[BETA] Affliction Warlock Discussion

[Fearsom1992]

[QUOTE=Baconeggcheese;39389575]I don't mind it as much, but I comprehend that blizzard is clearly putting things in the spec that are making us want to maintain UA as a constant dot as opposed to banking and dumping in a window.

People who are thinking UA is supposed to be like CB are thinking of its usage wrong.



UA doesn't give aff burst, unless you consider a 1.5 second cast + 8 seconds of ticking burst.



mm idk about that if u got the rng going for you u can do some wicked dmg with Ua atm... but that is on the hcances of nightfall procs/soul conduct... im not a fan of being a slave to rng 24/7 :]

[wholol]

I don't mind it as much, but I comprehend that blizzard is clearly putting things in the spec that are making us want to maintain UA as a constant dot as opposed to banking and dumping in a window.

People who are thinking UA is supposed to be like CB are thinking of its usage wrong.



UA doesn't give aff burst, unless you consider a 1.5 second cast + 8 seconds of ticking burst.

Yeah though... when you think of UA as a spender it just doesn't feel as satisfying as chunking someone with a CB. There is no visual or anything so its not as visceral.

Tbh it sounds more like devouring plague than CB, although if u stack several UAs you can bet it will cause an insane amount of damage per tick which is bound to force cooldowns.

Hopefully the idea behind UA dealing whatever's left of it's damage if dispelled isn't changed, since no healer would dare dispel several UA stacked unless they want to get one shot, quite literally.

[Fearsom1992]

Tbh it sounds more like devouring plague than CB, although if u stack several UAs you can bet it will cause an insane amount of damage per tick which is bound to force cooldowns.

Hopefully the idea behind UA dealing whatever's left of it's damage if dispelled isn't changed, since no healer would dare dispel several UA stacked unless they want to get one shot, quite literally.

I think the highest i saw was in halls of valor on Odyn i had a 2,228,432 Ua tick but I had soooo many shards this goes back to what I was saying is that as Affliction is right now you are not in control of your character but more like the rng system since all your dmg is in a beefy Unstable this is coming from me doing heroic dungeons but I wanna test it in raids but I can already say Chromatic Anomaly isn't going to be insane for affliction agony 4 little adds and chain UA into the boss.

[nerdzrool]

I think the highest i saw was in halls of valor on Odyn i had a 2,228,432 Ua tick but I had soooo many shards this goes back to what I was saying is that as Affliction is right now you are not in control of your character but more like the rng system since all your dmg is in a beefy Unstable this is coming from me doing heroic dungeons but I wanna test it in raids but I can already say Chromatic Anomaly isn't going to be insane for affliction agony 4 little adds and chain UA into the boss.

Holy shit man you really need to learn how to use punctuation. RNG dependence and not being in control of your character/damage are very different things. You can bank up to 5 shards for damage phases, and on single target you can use effigy/harvest to even out the shard generation.

[Jessicka]

Tbh it sounds more like devouring plague than CB, although if u stack several UAs you can bet it will cause an insane amount of damage per tick which is bound to force cooldowns.

Hopefully the idea behind UA dealing whatever's left of it's damage if dispelled isn't changed, since no healer would dare dispel several UA stacked unless they want to get one shot, quite literally.

I'm not really keen on this sort of playstyle; surely this is what Haunt is for, using Shards for burst? The overlap seems entirely unnecessary. Does the artifact proc that extends UA also 'stack' or is it something that would ultimately cause you to lose damage?

[Fearsom1992]

Holy shit man you really need to learn how to use punctuation. RNG dependence and not being in control of your character/damage are very different things. You can bank up to 5 shards for damage phases, and on single target you can use effigy/harvest to even out the shard generation.

I was using soul harvest it is pretty much mandatory as Affliction to get a great stacking UA and I have been using more of Soul Conduct on ST than Soul Effgy the 30% chance feels better than agony chance to proc a shard .

[nerdzrool]

I was using soul harvest it is pretty much mandatory as Affliction to get a great stacking UA and I have been using more of Soul Conduct on ST than Soul Effgy the 30% chance feels better than agony chance to proc a shard .

In what world does a 30% chance to refund a shard come anywhere close to 100% more shards? The entire idea of Effigy is that it allows us to have agony generate shards from all targets while not screwing our generation on single target.

[Baconeggcheese]

Tbh it sounds more like devouring plague than CB, although if u stack several UAs you can bet it will cause an insane amount of damage per tick which is bound to force cooldowns.

It feels more like DP as well, which is also less satisfying than a CB. Though DP might still feel a bit better than UA because it at least has half its damage up front.

And yeah if you manage to stack them it'll have that effect, but if you manage to just free cast any spender in the game I imagine it'd also have that effect.

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In what world does a 30% chance to refund a shard come anywhere close to 100% more shards? The entire idea of Effigy is that it allows us to have agony generate shards from all targets while not screwing our generation on single target.

You're talking a chance to proc a shard from agony vs the chance to proc a shard from spending one using soul conduit.

Agony doesn't have a 100% proc chance... so saying 30% chance vs 100% more shards is pretty silly as its not an apt comparison.

[nerdzrool]

You're talking a chance to proc a shard from agony vs the chance to proc a shard from spending one using soul conduit.

Agony doesn't have a 100% proc chance... so saying 30% chance vs 100% more shards is pretty silly as its not an apt comparison.

