i'm going back in time.

[Chrno]

Yup, it's a real bummer. Every time I have tried to raid in other games I always feel like i'm going back in time.

going back in time isn't always a bad thing.

2 things on this subject:
- Yes the standard blizz UI is crap for raiding ..... raiding with it would indeed be horrible
- Addons do in fact alter the experience more then some people would like to admit.

I would prefer a game without addons. I enjoy FFXIV, GW2 for that. It's just less hassle wich i am all for!
Then again, the standard UI has to be good and adjustable to your liking.

ps: the standard 90's blizz UI is indeed going too far back in time XD

[Thereaperszone]

When a guild builds an addon for a world first to get the upper hand yes it is to reliant.

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going back in time isn't always a bad thing.

2 things on this subject:
- Yes the standard blizz UI is crap for raiding ..... raiding with it would indeed be horrible
- Addons do in fact alter the experience more then some people would like to admit.

I would prefer a game without addons. I enjoy FFXIV, GW2 for that. It's just less hassle wich i am all for!
Then again, the standard UI has to be good and adjustable to your liking.

ps: the standard 90's blizz UI is indeed going too far back in time XD

But default is so pretty

[wowaccounttom]

op, totally agree... i remember going into bwl with nothing but "dr damage" (played a warrior back then) and nothing else...

we didnt even use vent and we cleared everything up to the first wing of naxx w.o any issues

good times...

[dookieffs]

There was a game that launched a couple years ago that was like this. It was called Wildstar and it's not doing so hot these days. As much as players like to say they want to return to the "hardcore" days, the performance of games that have tried it have showed otherwise.

well WoW has much more depth lorewise vs wildstar dominion and exiles, and we all are familiar with wow story for a long time now, that it expands into a cultural thing, i mean together with whole blizz universe. #loyal#fanboy /10 char

[Maglen]

op, totally agree... i remember going into bwl with nothing but "dr damage" (played a warrior back then) and nothing else...

we didnt even use vent and we cleared everything up to the first wing of naxx w.o any issues

good times...

Not even swing timers for optimal Slam usage? Damn.

[judgementofantonidas]

Yeah, and it's not enjoyable, because of how bad the default UI is.

with the exception of no dbm the rest of my nifty ui addons are completely unneeded. they are simply a convenience to make things easier or prettier. the game can be played without them by even a mildly sub competent player.

[Alvito]

Honestly the amount of times I have been in raids with people with have Bigwigs / Deadly boss and they ignore timers anyway. you do not need the addon it just frees up thinking time.

Spacing and timers are the most helpful things they add. I have know plenty of people that raid and raid at high levels without one of those add ons. They are also always the people that screw up the loose stacking type of mechanics. Most of the features from these add ons you don't need and in many cases people are far to dependent on. At some point if you need an add on to play the game for you why do you play? The add ons I really hate are the Iskar assist or Thorgar assist ones that make it so people never learn fights and don't know how or why things happen.

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How many guilds would have killed M archi without exorsus/WA prior the ilvl buff ?

At the highest levels prior to things being killed multiple times by multiple groups add ons are a must. Most individuals and groups cannot function without them.

[Polarthief]

devs said themselves they tune boss fights harder because people uses those addons, so those who do not use addons get fucked

Source? You can't say shit without giving proof.

Also, fights got harder because if they didn't, we'd still have fights with 0-2 mechanics like Molten Core bosses.

While not every fight needs a trillion mechanics like WoD raids or Yogg-Saron, it's hard to make unique fights after you've done so many things without overcomplicating them. Otherwise, you get boring fights that are primarily numbers-based like Patchwerk/Butcher.

[Hayro1]

It doesn't trivialize the fight.

I don't get why people say it trivializes it yet they might not even have cleared half way through on Mythic yet, I stopped raiding before Blackrock ever came around. If it "trivializes" the bosses....why can't X do Y then? ;]

[cFortyfive]

I don't get why people say it trivializes it yet they might not even have cleared half way through on Mythic yet]

Those usually also claim exorsus was a must have on kormok and Iskarassist offers some tremendous functionality.

[The Flavour Cat]

I don't think it is. The only real basic addons you need are DBM and some sort of damage/healing recount. The only other ones people might need are NPC scan and wowhead looter if they want to contribute to the data uploading there.
Shout if you think I missed anything!

[Jewsco]

I don't think it is. The only real basic addons you need are DBM and some sort of damage/healing recount. The only other ones people might need are NPC scan and wowhead looter if they want to contribute to the data uploading there.
Shout if you think I missed anything!

Even more than dbm I think gtfo is a must. With all the crap going on in fights now it really does help people get out of bad. I like it because th graphics of wow aren't the best so it helps if one wants to be just outside of bad to help not spread it more. It makes it so I can stand at the very edge of bad.

[Raiju]

Those usually also claim exorsus was a must have on kormok and Iskarassist offers some tremendous functionality.

iskarassist is convenient as fuck, not gonna lie. Means I can pay literally 0 attention.

Main thing is radars though.