The majority of your shards are going to come from procs off agony, having 2 up increases your chance of generating a shard by 100%, where Conduit has a 30% chance to proc off every shard you have already generated. If you get 5 shards off 1 agony in 60 seconds (estimate), with conduit you'll get an extra 1.5 on average, while an extra agony on Effigy grants 5 more. These are averages obviously, there is always room for good/bad RNG in both scenarios. The curveball here would be harvest, which is 5 guaranteed shards every 2m and is independent of how many agony's you have up. You'll get an extra 1.5 shards each Harvest, on average, from Conduit, which is easily made up by having an extra agony. The question then becomes if drain soul/extra globals can make up for the reduced shard generation, which I don't know the answer to.

So in terms of pure RNG/shards generated, I think it's an apt comparison.

[Baconeggcheese]

The majority of your shards are going to come from procs off agony

And what is the chance agony has to proc a shard? Because that is the number you have to compare soul conduit to.

You can average out how many shards a single agony produces over X time (Chance to proc / tick interval) and then average out the amount of shards soul conduit will produce spending that many shards and it'll be the answer on which one produces more.

I imagine they'll tune soul conduit to produce more for aff if they want it to be competitive, since soul effigy's bonus is not simply shards but also additional damage.

So in terms of pure RNG/shards generated, I think it's an apt comparison.

The way you're trying to frame it is completely off base, hence it not being apt.

[Deleted]

Another Question about UA.

How does UA interact with Buffs? I read somewhere that a 2nd UA adds damage to the remaining UA, similar to ignite, but does a buff add additional damage, like a snapshot or does the buff increase the tick damage after the 2nd UA is added? If that makes sense .

[nerdzrool]

I got a little carried away on the total shards generated. The original statement alluded to our lack of ability to control our damage due to RNG reliance, and personally I feel that additional shards off Effigy greatly alleviates that feeling while Conduit only adds to it. If you're banking to 4-5 shards then spending, conduit will allow bigger bursts from extra Conduit procs while Effigy allows more frequent bursts. It's probably a matter of opinion on what makes you feel more in control, and I think the artifact ability tuning will also play a large part in preferred playstyle assuming it isn't intended for it to have 100% uptime.

[Fearsom1992]

I got a little carried away on the total shards generated. The original statement alluded to our lack of ability to control our damage due to RNG reliance, and personally I feel that additional shards off Effigy greatly alleviates that feeling while Conduit only adds to it. If you're banking to 4-5 shards then spending, conduit will allow bigger bursts from extra Conduit procs while Effigy allows more frequent bursts. It's probably a matter of opinion on what makes you feel more in control, and I think the artifact ability tuning will also play a large part in preferred playstyle assuming it isn't intended for it to have 100% uptime.

I agree the play style is only going to change, but I would like to see our dmg not 50% come from Unstable. Marksmanship and affliction both have the problem of 1 spell being pretty much their whole dps which is where I have the most problems with the classes at the moment on Alpha.

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btw does grimoire of sac have an internal cd? it feels like it during aoe..

[dholland662]

I agree the play style is only going to change, but I would like to see our dmg not 50% come from Unstable. Marksmanship and affliction both have the problem of 1 spell being pretty much their whole dps which is where I have the most problems with the classes at the moment on Alpha.

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btw does grimoire of sac have an internal cd? it feels like it during aoe..

I doubt I need to tell you this but everyone needs to be vocal on the alpha thread?

How obstructive is the CD on Reap Soul? I wish there wasnt a CD to be honest, I feel like it's unnecessarily restrictive but I was hoping for something more like 30 seconds.

[Fearsom1992]

Its not only the cd on Reap soul that is annoying though its also not starting a fight with at least 6souls. Between the shards regen/souls I think affliction is taking fire's place as the "most rng spec" which is pretty absurd.

[garonne]

there shouldnt be an argument of agony vs soul conduit. agony generates shards that aren't there and SC has a chance to refund after the fact. SC is reliant upon agony. the stronger agony is, the stronger SC becomes limited by how fast you can spend said shards.

[nerdzrool]

there shouldnt be an argument of agony vs soul conduit. agony generates shards that aren't there and SC has a chance to refund after the fact. SC is reliant upon agony. the stronger agony is, the stronger SC becomes limited by how fast you can spend said shards.

The argument was Effigy vs Conduit not Agony vs Conduit. The two are comparable if you reduce them to how many additional shards they generate/refund but ultimately they are fairly distinct on account of spells that guarantee shards (Drain Soul, Harvest).

[garonne]

The argument was Effigy vs Conduit not Agony vs Conduit. The two are comparable if you reduce them to how many additional shards they generate/refund but ultimately they are fairly distinct on account of spells that guarantee shards (Drain Soul, Harvest).

ahh, i did misread the first post and thought it was agony vs. SC.

[Fearsom1992]

ahh, i did misread the first post and thought it was agony vs. SC.

Idk which is better tbh SC or SE I tried both and both give the same results over the course of many heroic testing with SC being the more punishing one since if you don't get that 30% chance to gain a shard you passed on the opportunity to get an extra target to dot with SE.

[wooters]

Idk which is better tbh SC or SE I tried both and both give the same results over the course of many heroic testing with SC being the more punishing one since if you don't get that 30% chance to gain a shard you passed on the opportunity to get an extra target to dot with SE.

If the result is fairly the same, id go for SC every time. effigy looks a bit annoying to use, especially without absolute corruption. and the target switching with dots, are after all time "lost" as well. seconds we could spend t.ex doing extra 2-4 ticks with drain life/soul